Why is a top FA LB more likely in 2010?

[RobertWeathers]

Step 1: you have to draft a prospect in order for him to succeed or fail.

Step 2: you have to draft the prospects with the best chance of succeeding in your system.

Step 3: it's not a perfect process, so you have to draft more than one of them until you have an adequate pipeline.

BB has failed at all 3 steps. He hasn't even drafted enough OLB candidates to establish a pipeline, much less picked ones with high chances of succeeding.

Here's the potential 3-4 DE/OLB candidates I can think of in the BB era who were drafted between rounds 1 and 5 and who had anything near the kind of measurables that BB claims to look for:

2000: LaVar Arrington (1-3), John Abraham (1-13), Julian Peterson (1-16), Keith Bullock (1-30), John Engelberger (2-35), Clark Haggans (5-137), Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (5-149)

2001: Andre Carter (1-7), Aaron Schobel (2-46), Derrick Burgess (3-63), Carlos Polk (4-112)

2002: Julius Peppers (1-2), Napoleon Harris (1-23), Kalimba Edwards (2-35), Akin Ayodele (3-89), Dennis Johnson (3-98), Alex Brown (4-104), Aaron Kampman (5-156)

2003: Terrell Suggs (1-10), Calvin Pace (1-18), Chris Kelsay (2-48), Antwan Peek (3-57), Robert Mathis (5-138)

2004: Jason Babin (1-27), Karlos Dansby (2-33), Shaun Phillips (4-98), Jared Allen (4-126)

2005: DeMarcus Ware (1-11), Shawne Merriman (1-12), David Pollack (1-17)

2006: AJ Hawk (1-5), Chad Greenway (1-17), Bobby Carpenter (1-18), Manny Lawson (1-22), Mathias Kiwanuka (1-32), Chris Gocong (3-71), Elvis Dumervil (4-126), Ray Edwards (4-127), Rob Ninkovich (5-135), Mark Anderson (5-159)

2007: Gaines Adams (1-4), Jarvis Moss (1-17), Anthony Spencer (1-26), LaMarr Woodley (2-46), Quentin Moses (3-65), Stewart Bradley (3-87), Brian Robison (4-102), Zak DeOssie (4-116), Antwan Barnes (4-134)

2008: Chris Long (1-2), Vernon Gholston (1-6), Lawrence Jackson (1-28), Quentin Groves (2-52), Shawn Crable (3-78), Bruce Davis (3-88), Cliff Avril (3-92), William Hayes (4-103)

2009: Aaron Curry (1-4), Aaron Maybin (1-11), Brian Orapko (1-12), Brian Cushing (1-15), Larry English (1-16), Robert Ayers (1-18), Clay Matthews (1-26), Everette Brown (2-43), Clint Sintim (2-45), Connor Barwin (2-46), David Veikune (2-52), Paul Kruger (2-57), Cody Brown (2-63), Matt Shaughnessy (3-71), Lawrence Sidbury (4-125)

That's 72 prospects between round 1 and 5 over a 9 year period, for an average of 8 per year. The number of potential prospects has been dramatically increasing over recent years, when our need has been greater. During that period we took exactly 1 of those guys, Shawn Crable at #78 in the 3rd round in 2008.

I count 21 potential DE/OLB conversion prospects who grade out between the 1st and 5th rounds for 2010. But it's hard to win the game if we don't even play. We're not even getting to step 1 in the OLB pipeline process.

Thats most likely one of the best posts that I have ever read. Great research.

What all this tells me is one thing. Clearly, the team needs to recalibrate how is grades out OLBs so they can produce for this team. Perhaps alter thedefensive system so that weakness such as coverage ability and how that skill is projected is weighed less and the ability to put a rush on the QB is weighed higher.

 

[lamafist]

Focusing back on the OLB spot, you can make a case that BB has yet to have a solid ROI on a OLB in the draft or FA.

Oh, absolutely. Colvin + Crable have had injury issues, and Thomas has been a decent starter, but definitely not worth the contract and Burgess hasn't done much. We've gotten some good situational players out of the later rounds, but none of our first order "investments" at the OLB position have panned out.

That's the way things work in the NFL. Even 1st round draft picks are gambles, and there's always health to worry about. The fact that the moves he's made haven't had a good ROI doesn't mean that they were the wrong decisions to make given what we knew at the time.

Thats not the arguement. The arguement is being successful in drafting/signing defensive players who have produced at a high-level similar to Bruschi, McGinest, Vrabel and to a lesser extent, Colvin. Quite frankly, I don't think that is possible, which is why the D is in the situation it is in as it relates to the pass rush. That talent and playmaking has not been replenished.

You think we haven't been successful at signing and drafting defensive players? How about Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Harrison, Samuels, Meriweather, Mayo, and Bodden?

Meanwhile, he's also built a top-shelf offense from scratch.

Yes, there have been a couple swings and misses at OLB, and yes, that's hurting the pass rush right now. So? Nobody bats 1,000 in the NFL, and if you think BB's personnel "batting average" doesn't rank him up there with the best in the game, than you're nuts.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You think we haven't been successful at signing and drafting defensive players? How about Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Harrison, Samuels, Meriweather, Mayo, and Bodden?

Meanwhile, he's also built a top-shelf offense from scratch.

Yes, there have been a couple swings and misses at OLB, and yes, that's hurting the pass rush right now. So? Nobody bats 1,000 in the NFL, and if you think BB's personnel "batting average" doesn't rank him up there with the best in the game, than you're nuts.

My bad. I meant since 2004. I typed it in and stupidly deleted it..... My main point is that we have not "swapped out" the caliber of talent that was in place during the SB years.

IMO I think BB's drafting and FA pickups, which were by far the best in the league have been quite average since 2008.

 

[lamafist]

My bad. I meant since 2004. I typed it in and stupidly deleted it..... My main point is that we have not "swapped out" the caliber of talent that was in place during the SB years.

IMO I think BB's drafting and FA pickups, which were by far the best in the league have been quite average since 2008.

Ok, first of all, let's remember that the '07 Pats were one fluky helmet-catch play away from winning another SB, and, at 19-0, being the first team mentioned in the "best NFL team ever" conversation. And the year before that, they had a 17 point lead in the AFC championship game.

And then last year, the team went 11-5 without Brady. When a team loses the best QB of his generation and still goes 11-5, that's a well-built team.

So between '04 and then, I'm not sure you can really fault BB and his aquisition and allocation of talent. In fact, I think you need to praise him for realizing that the various defense-hindering rule changes were increasing the relative value of offensive talent vs. defensive talent, to be honest.

So sure, if you just focus on the OLB situation, and take it entirely out of context in terms of the other areas of need he was addressing instead, you can find fault. But you could do the same with some unit for every other team in the league.

 

[mayoclinic]

Thats most likely one of the best posts that I have ever read. Great research.

What all this tells me is one thing. Clearly, the team needs to recalibrate how is grades out OLBs so they can produce for this team. Perhaps alter thedefensive system so that weakness such as coverage ability and how that skill is projected is weighed less and the ability to put a rush on the QB is weighed higher.

Thanks.

There's 2 interesting corollaries to that list:

1. The vast majority of DE/OLBs we have taken in the BB era have been late round/UDFAs: TBC (7th, 2003), Jeremy Mincey (6th, 2006), Pierre Woods (UDFA, 2006), Justin Rodgers (6th, 2007), Vince Redd (UDFA, 2008), Darrell Robertson (UDFA, 2008). That's 6 picks in the 6th round or later (2 of whom are still with the team) vs. 1 pick in the 1st 5 rounds.

2. In the BB era we've brought in 4 FA DE/OLBs who were developed by other teams: Mike Vrabel (3rd, 1998, cut by Pittsburgh in 2001); Roosevelt Covin (4th, Chicago, 1999, signed as a UFA); Adalius Thomas (6th, Baltimore, 2000, signed as a UFA); and Derrick Burgess (3rd, Philadelphia, 2001, via trade with Oakland).

So only 1 of 11 DE/OLBs brought in under BB was drafted in the top 5 rounds by the Pats to be developed.

It's strange that BB would be willing to roll the dice on 6 late round/UDFA guys, and spend big money on 3rd-6th round picks that other teams had developed, but not be willing to take the chance at developing any guys in rounds 1-5 himself. The cost of picking up a Shaun Phillips, Antwan Peek, Jared Allen, Chris Gocong, Ray Edwards or Stewart Bradley would not have been that great. We've wasted picks in that range on Gus Scott, Garrett Mills, Dexter Reid, Kevin O'Connell and Cedric Cobbs, among others. And for roughly the cost of a Deion Branch, Bethel Johnson, or Chad Jackson at WR or Marquise Hill at DE (1/4 being a hit, the other 4 busts) we could have had a shot at someone like Connor Barwin, Everette Brown, Clint Sintim, Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves or LaMarr Woodley. The lack of willingness to take a shot at some of these guys is perplexing, and suggests that either BB is way too stringent about who he is willing to pick, that he lacks confidence in his ability to develop these guys, or that he's over-confident about his ability to develop late round guys into successful players.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You are making this WAY too big of an arguement. The thread is about OLBs. You are introducing the entire team-building concept. I urge you to narrow the scope of the discussion. I'll play along in this thread.

Ok, first of all, let's remember that the '07 Pats were one fluky helmet-catch play away from winning another SB, and, at 19-0, being the first team mentioned in the "best NFL team ever" conversation. And the year before that, they had a 17 point lead in the AFC championship game..

And should have 5 SB titles but thats besides the point. No question that BB has done a great job of keeping the team ultra-competitive.

And then last year, the team went 11-5 without Brady. When a team loses the best QB of his generation and still goes 11-5, that's a well-built team. .

Well-built to be competititve, but not championship caliber. The pass D last year was grotesque. Merriweather was a nice pickup. 1 pick of 7 he hit on in 07. Not good. Mayo also seems to be a great young talent. Time will tell.

So between '04 and then, I'm not sure you can really fault BB and his aquisition and allocation of talent. .

Of course you can. See AD. See Burgess. See O'Connell. No ones perfect, but there is plenty of fault.

In fact, I think you need to praise him for realizing that the various defense-hindering rule changes were increasing the relative value of offensive talent vs. defensive talent, to be honest. .

I praise him for keeping the team competitive. I fully understand that you can't win a SB every year.

So sure, if you just focus on the OLB situation, and take it entirely out of context in terms of the other areas of need he was addressing instead, you can find fault. But you could do the same with some unit for every other team in the league.

Out of context? He had an outstanding OLB that got old and missed on drafting talent that could augment the pass rush and missed on AD. I undestand that drafting in the bottom 1/2 of every round will have it's impacts long-term but you can't avoid the fact that if you look at the list that Mayo has provided, he had the opportunity to add a pash rusher or two to this D in the draft and chose not to. That is indefensible.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Step 1: you have to draft a prospect in order for him to succeed or fail.

Step 2: you have to draft the prospects with the best chance of succeeding in your system.

Step 3: it's not a perfect process, so you have to draft more than one of them until you have an adequate pipeline.

BB has failed at all 3 steps. He hasn't even drafted enough OLB candidates to establish a pipeline, much less picked ones with high chances of succeeding.

Here's the potential 3-4 DE/OLB candidates I can think of in the BB era who were drafted between rounds 1 and 5 and who had anything near the kind of measurables that BB claims to look for:

2000: LaVar Arrington (1-3), John Abraham (1-13), Julian Peterson (1-16), Keith Bullock (1-30), John Engelberger (2-35), Clark Haggans (5-137), Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (5-149)

2001: Andre Carter (1-7), Aaron Schobel (2-46), Derrick Burgess (3-63), Carlos Polk (4-112)

2002: Julius Peppers (1-2), Napoleon Harris (1-23), Kalimba Edwards (2-35), Akin Ayodele (3-89), Dennis Johnson (3-98), Alex Brown (4-104), Aaron Kampman (5-156)

2003: Terrell Suggs (1-10), Calvin Pace (1-18), Chris Kelsay (2-48), Antwan Peek (3-57), Robert Mathis (5-138)

2004: Jason Babin (1-27), Karlos Dansby (2-33), Shaun Phillips (4-98), Jared Allen (4-126)

2005: DeMarcus Ware (1-11), Shawne Merriman (1-12), David Pollack (1-17)

2006: AJ Hawk (1-5), Chad Greenway (1-17), Bobby Carpenter (1-18), Manny Lawson (1-22), Mathias Kiwanuka (1-32), Chris Gocong (3-71), Elvis Dumervil (4-126), Ray Edwards (4-127), Rob Ninkovich (5-135), Mark Anderson (5-159)

2007: Gaines Adams (1-4), Jarvis Moss (1-17), Anthony Spencer (1-26), LaMarr Woodley (2-46), Quentin Moses (3-65), Stewart Bradley (3-87), Brian Robison (4-102), Zak DeOssie (4-116), Antwan Barnes (4-134)

2008: Chris Long (1-2), Vernon Gholston (1-6), Lawrence Jackson (1-28), Quentin Groves (2-52), Shawn Crable (3-78), Bruce Davis (3-88), Cliff Avril (3-92), William Hayes (4-103)

2009: Aaron Curry (1-4), Aaron Maybin (1-11), Brian Orapko (1-12), Brian Cushing (1-15), Larry English (1-16), Robert Ayers (1-18), Clay Matthews (1-26), Everette Brown (2-43), Clint Sintim (2-45), Connor Barwin (2-46), David Veikune (2-52), Paul Kruger (2-57), Cody Brown (2-63), Matt Shaughnessy (3-71), Lawrence Sidbury (4-125)

That's 72 prospects between round 1 and 5 over a 9 year period, for an average of 8 per year. The number of potential prospects has been dramatically increasing over recent years, when our need has been greater. During that period we took exactly 1 of those guys, Shawn Crable at #78 in the 3rd round in 2008.

I count 21 potential DE/OLB conversion prospects who grade out between the 1st and 5th rounds for 2010. But it's hard to win the game if we don't even play. We're not even getting to step 1 in the OLB pipeline process.

This list shows a few guys that were instant stars, but almost all the rest were guys that were "coached up". Sadly we have only banana boy Crable in our "to be coached up" column
at the moment.

How many teams are represented on the above list? and how many players did each team take from this list???????

 

[mayoclinic]

This list shows a few guys that were instant stars, but almost all the rest were guys that were "coached up". Sadly we have only banana boy Crable in our "to be coached up" column
at the moment.

How many teams are represented on the above list? and how many players did each team take from this list???????

Well, off the top of my head, for those 72 players:

Arizona (4): Dennis Johnson (3rd round, 2002), Calvin Pace (1st round, 2003), Karlos Dansby (2nd round, 2004), Cody Brown (2nd round, 2009)

Atlanta (1): Lawrence Sidbury (4th round, 2009)

Baltimore (3): Terrell Suggs (1st round, 2003), Antwan Barnes (4th round, 2007), Paul Kruger (2nd round, 2009)

Buffalo (3): Aaron Schobel (2nd round, 2001), Chris Kelsay (2nd round, 2003), Aaron Maybin (1st round, 2009)

Carolina (2): Julius Peppers (1st round, 2002), Everette Brown (2nd round, 2009)

Chicago (2): Alex Brown (4th round, 2002), Mark Anderson (5th round, 2006)

Cincinnati (1): David Pollack (1st round, 2005)

Cleveland (2): Kamerion Wimbley (1st round, 2006), David Veikune (2nd round, 2009)

Dallas (3): DeMarcus Ware (1st round, 2005), Bobby Carpenter (1st round, 2006), Anthony Spencer (1st round, 2007)

Denver (3): Elvis Dumervil (4th round, 2006), Jarvis Moss (1st round, 2007), Robert Ayers (1st round, 2009)

Detroit (2): Kalimba Edwards (2nd round, 2002), Cliff Avril (3rd round, 2008)

Green Bay (4): Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (5th round, 2000), Aaron Kampman (5th round, 2002), AJ Hawk (1st round, 2006), Clay Matthews (1st round, 2009)

Houston (4): Antwan Peek (3rd round, 2003), Jason Babin (1st round, 2004), Brian Cushing (1st round, 2009), Connor Barwin (2nd round, 2009)

Indianapolis (1): Robert Mathis (5th round, 2003)

Jacksonville (2): Akin Ayodele (3rd round, 2002), Quentin Groves (2nd round, 2008)

Kansas City (1): Jared Allen (4th round, 2004)

Miami (0)

Minnesota (3): Chad Greenway (1st round, 2006), Ray Edwards (4th round, 2006), Brian Robison (4th round, 2007)

New England (1): Shawn Crable (3rd round, 2008)

NY Jets (2): John Abraham (1st round, 2000), Vernon Gholston (1st round, 2008)

NY Giants (3): Mathias Kiwanuka (1st round, 2006), Zak DeOssie (4th round, 2007), Clint Sintim (2nd round, 2009)

New Orleans (1): Rob Ninkovich (5th round, 2006)

Oakland Raiders (3): Napoleon Harris (1st round, 2002), Quentin Moses (3rd round, 2007), Matt Shaughnessy (3rd round, 2009)

Philadelphia (4): Derrick Burgess (3rd round, 2001), Trent Cole (5th round, 2005), Chris Gocong (3rd round, 2006), Stewart Bradley (3rd round, 2007)

Pittsburgh (3): Clark Haggans (5th round, 2000), LaMarr Woodley (2nd round, 2007), Bruce Davis (3rd round, 2008)

St. Louis (1): Chris Long (1st round, 2008)

San Diego (4): Carlos Polk (4th round, 2001), Shaun Phillips (4th round, 2004), Shawne Merriman (1st round, 2005), Larry English (1st round, 2009)

San Francisco (4): Julian Peterson (1st round, 2000), John Engelberger (2nd round, 2000), Andre Carter (1st round, 2001), Manny Lawson (1st round, 2006)

Seattle (2): Lawrence Jackson (1st round, 2008), Aaron Curry (1st round, 2009)

Tampa Bay (1): Gaines Adams (1st round, 2007)

Tennessee (2): Keith Bullock (1st round, 2000), William Hayes (4th round, 2008)

Washington (2): LaVar Arrington (1st round, 2000), Brian Orapko (1st round, 2009)

I had ommitted Trent Coles (5th round, 2005, to Philadelphia) and Kamerion Wimbley (1st round, 2006, to Cleveland) form my original list. That brings the total number of players to 74.

Obviously some of these teams drafted players as DEs, but most of these guys would have been capable of playing 3-4 OLB or considered potential conversion projects by teams looking at the 3-4.

Only Miami (0), New England, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Tampa Bay and New Orleans took 1 or less players in this period. The number is skewed for Indianapolis and Tampa Bay because of the style of defense which they played. And Miami had Jason Taylor as a mainstay, who was a terrific 3-4 conversion pick coming out of Akron in 1997.

24 out of 32 teams picked at least one DE/OLB pass rusher in the 2nd round or higher. 15 of those teams picked more than one in the 2nd round or higher.

Hope that helps.

 

[bigfandan]

As pointed out in another post, the rule changes have created a watershed moment in NFL and for Pats. IMHO, with the prevelence of passing interference calls, the relative value of the defensive front seven has increased, not decreased. The line battle is the only place you are allowed to play it rough.

After watching many colts games, we all know that PI calls can be very arbitrary and in fact can been applied unfairly on regular basis. If PI calls were applied fairly, Colts could have easily lost 4 games this year. The league office has always defended clearly incorrect PI calls, essentially giving zebras complete liberty to call it at anytime. This is something Polian pushed for and his team has the built-in advantage now (which is a mockery to the league's creditbility).

Back to ROI, one way to defeat the built-in advantage is to have a monstrous pass rush, making QB throw before the WR getting into the route, making it very hard/impossible for zebra's to call PIs. So in that regard, the ROI of acquiring top-tier front-7 talent (DEs and OLBs especially) increased under the new regime. This is supported by the fact all the top teams now have top-tier pass rush. (see pass defenses of Vikings, Saints, Colts, Iggles, Bengals, Packers, Chargers).

So between '04 and then, I'm not sure you can really fault BB and his aquisition and allocation of talent. In fact, I think you need to praise him for realizing that the various defense-hindering rule changes were increasing the relative value of offensive talent vs. defensive talent, to be honest.

So sure, if you just focus on the OLB situation, and take it entirely out of context in terms of the other areas of need he was addressing instead, you can find fault. But you could do the same with some unit for every other team in the league.

 

[Brady to Brown]

Step 1: you have to draft a prospect in order for him to succeed or fail.

Step 2: you have to draft the prospects with the best chance of succeeding in your system.

Step 3: it's not a perfect process, so you have to draft more than one of them until you have an adequate pipeline.

BB has failed at all 3 steps. He hasn't even drafted enough OLB candidates to establish a pipeline, much less picked ones with high chances of succeeding.

Here's the potential 3-4 DE/OLB candidates I can think of in the BB era who were drafted between rounds 1 and 5 and who had anything near the kind of measurables that BB claims to look for:

2000: LaVar Arrington (1-3), John Abraham (1-13), Julian Peterson (1-16), Keith Bullock (1-30), John Engelberger (2-35), Clark Haggans (5-137), Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (5-149)

2001: Andre Carter (1-7), Aaron Schobel (2-46), Derrick Burgess (3-63), Carlos Polk (4-112)

2002: Julius Peppers (1-2), Napoleon Harris (1-23), Kalimba Edwards (2-35), Akin Ayodele (3-89), Dennis Johnson (3-98), Alex Brown (4-104), Aaron Kampman (5-156)

2003: Terrell Suggs (1-10), Calvin Pace (1-18), Chris Kelsay (2-48), Antwan Peek (3-57), Robert Mathis (5-138)

2004: Jason Babin (1-27), Karlos Dansby (2-33), Shaun Phillips (4-98), Jared Allen (4-126)

2005: DeMarcus Ware (1-11), Shawne Merriman (1-12), David Pollack (1-17)

2006: AJ Hawk (1-5), Chad Greenway (1-17), Bobby Carpenter (1-18), Manny Lawson (1-22), Mathias Kiwanuka (1-32), Chris Gocong (3-71), Elvis Dumervil (4-126), Ray Edwards (4-127), Rob Ninkovich (5-135), Mark Anderson (5-159)

2007: Gaines Adams (1-4), Jarvis Moss (1-17), Anthony Spencer (1-26), LaMarr Woodley (2-46), Quentin Moses (3-65), Stewart Bradley (3-87), Brian Robison (4-102), Zak DeOssie (4-116), Antwan Barnes (4-134)

2008: Chris Long (1-2), Vernon Gholston (1-6), Lawrence Jackson (1-28), Quentin Groves (2-52), Shawn Crable (3-78), Bruce Davis (3-88), Cliff Avril (3-92), William Hayes (4-103)

2009: Aaron Curry (1-4), Aaron Maybin (1-11), Brian Orapko (1-12), Brian Cushing (1-15), Larry English (1-16), Robert Ayers (1-18), Clay Matthews (1-26), Everette Brown (2-43), Clint Sintim (2-45), Connor Barwin (2-46), David Veikune (2-52), Paul Kruger (2-57), Cody Brown (2-63), Matt Shaughnessy (3-71), Lawrence Sidbury (4-125)

That's 72 prospects between round 1 and 5 over a 9 year period, for an average of 8 per year. The number of potential prospects has been dramatically increasing over recent years, when our need has been greater. During that period we took exactly 1 of those guys, Shawn Crable at #78 in the 3rd round in 2008.

I count 21 potential DE/OLB conversion prospects who grade out between the 1st and 5th rounds for 2010. But it's hard to win the game if we don't even play. We're not even getting to step 1 in the OLB pipeline process.

One of the best posts I have ever seen on this site.

Its really a head scratcher. Why will he not use a 1st - 3rd round pick on some of these guys. I understand that selecting them will not guarantee that the player pans out, but its kind of like playing the lottery. Even with one ticket you stand a small chance. With no tickets you CANNOT win the lottery.

 

[lamafist]

Over the time period covered in that list, the Pats acquired Vrabel, Colvin, Thomas, Crable and Burgess, costing the team two 3rd round picks, one fifth, and two of the biggest FA contracts the Pats have ever handed out.

That's a more than respectable amount of resources expended on that position. In fact, I can't think of a position other than DL that the Pats have devoted more to. That it's been more through free agency and trades than the draft is really an arbitrary distinction. Would it make a difference to you if Colvin and Thomas were 1st-day draft pick busts, instead of FA disappointments? Would it make a difference to the team?

The Pats have bought plenty of linebacker "lottery tickets," it's just that Vrabel was the only real "winner." You can find fault with the results, but to say there's been a lack of attention paid to the position is crazy.

 

[Brady to Brown]

Over the time period covered in that list, the Pats acquired Vrabel, Colvin, Thomas, Crable and Burgess, costing the team two 3rd round picks, one fifth, and two of the biggest FA contracts the Pats have ever handed out.

That's a more than respectable amount of resources expended on that position. In fact, I can't think of a position other than DL that the Pats have devoted more to. That it's been more through free agency and trades than the draft is really an arbitrary distinction. Would it make a difference to you if Colvin and Thomas were 1st-day draft pick busts, instead of FA disappointments? Would it make a difference to the team?

The Pats have bought plenty of linebacker "lottery tickets," it's just that Vrabel was the only real "winner." You can find fault with the results, but to say there's been a lack of attention paid to the position is crazy.

I don't agree with all of this attention to the LB position that you claim to see. Nothing on the field, nothing in reserve. Someone must pay attention to this position. For a man who built his resume on defense and LB's in particular its sad that he can't find a LB to save his life.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Over the time period covered in that list, the Pats acquired Vrabel, Colvin, Thomas, Crable and Burgess, costing the team two 3rd round picks, one fifth, and two of the biggest FA contracts the Pats have ever handed out.

That's a more than respectable amount of resources expended on that position. In fact, I can't think of a position other than DL that the Pats have devoted more to. That it's been more through free agency and trades than the draft is really an arbitrary distinction. Would it make a difference to you if Colvin and Thomas were 1st-day draft pick busts, instead of FA disappointments? Would it make a difference to the team?

The Pats have bought plenty of linebacker "lottery tickets," it's just that Vrabel was the only real "winner." You can find fault with the results, but to say there's been a lack of attention paid to the position is crazy.

If that logic were even remotely true, then BB would never draft a QB again because he has had Brady as the starter. Yet BB continues to draft and develop QB's behind his starter.

So why has BB ignored the OLB position in the draft? Yes he had starters in Willie and Vrabel and yes he watched them grow old, yet did not draft ANY developmental players at that position, despite everybody saying it was a position of need for the past half decade.

What is BB's malfunction when it comes to evaluating players at that position? I say this because it can't be the players themselves, because BB has had the chance to draft tons of different type players including several prospects projected to duplicate what Vrabel and Willie brought to the table.