Why is Adam Vinatieri Mr. Clutch?

[MarvLevy]

I must have read a dozen articles this week describing Adam Vinatieri as "the greatest clutch kicker in the history of the NFL" or something similar.

How do you make such a determination?

As nearly as I can tell this reputation comes from hitting kicks of:

45 yards to force OT in the snow
23 yards to win in the snow
48 yards to win in a dome
41 yards to win in a dome

Its not that I don't appreciate his performance. But what are the odds of an NFL kicker going 4-0 on those kicks? If all Field Goals were 80% likely to be successful, we'd expect this to happen 41% of the time.

Is there actually something special about Adam V. ?

Or is he a good kicker who happened to have above average luck on the four kicks that mattered most in his career.

But Tom Brady was a clutch QB by throwing screen passes and driving his team 30 yards???

Just because Adam V. isn't on the Pats anymore doesn't take away from what he accomplished. That kick in the snow was unbelievable. Scott Norwood and Buffalo hates Vinatieri.

 

[kriskanos]

Amazing kick in the snow? Oh you mean the Janikowski 50 yarder.

 

[solman]

But Tom Brady was a clutch QB by throwing screen passes and driving his team 30 yards???

Just because Adam V. isn't on the Pats anymore doesn't take away from what he accomplished. That kick in the snow was unbelievable. Scott Norwood and Buffalo hates Vinatieri.

If Adam V misses any one of those four kicks, nobody calls him the greatest clutch kicker ever.

There is no one game you can take away from Brady (while leaving the rest intact) that keeps him from being one of the greatest QBs ever.

This isn't Adam's fault. Few NFL kickers get even four opportunities of that magnitude. But it goes directly to the question of whether he was something special or a good kicker who got lucky. The evidence is consistent with both possibilities.

 

[scout]

his clutch ability was always overstated; yes he made plenty of big kicks, but he missed some very big ones as well. don't give me this crap about "he made the ones that counted" b/c that would imply that he wasn't trying/concentrating/being as clutchy/as hard as he could in the SB vs Carolina, and that obviously wasn't the case.

it just so happened that the ones he made were at the right times; if he was capable of "raising his game to another level" when it mattered most, then there's no way he would have missed a 29 yarder to finish the game this week

Duuuuuuuuuuuude, with the 90 posts. Pass the bong.
The two kicks in the snow were the biggest in NFL history acknowledged by many NFL historians. How clutch was his "chip" shot to beat the Rams with 5 seconds on the clock to win a freakn' SUPERBOWL. Yea, he's overated, wwwwhhhhhhhh.................ughhhhhhhhhhhh.....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[makewayhomer]

Duuuuuuuuuuuude, with the 90 posts. Pass the bong.
The two kicks in the snow were the biggest in NFL history acknowledged by many NFL historians. How clutch was his "chip" shot to beat the Rams with 5 seconds on the clock to win a freakn' SUPERBOWL. Yea, he's overated, wwwwhhhhhhhh.................ughhhhhhhhhhhh.....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

and how do you explain the SB & playoff kicks he missed?

look, he made great FG's, but this is mostly b/c of opportunity and variance. then again, variance is a concept that few people on this board understand

 

[AzPatsFan]

He NEVER missed one when it counted... up until last Sunday. Can you think of a single field goal that he has missed throughout his entire career that cost his team the game?

I think Pete Carroll and KC would have something to say about that...

:bricks:

 

[scout]

and how do you explain the SB & playoff kicks he missed?

look, he made great FG's, but this is mostly b/c of opportunity and variance. then again, variance is a concept that few people on this board understand

One of the highest percentage kickers in the history of the game (Vanderjagt) missed when given the opportunity. That would be defined as a 'choke'. Vinateiri, when given the opportunity to make history, triumphed. That would be called 'clutch'. When a person delievers at the critical, absolute, pinnacle, do or die, point of reference, it is CLUTCH! You can talk variance," a concept that few people on this board understand" (which also will get you considerable attention), or whatever theory you want to apply, the bottom line was, when the game was on the line, AV was money, he was clutch.

 

[makewayhomer]

One of the highest percentage kickers in the history of the game (Vanderjagt) missed when given the opportunity. That would be defined as a 'choke'. Vinateiri, when given the opportunity to make history, triumphed. That would be called 'clutch'. When a person delievers at the critical, absolute, pinnacle, do or die, point of reference, it is CLUTCH! You can talk variance," a concept that few people on this board understand" (which also will get you considerable attention), or whatever theory you want to apply, the bottom line was, when the game was on the line, AV was money, he was clutch.

you mean, except for this week

 

[PromisedLand]

The game tying kick in the Snow Bowl is undeniable. The others ? Good kicker and great opportunity. There's a lot of kickers who who make a mid 40s kick in a dome to win the game; and some who wouldn't. Vinatieri is a good clutch kicker who has had great opportunities - and, as noted, has missed some too. Also the fact that these were win or tie kicks, not win or lose kicks (in the SB) isn't insignificant.

That, to me, is where he made his reputation. Before the Snow Bowl he was just another good to above average NFL kicker. Then he cemented it by the game winning kick in SB36 - which just happened to be the FIRST time in NFL history a Super Bowl had been decided on the last play of the game and the second biggest upset in Super Bowl history.

Once he reputation was set, everything he did after that was seen as a reflection of his greatness. He was only one for three in SB38, yet because the one he hit happened to be the last one it was seen as another great performance and some of his more rabid fans on this site even argued he should have been named game MVP (despite the fact that Brady brought the team back from being tied or behind not just once but twice in the fourth quarter of that game, and set a Super Bowl record for completions).

I agree that sometimes circumstances have more to do with perception than the reality of the situation does, and I feel that while Vinitiari was a very good kicker for us, he wasn't the super star some people want to make him out to be.

 

[80Brown]

you mean, except for this week

Doesn't matter for two reasons:

1. it came during a regular season game - he'll be out there next week as opposed to next season

2. he doesn't play for us anymore

 

[makewayhomer]

Doesn't matter for two reasons:

1. it came during a regular season game - he'll be out there next week as opposed to next season

2. he doesn't play for us anymore

right, I'm glad your definition of clutch is so fungible, and only applies to guys on our team

 

[80Brown]

right, I'm glad your definition of clutch is so fungible, and only applies to guys on our team

The definitions expressed in this thread vary widely....someone even said it wasn't clutch because they didn't do it EVERY time. My original point expressed a few posts back was with the season on the line, the man came through.

 

[pats1yes]

Does any of this matter???

Vinatieri will go down in my eyes as one of the best players for the Pats. He could have blown those SB kicks, but he did not. He may play for the dreaded Colts now, but to me he will always be a Patriot. A guy that won SB's for us.

Overall though, Gostkowski brings quite a bit more to the table. One of the issues with Adam was kick-offs. He did not have the leg to put it in the end zone. Gostkowski wins this one. Gostkowski also seems to be hitting those field goals consistently. He has not been tested in a real "do or die" situation yet, so I cannot comment. I hope he does well.

So, I could be wrong, but it seems like we traded Adam at exactly the right time. But that will never change how I feel about Vinatieri or appreciate what he did for our team.

 

[aluminum seats]

No. No he wasn't. Big misses in the playoffs prove otherwise.

Being "clutch" is all about being faced with the opportunity, and while in New England he was. He was not always perfect in big games and he was not "always money." At the end of SB XXXVIII I was scared ****less. He had already missed one and had another blocked. I was most definitely not positive he was going to drill it.

But back to the opportunity to peform. When Vinatieri was here he took advantage of those opportunities (for the most part), but who's to say others couldn't have taken advantage given the same situation? Look at last year's playoffs. Gostkowski hit a GW against the Chargers, and if the Patriots defense could have prevented the Colts from scoring the final touchdown, Gost would have had the GW against the Colts in the AFCCG.

How much of being "clutch" is being on a team that provides for the scenario to prove your clutch ability?

Obviously kickers need the opportunities to kick clutch kicks in order to be clutch--not sure that advances things any. Bottom line, he made the kicks. You were scared at the end of Super Bowl 38? (I can't deal with all those roman numberals.) OK, sorry to hear that. I wasn't. He made the kick.

For the record, I think he's an ass for going to the Colts. It just doesn't change what he did for the Pats, and putting down what he did here makes Pats fans sound pathetic.

 

[pats1yes]

Uh, well, not exactly traded. He flew the coop. Oh well, I still like you Adam.

 

[pats1yes]

Well, one more point on Goskowski.

Gostkowski was perfect in the 2006 playoffs, connecting on all eight of his field goals, including a game-winning, 31-yard boot with 1:10 remaining to seal the Patriots' divisional playoff victory at San Diego (1/14/07).

Gostkowski kicked the longest field goal in Patriots playoff history when he nailed a 50-yard boot at San Diego (1/14/07).

Gostkowski's 52-yard field goal against Chicago (11/26/06) was the longest field goal in Gillette Stadium history, and was the longest successful boot for the Patriots in four years.

Gostkowski kicked four field goals against Houston (12/17/06), becoming the first Patriot to connect four times in one game since Adam Vinatieri did it on Nov. 14, 2004.

Not bad for a second year guy.

 

[patsfan209]

You were scared at the end of Super Bowl 38? OK, sorry to hear that. I wasn't. He made the kick.

I for one wasn't scared, but a little concerned since Adam wasn't "Mr. Automatic" that year. And I felt SB38 summed up his 2003 season perfectly: a FG kick missed, a FG kick blocked, and a FG kick where its needed the most.

For the record, I think he's an ass for going to the Colts. It just doesn't change what he did for the Pats, and putting down what he did here makes Pats fans sound pathetic.

Yeah, I cannot understand it. I wouldn't care he's now with the Colts. But saying pathetic stuff like "We never needed him at all, anyone can make those kicks..." It just reflects on what type of Pats fan they are.

 

[patchick]

Did I miss it, or has nobody in this long thread suggested another kicker better worthy of the title "most clutch kicker ever"? Adam doesn't have to be perfect to rank #1, he just needs to be better than the next guy. Unless I hear a powerful argument for a next guy, it seems like an easy choice.

 

[gomezcat]

I must have read a dozen articles this week describing Adam Vinatieri as "the greatest clutch kicker in the history of the NFL" or something similar.

How do you make such a determination?

As nearly as I can tell this reputation comes from hitting kicks of:

45 yards to force OT in the snow
23 yards to win in the snow
48 yards to win in a dome
41 yards to win in a dome

Its not that I don't appreciate his performance. But what are the odds of an NFL kicker going 4-0 on those kicks? If all Field Goals were 80% likely to be successful, we'd expect this to happen 41% of the time.

Is there actually something special about Adam V. ?

Or is he a good kicker who happened to have above average luck on the four kicks that mattered most in his career.

Scott Norwood.

 

[gomezcat]

He is clutch because he has made four kicks, in front of a crowd of 80,000, with millions of people watching across the world, knowing that he could be out of a job if he misses. He knows that, if he misses, he'll be remembered as a failure for the rest of his life. Why do most people remember Scott Norwood (which is a shame, as he was usually a reliable kicker for Buffalo)?
I hate the fact that he went to the Colts but there is only one other person in any sport I can think of, who has won a game of similar magnitude with such pressure on him: Jonny Wilkinson of England Rugby, who hit a drop goal with his wrong foot, from an angle left of centre, to win the World Cup.