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Why even have a kick-off anymore?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by GrogansArmy, Sep 9, 2011.

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  1. GrogansArmy

    GrogansArmy Rookie

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    Lets just get rid of kick-offs altogether and automatically start the receiving team at the 20 every time. This new stupid rule of kick-offs at the 35 has pretty much killed the special teams aspect of the game. Ok , perhaps not that drastic as special teams are still needed on punts, but tonight's game really annoyed me when watching the kick-offs. In case you weren't keeping track, tonight out of 10 kick-offs, 8 were touchbacks, and one was a squib kick, and one an on-side kick.

    Unless they(the NFL) reverse course, which we all know god-I'm-great-ell will never do, the kick-off portion of football is virtually dead now. And I can't believe more isn't being made of it. Pretty much now unless a team is going for on-sides, or trying to keep it away from a good return man at the end of the game who will probably run it out no matter how deep into the endzone the ball lands, kick-offs are are now... useless.

    This is seriously one of the worst things Goodell has done to the game imo. He's just killed one of the bigger aspects of the game. Even though its only 5 yards, its enough to let every kicker send it out of bounds through the end-zone. We are seeing the death of the kick-off.

    Anyone offended by this, sorry I needed to vent. I'm just really annoyed/depressed that a big part of football has been taken away. I really liked watching returns and sometimes being surprised/shocked when a kick-off produces a great return regardless of which team did it. They're just so much fun and exciting.

    Guess I'll never see that again except on maybe punt returns.
  2. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan Rookie

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    I think a good strategy would be for the kicker to kick it a little higher and have it come down inside the 5, give your team time to get down and try to tackle inside the 10 yard line, also if your down by 4+ points near the end of the game you can hopefully get a chance for a return.
    That said I bet a good percentage will play it conservatively and kick it out of the end zone and gladly take the other team starting on the 20.
  3. GrogansArmy

    GrogansArmy Rookie

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    I don't think tonight is an aberration.

    I think this is what we will be seeing from now on. Unless a team is desperate, they will make sure its a touchback every single time. I mean, why risk a good return, when you know you can set them at the 20 every time? Every team is going to have their best return man back there, why risk a possible great return, when you know if you kick it hard enough they have to start at the 20.
  4. Crazy Patriot Guy

    Crazy Patriot Guy Rookie

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    Obviously the percentage of touchbacks will be much higher, as we saw tonight. However, did you forget the 108 yard kickoff return by Cobb?

    Some returners are going to take chances and run it out. Sometimes theyll be stopped short of the 20, sometimes they will break off big returns. Tonight showed that the number of returns will be reduced. It also showed the threat of great returns is still there.
  5. Ron Sellers

    Ron Sellers Rookie

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    I guess my cable provider must have shown an edited version of the game that was different from the one you saw, because I could have sworn I saw Cobb run a kickoff back for a touchdown, a couple other kickoffs returned, and Sproles run a couple of punts back for big returns.

    I would say that the rumors of the death of special teams in the NFL may have been greatly exaggerated.
  6. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last year only ~1/2 the teams in the league had kickers average >65 yards/kick.

    In other words, not every team is going to be able to put the ball through the end zone, let alone do it consistently.
  7. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The problem with your theory is that Lambeau is very difficult to kick deep in to start with. Last year, there were only 2 touchbacks all year.

    There were 8 in the game tonight alone.

    When you combine that with the fact that special teams usually take time to sharpen up because of all the turnover there in the course of the offseason, and the returners have an edge until that happens, you should expect a lot fewer runbacks, a lot fewer good runbacks, and a lot more drives starting at the 20.
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  8. NEGoldenAge

    NEGoldenAge Banned

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    The reason they won't get rid of kickoffs is because each kickoff allows for another commercial break.
  9. TheSolderKing

    TheSolderKing Rookie

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    bahahaha:rofl:
  10. NEGoldenAge

    NEGoldenAge Banned

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    I wasn't trying to be funny. The NFL is focused completely on money, not the quality of the product. The commisioner needs to be a true fan of the game, not a powerhungry doosh with ties to specific teams.
  11. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

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    last night's KO return for a td didn't excite you?

    wow.....

    a big part of football was taken away?

    wtf...i just saw a kickoff return for a td, if you think something was taken away, it's all in your mind

    if anything this new rule makes some returners grow a bigger set of balls.
  12. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    At least we still have the excitement of the extra point!
  13. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

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    now if you want to rid the game of something, there ya go lol
  14. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady Rookie

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    Didn't Greenbay have a kick-off return for a score?

    It can be done. I'm sure Devin Hester will figure it out if a rookie did and tied for the longest return in NFL history. (108 yards ?)
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  15. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is the original spot the ball was kicked from before they changed the rules about 15-20 yeas ago, i have no problem with it. I never like it being changed in the first place.
  16. Halifax_Pats_Fan

    Halifax_Pats_Fan Rookie

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    ...you mention fan and that is what my comments were in previous threads. We are the fans, and I think a lot of us enjoy the play. As BB said they are more or less eliminating that play from the game.

    I do think though there will be some returners that are gonna take it out. They are just gonna take it out, for whatever reason.

    Percentage wise you are not running as many plays as long, but let's be realistic here. Gunners are still going hard, they are not letting up, both teams are still playing til he takes a knee and even if they subconsciously let up there are chances they could get hurt even worse..not being mentally sharp. Look at Woodhead, not saying he lost focus but he sure got lite up.

    Look, it is bogus. Despise it. It takes away excitement. We are not playing baseball here, we are playing football.

    People are going to get hurt....well duhhhh! Of course they may. Is this something new we are telling the players. There is some level of risk involved.

    It's a pathetic change...
  17. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    The best strategy is to go for the touchback. Giving it to the other team on the 20 is ALWAYS better than giving up 6 pts. If your coverage is GREAT maybe you'll luck out and tackle them on the 15, but if it breaks down, you're giving up a TD. There's no way you trade the possibility of giving up the 6 pts for the possibility of 5 extra yards of field position.

    The kickoff has been 'nerfed' this year and I expect the rule to return to the normal 30 yard next season. Unless this rule change is part of the CBA, and I don't think that it is, the excitement of kickoff returns outweighs the supposed safety of having 5 less yards to run upfield imo.

    LOL, cynical but true.
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  18. Ron Sellers

    Ron Sellers Rookie

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    Somewhat true, as they often have three minutes of commercials before the kickoff and then three more minutes of commercials after the kickoff.

    However, there would still be a change of possession, allowing them the opportunity for a commercial break. If they didn't have enough commercial breaks they could add them prior to the extra point. Or they could do what the NBA does and insert a phony timeout (television timeout) at a certain minute marker of each half if they needed another commercial break - though hopefully things will never reach that point.

    Right now networks are given ten commercial breaks per half; no more and interestingly, no less. One gets used at the 2-minute warning, another at the end of quarter, and then the rest are after a score, change of possession, or injury on the field. My guess is that they could still get their full allotment of commercial breaks even if the kickoff was done away with.

    The biggest thing I don't understand is why they don't go to commercial once they hit their quota of ten. I do realize that the networks want very much for the game to fit within a specific time frame, but when there is an injury, replay or score they could easily fit in one more ad in without extending the actual length of time the game is played, giving them that much additional revenue - or promo an upcoming show of their own, which they love to do. It just seems odd that they would pass on the opportunity and leave that money on the table.
  19. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Deus: The 2010 stat is a bit misleading for two reasons. (1) Mason Crosby is one of the worst kickoff kickers in the NFL. (2) The highest ranked kicker that kicked at Lambeau last year was Dan Carpenter of Miami, and his KOs averaged about 66 yards.

    That said, KOs tend to get shorter as the year gets later, so I won't be surprised if the TB numbers decline (except, of course, for the indoors teams. . . . :rolleyes:).
  20. mgdouche

    mgdouche Rookie

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    If you go back long enough you remember kickoffs from the 40 yard line. Kickers' legs got stronger, and they pushed it back 5 yards, then later another 5. But that was an effort to encourage returns.

  21. JFK

    JFK Rookie

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    Nothing wrong with putting it on the 32 or 33
  22. TruthSeeker

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    Just to set the record straight, there were 12 scores (6 TDs for GB, 4TDs and 2 FGs for NO) and the kickoffs to start the halves for a total of 14 kickoffs.

    I definitely prefer kickoffs from the 30. We'll see if it changes back at some point.
  23. TruthSeeker

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    Actually, the original spot was the 40. I must be showing my age. :)
  24. TruthSeeker

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    As someone who is almost always watching games a little behind live time (and therefore skips through commercials):

    - it's 2 minutes and 20 seconds for action to resume after the "normal" (long) timeout
    - it's 2 minutes and 30 seconds for the kickoff after a score
    - it's 3 minutes at the end of the 1st and 3rd quarters
    - it's a real long time at half-time :D - but not too bad at 300x speed. :cool:
  25. Timbo717

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    Is the quota a stipulation of the contract with the NFL? If so the only reason I can think of is so that the NFL can have some control over how much time away from the games there is. If networks didn't have the quota and starting fitting in commercial breaks whenever they could (even if only a 30 second break here and a 1 minute break there, etc), it would be noticed by the fans how often commercials breaks would come up and in my opinion negatively affect alot of their opinions of the fans in regards to their viewing experience.

    I know it would for me, even if the difference was just watching the play replayed 3-4 times and listening to Collinsworth run his mouth about it vs. watching a 30 second car or insurance commercial.

    In other words, I think if they didn't have the max # of commercial breaks stipulated then the networks would abuse it and the NFL's product in the eyes of the viewer would be affected. All of this is, of course, assuming that it is indeed a stipulation in the contract between the networks and the NFL (which I have no idea if it is or not).
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  26. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There's nothing misleading about it. You should get more than 2 touchbacks by mistake, and the number is the number. However, if you've got the numbers from previous years, I'd be happy to take a look at them.
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  27. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    im ok with it we still seen a 108 yerd kickoff return on opening day so it cant be that bad
  28. ctpatsfan77

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    I don't have the time to look at the opponents' stats, but Crosby himself had 5 in 2009 and 9 in 2008. (OTOH, his KO average decreased ~3 yards from 2008 to 2010. . . .).

    And to be precise, what I meant is that the fact that there were only 2 TBs at Lambeau in 2010 is not conclusive evidence that it is difficult to kick TBs at Lambeau. [After all, if a team's STs suck, then their opponents might return a kick even if it goes deep.]
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  29. Deus Irae

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    I hear you, and reading my post again I see that it came off snarky. Sorry about that. I just meant that I was using that data honestly and without an agenda to it (they used it several times during the broadcast last night). The league expects the rule change to have an impact, which is exactly why they did it. It had an impact when they moved it back, after all.

    People are correct in saying that there will still be a return game. It's going to take a pretty big hit though.
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  30. neuronet

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    One thing it makes penalties during touchdowns mean more. Those typical unsportsmanlike conduct penalties--15 yards back on the kickoff is a big deal as you can no longer bank on the touchback.
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