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Why not two #1 picks for Asante

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by solman, Feb 17, 2007.

  1. solman

    solman Rookie

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    Everyone seems to be very sure that no team out there is willing to part with two #1 picks for Asante.

    I'm not so sure. Its true that in previous years an offer of two #1 picks would have been absurd, but this year is not like past years.

    1. The salary cap has increased by 27.5% in just two years. Unlike past years, when most teams had to restructure contracts and cut players, this year a dozen teams have more than $20M in cap space available. This is despite the fact that...

    2. Teams have already used some of their suddenly abundant cap space to lock up players, and keep them from hitting the free agent market.

    3. Low franchise tag costs, a tight free agent market, and big space under the cap will likely cause a record number of teams to protect their stars by using the franchise tag. Already three teams have done so (equaling last year's total).

    4. In sum, this offseason will probably see the least amount of talent in recent memory to hit the free agent market.

    5. The least talented position in this years FA market is probably cornerback. Nate Clements is the begining and end of great cornerbacks who are available.

    So what is a team in need of help at corner to do? You could try to draft a corner, but it takes 3-4 years for new CBs to get good at reading NFL passing schemes. You could try to trade for a great cornerback, but I don't know where you'd find a team willing to part with one. Alternatively you could spend two #1 picks and sign a long term deal with Asante.

    Now I'm not saying that I think this is a smart move. If BB/SP ever gave up two #1 picks for a player of Asante's caliber, I'd have to cry myself to sleep. But not every team out there is as smart as BB/SP. In fact, a whole lot of them are idiots who have enough stupidity in their pinky to waste two #1 picks without even trying.

    Instead of wasting them and being embarassed on draft day, why not send them to us. You can get a known commodity in Asante Samuel. Asante will help you find a use for all that unused cap space. And you can be sure that BB take good care of those picks for you.
  2. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    Because in today's NFL teams like the Washington Redskins don't win the SB, while franchises who build up through the draft do.
  3. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    There is NO WAY any team trades two #1's for AS. Not even close.
  4. solman

    solman Rookie

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    That was true before the skins began their free agent binge.

    Common sense not withstanding, they still got out their wallet and pumped the market full of stupid.
  5. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    My point was that the Redskins disregard the draft in favor of signing veterans to huge contracts. Their owner has engineered this method and over the past few years its been a total disaster. I don't think teams are going to follow a losing way of doing things. They will be inspired by the Pats and Colts of the league to put the highest emphasis on the draft.

    With that being said, if a team were dumb enough to shelve out two 1st rounders for anyone, Asante would not even be remotely close to the list of coveted players who would command that price.
  6. Triple-T

    Triple-T Rookie

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    Good question. In situations like this I always ask, What Would Bill Belichick Do.

    Can you see the Pats ever trading 2 firsts for any player in the current NFL? It seems to fly in the face of everything we'd expect them to do. If that's the case, it is hard to think any other team would do it. You give up to premium VALUE players for one very expensive player.

    Thinking about it some more...if the BB had the chance to trade two number ones for any player in history, do you think he'd do it to get Lawrence Taylor in his prime?
  7. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan Rookie

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    Rick Mirer

    MeShawn

    Herschel Walker

    etc.
  8. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    Sounds good to me. Bye Asante, love ya and wish you well!:D
  9. DarMan

    DarMan Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    Ok and lets trade a number 1 pick for Seymour and Brady and Warren and Vrabel. Let's get rid of all of our good players so we can have more #1 picks
  10. F0nSY

    F0nSY Rookie

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    #22 Jersey

    :D :D Is it a joke?(no?? :p)

    samuel's going to play in the patriots the next season.He's key in our defense :)
  11. italian pat patriot

    italian pat patriot Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    this is my opinion too
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree, Assante has had a really good year, but he is not Champ Bailey.. do not see anyone giving up two #1's.
  13. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Asante in our defense now is more valuable than a 1st round pick. Same could be said of Branch last year except his agent wouldn't come to the table! :mad:

    So yes I can see the argument that Asante is worth than a 1st round pick in VALUE to the Pats. However I don't see any team giving up 2 1st round picks for him unless it is those crazy Redskins.
  14. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    His value will never be higher and teams will never have more cap room but it still won't happen. Maybe the Pats could get something like a 1st and a 3rd or 4th but I doubt it.
  15. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I agree,a first and third is more like it. Hopefully it would be to a crappy team that has a good chance of finishing in the bottom 10. "We'll take your third this season and your first next year."
  16. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh yeah, in a heartbeat. Same way that he's willing to open the bank vaults for truly rare players like Brady and Seymour. And ANY team without a franchise QB would hand over 2 #1s for a Manning or Brady.

    But Asante Samuel? Nah.
  17. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Let the debate begin! Is a cash payment equivalent to a draft pick?

    Paying franchise money for one player is one thing, at worst you wind up with dead money or an injury settlement. Coughing up two of the more significant team building tools in your arsenal needs more thought - would you give up a potential Richard Seymour and Ty Warren for Tommy or Peyton? Would it be more palatable if they were Graham and Watson?

    Yes, there is the uncertainty factor of draft picks, but there is also the diversification of risk (to use a term my wallet fantasizes over) and that blue chip potential. Bonds of stocks? Given BB's economic thinking as applied to cap management and team building, two #1 picks for a Lawrence Taylor or other impact player would seem to be a difficult expenditure to justify. I might do it for the QB, the LB, probably not.
  18. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think the real question is would a team trade 2 1s for ANY player.
    If that player was Asante Samuel the answer is absolutely no.
    Hell, this is a guy who fans on this board were calling a stiff 6 months ago.
    Samuel has truned into a good corner, but he is not a head and shoulders above the rest kind of guy. I think any team picking a corner in the first round expects he will have a better career than Asante samuel has had/will have.
    (Here again the overvaluation of stats comes into play. If he played exactly the same way at corner, but had 4 Ints instead of 10, fans would be ripping BB for tagging him, and he would be drastically underrated. Right now he is drastically overrated. He played 1000 plays on defense, yet 90% of th eopinion on him is based on 1% of the plays)

    I think very few teams would trade 2 1s for any player. It is easy to argue that you could find a long list of 1s that should have been traded for a good player before being drafted, and in retrospect, there are probably half a dozen teams that may be better today if they traded their 05 and 06 #1s for a player.
    But, in a way you hamstring a franchise by taking away its #1 2 years in a row. Its not just about what the players turn into, there are many other factors. Does it hurt a franchise to be sitting without a #1 pick for 2 staright years? I think it does. How does your long term talent base shape up when there are 2 'missing #1 picks" in it.
    Further, there is the cap to consider. Those 2 players under rookie contracts will be cheaper than the one guy that you have to pay commensurate with someone you would trade 2 1s for. So essentially, you give up some of the future, pay more to do it, and have 1 player instead of 2. Quite frankly, the only reason to do so is if you feel you are bad drafters.
    One final point. I believe successful drafting is 10% making the pick, and 90% COACHING, TEACHING, AND TRAINING the pick. Players come into the NFL far from ready to step on the field and be great. This includes technique, adjusting to the NFL game, preparation, learning the more complex schemes, dealing with not being physically superior to everyone you face, off-season training, and the cerebral part of the game (reading keys, seeing trends, etc) I think the best way to build an organization is to have the best coaching staff. The best coaching staff are also the best teachers. Then use draft picks wisely, but fit them into that system to maximize thier potential. (The difference in physical potential between a 2nd rounder and a 5th rounder is negligible..they just dont have quitre as far to go to get there).
    To me a draft approach says we are going to get good atheltes and teach them how to be good NFL players. Where a FA approach says let me go find guys that someone else taguht how to be a good NFL player.
  19. PromisedLand

    PromisedLand Virtual Internet Person

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    Teams do foolish things though. Let's not forget that former Dolphins GM Rick Spielman gave the Saints two #1s for Ricky Ganga Williams not so long ago.
  20. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    That's nothing. Ditka gave up a total of 8 picks for the right to draft Ricky.

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