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Why can't the O close things out?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by R_T26, Nov 22, 2010.

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  1. R_T26

    R_T26 Banned

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    It seems when the other teams qb gets hot Brady goes cold. He tightens up, throws bad balls at feet or trys to force passes. This has been a Brady trend post knee surgery.
  2. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative Rookie

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    I've got the same question, but not focusing it on Brady. They just don't seem to have a counter to the pressure and speed that the defenses bring to those late game, desperate situations. There are new defensive vulnerabilities present but the coaches don't seem to have an answer, and the players seems to have a drop in adrenalin just as the other teams are picking theirs up.
  3. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    Simple. They do not stick to the plays that got them the lead in the first place.
  4. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    They closed out against the Steelers, Ravens, Vikings, Miami, etc., etc.

    Really, the offense has done quite well in 4th quarters this year. Yesterday was the aberration.

    If they call PI when Branch was mauled yesterday on 3rd and short, it's a different story. I'm not too worried about it.
  5. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That was the only bad missed call during the game, honestly. The refs surprised me, overall..
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
  6. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bingo.

    Same thing that happened in the 2006 AFCCG and last year's game against the Colts - - the play calling changed dramatically once they felt the pressure of a comeback.

    Like a turtle retreating into it's shell.
  7. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    2006 ACFFG, the Pats were without their TOP 3 RBs by the 4th quarter. You are also forgetting the bogus "Face guarding call" and the Missed call on Hayden mauling Caldwell in the endzone.
  8. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Completely agree 100%. That was the best ref'd Colts-Pats game in ages. The refs were a non-factor. I'll take that non-call against Branch any day if it means no phantom-PI calls against our guys.
  9. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    On the second to last offensive series in the fourth quarter, the New England Patriots offense should have run the ball on first down.

    1-10-NE 23 (7:51) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short left to 83-W.Welker.

    2-10-NE 23 (7:49) (Shotgun) 39-D.Woodhead left guard to NE 29 for 6 yards (27-J.Lacey). IND-27-J.Lacey was injured during the play.

    3-4-NE 29 (7:20) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short left to 84-D.Branch.
  10. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    I think no matter how much an offense is spreading things around, it's good to have a go-to guy at the end of the game during the "close out" drive. Don't think that guy has emerged yet--my thought/hope would be it becomes one of the rookie TEs.
  11. West Philly Patriot

    West Philly Patriot Rookie

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    yeah I'm with u here as well. The refs didn't influence the outcome of this game which is all you can ask for given the past history of these games.

    I think they lack that go to short yardage back the coaches feel comfortable enough sending up the gut for those tough yards at the end. If you notice on BJGE's second run in that last series the play went off tackle, when the sweet spot all game has been up the gut.

    I just think BB and BOB don't have the trust in BJGE to get those really tough yards when we must have them. Just my opinion
  12. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    You nailed it TIPP. Up 31-21 with 7 minutes left and the ball. I'm ecstatic. Our OL was mauling them. Empty backfield at that point was idiotic. Nice play on 2nd down. Branch held on 3rd down. Should have been penalty. But agree. We should have been running on this possession.
  13. PAPatsjunkie

    PAPatsjunkie Rookie

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    Anyone have video/photo of this play? Someone is trying to tell me that they were both 'jostling' each other for position. From my memory I thought the defender was wrapping up Branch before the ball got there.
  14. Kulko

    Kulko Rookie

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    Hmm wasn't running on first down exactly what put them in the coffin on the next drive?

    In order to have success, you need to keep the defense guessing, so an simplistic answer like "they should have run" is never going to be the correct answer.

    Maybe they should have audibled after seeing the coverage, or maybe even taking a timeout to reconsider their options. But all in all they should just have executed their plays a bit better and they would have won.
  15. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    yeah, but there has become this effect of the pats changing their calls later in the game the last couple of years. look at the colts game last year.

    they're not sticking to the plays that allow them to control the ball earlier in the game.

    I think the defense has evolved to have a better tendency to make the big play, but they should not be depending on that when they have a 17 point lead in the 4th quarter.

    the fact that the colts even had a chance late was pretty inexcusable to me.

    they simply could have gone big and cranked out 4 yards a carry against the colts. that was the high percentage play that eats up the clock.
  16. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    Anyone remember Dillon? If we had a RB like that again we could kill the clock and close things out. BGJE is a solid RB, but if we're honest with ourselves he isn't going to be what we need to consistently get 10 yards every 3 downs late in the game.
  17. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    you have to sell the run in that situation.

    going 5 wide on 1st down at that juncture is silly. asking for trouble is all it is.

    at least with BJGE back there, you can sell the run on a play-action.

    if you ran on those incompletions, you would have taken an additional minute off the clock. if you get a couple of first downs. the game is over.

    the otehr strange thing was with the clock ticking, brady taking snaps with 17-18 seconds still left on the clock.......

    glad for the outcome, but some things seemed strange
  18. vyrago

    vyrago Rookie

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    There was a PI call on the Colts fairly early on and I just could not believe my ears. I thought the ref was confused. In fact the ref mistakenly called a penalty against the Pats that he quickly corrected himself on on a return that also shocked me. Maybe they didn't get Polian's memo.
  19. West Philly Patriot

    West Philly Patriot Rookie

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    This is exactly my stance. I'm big a fan of BJGE, dude is doing a ton with alot less. I think we can all appreciate that as everyday people.

    But this fact along with the trust that a back like Dillon got in those situations to get those yards changes the play calling significantly.
  20. Kulko

    Kulko Rookie

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    Agree on that one, especially the time on the clock.

    But in general, when you want to milk the clock and the Defense is guessing Run, it is actually better to go short pass. When you run twice you are probably sitting in 3rd and 6, have to pass and the Def is blitzing. And the most likely result is an incompletion anyway.
    But when you manage to complete on first down against a run defense you are in 2nd and 3 and have an 80% chance of getting the first with two more runs, or even the option of a 4th down attempt.

    You are probably right, that going 5 wide is taking it too far at this point, but sticking to about 30% passes on first down is probably a lot wiser in modern NFL.
  21. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The offense did its job; 31 points should be enough to "close out" any team. Defending a 17-point lead in the fourth quarter is the defense's job, regardless of opponent.
  22. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Another of these if they just did the opposite it would have worked threads...why doesn't that surprise me, even after a huge win. Some of you seem to be convinced that if every series doesn't pan out it must mean BoB dropped the ball or Brady suddenly lost his touch... The Colts D came out loaded for bear after that score just before the half had them down just 7. That's why we got nothing out of our first posession of the second half. Lucky for us they didn't get anything out of theirs either. Sometimes that happens in these games. It's called playing defense...and making adjustments...

    Edleman catches a ball that the replay showed went right through his mitts on the one (which is why Brady looked so miffed) or Branch gets the PI call on 3rd down which he should have and who knows what you'd all be grousing about today. BB is a conservative coach by nature who prefers to persue strategies that entail his QB not throwing 3 picks including down the stretch in a 3 point game. It's tough to move the chains against 8 in the box and a determined pass rush inching closer other than via the quick pass. You go wide to try and spread that D even though you know you won't have time to go deep. In those situations when the game is in the balance you want the ball in the hands of your best players...and on this team today that's Brady and Branch and Welker. The TE's remain rookies and were busy blocking. Although personally I'd trust Woodhead over BJGE if I had to make an alternate choice...because he gives you more options and he has a knack for making something out of nothing.

    It's also tough to contain Peyton Manning down the stretch playing prevent...yet most coaches including ours persist in attempting to. We were disciplined (except maybe for Merriweather but what else is new) and conservative and stuck to our game plan yesterday and forced Manning to be the risk taker...and he fell into the trap and took a couple too many.

    The thing that irks me about these nit picking second guessing whining threads is if we ran the damn ball three times against 8 in the box and failed to convert you'd all be killing Brady and the OC for not passing...
  23. SanAngeloState

    SanAngeloState Banned

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    I think the problem is they want to run to take time off the clock. So it's predictable.

    Then it's 3rd and 7 and they want to throw short, again predictable.

    So it's 3 and out.

    IN the first half, they'd go play action and get 15 yards at a time.
  24. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    We ran it on the first play of our last possession. Ripped off 14yds. Nothing wrong with trying to run some clock when you are up 10. There's no pressure to score. Just run some clock. It's different once they cut it to 3. You have to keep the ball away from Peyton at that point. But, up 10 I'll try to run. Especially, since we were running the ball down their throats all day when Alge and Crump were out there.
  25. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    Nope!

    1-10-NE 15 (4:40) 42-B.Green-Ellis right tackle to NE 29 for 14 yards (41-A.Bethea, 95-F.Moala).
  26. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I agree with this... and part of that is natural... when you're protecting a lead the last thing you want to do is go pass happy and give them an opportunity for an INT (as we saw with Manning yesterday)

    That can be a killer. The smart move generally is to play a safe game, run, take time off the clock.

    My concern is less about conservative playcalling - I don't want them to be aggressive and high risk when they don't need to be - but more about execution of the short game.

    It would seem that when Defenses are off balance not knowing if the playcalling will be aggressive or conservative, the team does well.

    When Defenses know what's coming they prepare and the Pats are unable to execute. It's not ALL that surprising but the team should look at their execution on those plays and determine how to perform better
  27. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes this.......dance with the girl that brung ya to the dance on both sides of the ball.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
  28. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    How about play-action?

    8 in the box?

    Play-action.

    The real answer to the debate here is simple: MIX IT UP!

    As for the OP, totally disagree with him that it's on Brady. Brady had Freeney come in on him untouched, he threw it at Welker's feet for a reason.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
  29. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Brady locks onto Welker or Woodhead, throws underneath and hopes the receiver can get to the marker. He needs to trust his TEs in crunch time. If Taylor ever returns, there is the big back they can lean on for the power running game. BJGE has been nice, be he doesn't break tackles. And can I add, Sammy Morris looks slooooowww.
  30. PromisedLand

    PromisedLand Virtual Internet Person

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    Exactly. It's called sitting on the lead, and it comes down to coaching strategy, and in this case it almost backfired.
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