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Who is our three weakest starters in order?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Oct 7, 2006.

  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We talk a lot about depth. Let's spend one thread talking about our starters. I assume that all the questionables who reguarlarly start are considered the starters.

    Relative to those who play for other teams, who are our weakest three starters. Or we are not sure of who is the starter, list the position. I presume we have 25 starters, including nickel back, kicker and punter. There are several other Special Teams starters, but they are difficult to compare across teams.
    ----------------------------
    QB
    WR
    WR
    TE
    TE
    RB
    LT
    LG
    C
    RG
    RT
    2 DE's
    NT
    2 OLB's
    2 ILB's
    2 CB's
    NB (nickel back)
    SS
    FS
    K
    P
    ------------------------------
    I will post my opinion later.
     
  2. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    I think the 3 weakest starters are

    Stephen Neal - OG
    Tully Banta-Cain - OLB
    Reche Caldwell - WR

    Its actually a LOT harder to chose the 3 weakest starters than it seems.
     
  3. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Caldwell at WR
    Samuels at CB
    Wilson at FS.....yes Wilson.
    Other then that one season when he was landing massive hits on wide recievers that guy has been M.I.A ever since.
     
  4. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Oh and he forgot how to tackle all the sudden as well.
     
  5. PatsMan26

    PatsMan26 Practice Squad Player

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    Ryan O'Callaghan OT
    Matt Light OT
    Reche Caldwell WR


    Banta-Cain hasn't started in weeks, either way he is more effective then many others.
     
  6. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Brady - QB
    Gostkowski - PK
    I'm not so sure who else might have trouble benching 225 lbs 20 times?
     
  7. SamBam39

    SamBam39 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    not sure I understand what your looking for, but I'll give it a shot:

    c-dan koppen - happy as hell with him comparably. he's been solid.
    rg-stephen neal - he's a good run blocker and overall lineman for 2-3 yrs now.
    lg-logan mankins - veryh good lineman who could become even better.
    rt-nick kaczur/ryan o'callahan - both players seem to get the job done fine.
    lt-matt light - plays the toughest OL position and overall I'm happy with him.

    qb-tom brady - tremendous clutch performer and fiery leader. super talent.
    rb-corey dillon/laurence maroney/ kevin faulk - what's not to like? dillon looks a little more sluggish than 2 years ago, but he's running strong and knock people backwards. maroney looks really really good.

    te-ben watson - has been great at times, but still finding his stride.
    te-dan graham - solid blocker with very good but inconsistant receiver skills.
    wr-chad jackson - we don't know yet. I'm guessing there's a bunch to come!
    wr-doug gabriel - is starting to contribute and so far, looks pretty good.

    k-stephen gostkowski - has shown good leg stength and straight line accuracy. poise was good in the preseason, and has had a bit of a hard time with some field goals but not all his fault and nothing to be concerned about long term. could wind up being a complete stud.
    p-miller seems a solid punter. no complaints.
    ls - lonie paxton - if you don't think about him - he's perfect!

    de-richard seymour - man mountain is a stud.
    nt- vince wilfork - does a great job. I'm glad he's ours.
    de-ty warren - looks even better this year. love his solid play.

    ILB-tedy bruschi - the guys just a baller.
    ILB-mike vrabel - smart, clutch performer - very versitile, a leader.
    olb-rosevelt colvin - another smart player, makes big plays.
    olb-junior seau - nice veteran knowledge combined with passion. brings emotion to the game ala rodney.

    cb-ellis hobbs - kids a little full of himself and likes to spout off, but he's played very well too. could be better, but not bad at all for how long he's been around. I like his passion.
    cb-asante samuel - has looked great at times and very average at times. wish he would take it to another level. good nose for the ball.
    nickel-randall gay/chad scott - gay's gone for the year, but has been a solid third corner. scott hits hard and seems to be doing fine.

    s-eugene wilson - seemed like he was gonna be better when he first started becoming a starter - used to lay more big hits - has been starting to be more invisible lately except when coverage breaks down. hope he can get in a good groove and start playing more aggressively.
    s-rodney harrison - a true leader and nice aggressive leader. not quite back to full speed yet but very happy to have him out there, leading the secondary and providing a presence.

    overall,
    OL - a solid unit that's getting the job done - not worried against any team.

    backs - think we're as talented as anyone.

    ends - need them to get in sync with brady and get some momentum going. still waiting to see what they can do for sure. wouldn't mind if we acquired more talent.

    st- aside from just wanting the ghost to get his feet wet and get comfortable, feel like we'll be solid.

    dl - solid unit that compares with any. our team's not built for a big pass rush so I have to love what they've been doing.

    lb - players may not be as young and mobil as some teams but they're smart and execute BB's schemes to perfection. they play big when they have to.

    cb- wish we had more talent here. feel what we have works well because of BB but scares me that it can become outmatched and people keep getting hurt.

    s-would like to see more hitting and less breakdowns but every fan on every team could probably say that. I have a lot of faith in these guys when we've got big games. Rodney is a huge part of this team's personailty.

    I'd say wide receiver and corner back are our two biggest spots for improvement, with safety and linebacker a place we'd like some young talented depth to reinforce it.

    I think we match up around the nfl very well comparable except for corner and wideouts. but once you factor in BB's schemes, those two spots don't really hurt us that often.

    I think we have an edge at coach, QB, OL, RB, TE, DL, with ST, & LB as good as others.
     
  8. Ungeheuer

    Ungeheuer Practice Squad Player

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    Caldwell for sure.
    O'Callaghan.
    Samuel.


    But this is misleading. O'Callaghan seems merely mediocre on a superior unit. This team has two weak units -- the receivers are poor and the corners can't play on an island. Every other unit -- o-line, d-line, offensive backfield, tight ends, linebackers -- are strengths. I'd say the linebackers are another year of age and declining speed away from becoming a weakness.
     
  9. D-cleater

    D-cleater Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Edit - I changed my vote and its in another post later in the thread
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2006
  10. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think that we are weak (comparative to the league) at:

    CB - I'm high on Hobbs (within our group), but he would be a #2 CB on most teams. Samuel would most likely play nickle for most other teams in the league.

    Answer 1: Samuel.

    WR - This could change and may be changing even now, but Troy Brown and Reche Caldwell have to be two of the least scary starting WRs in the league (and you know I love Troy Brown).

    Answer 2: Caldwell.

    RT- We know how good our guys can be, but comparatively within the NFL we're in a bad boat as it'd appear from the outside. A rookie (O'Cal), a first year player (Britt), and a second year player with an injury bug (Kaczur).

    Answer 3: Britt (assuming he's starting against the Dolphins).
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2006
  11. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nah, this is just mg making another bid to replace David Letterman as the premiere eccentric list maker.
     
  12. D-cleater

    D-cleater Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Hmmm. would have to say

    Wilson - but as a TV viewer I'm making some assumptions here.
    Caldwell - by seasons end he's the #3 or #4 receiver, assuming CJ gets healthy
    For the third, I think its Rodney right now. He seems to have lost a step but I don't think he's full strength yet, so by seasons end I think he'll be one of our strongest players again.

    Not counting the kicker.
     
  13. SamBam39

    SamBam39 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    oh your funny! mgteich does like his lists!
     
  14. rookBoston

    rookBoston 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #12 Jersey

    I would say Caldwell, but I dont consider him a starter. I think he's competing for the #3 spot.

    To me, the three weakest are Samuel, Jackson and... (#3 is really tough)... Harrison.

    Two more that have me concerned, from a roster building perspective, are Seau and Koppen, since the talent dropoff behind them is considerable.

    Lucky we have a dozen draft picks coming up.
     
  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Gostkowski
    Wilson
    Probably Samuel, but there are a couple in this group, the first two stand out.
     
  16. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    i find it interesting no one mentionned a linebacker like seau.

    safeties and cb's are hard to assess blame because of the coverage schemes and when help is expected. i know asante has appeared to have been burned but it was due to safety help coming late.
     
  17. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I wouldn't consider TBC a starter now that Bruschi is back.

    Vrabel-Bruschi-Seau-Colvin
     
  18. Julius

    Julius On the Game Day Roster

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    If this was last year it would be easy Starks,Gorin,Beisal... But this year there is no one who stands out as below average. This may be sacrilege but Rodney Harrison has been playing below par(for obvious reasons). Also Wilson has been less than immpresive. I don't think Caldwell is that bad compared to the other receivers. The only obvious choice is the kicker.
     
  19. shakadave

    shakadave In the Starting Line-Up

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    1. Harrison
    2. Bruschi
    3. Caldwell
     
  20. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This was not an easy exercise for me.

    My three are Samuel, Wilson, and Hobbs. My next two are Harrison and Scott.
    And yes, I understand that Hobbs is an improving youngster.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    DEFENSIVE BACKFIELD (the top 5 on my list)
    If we had signed a #1 corner, all would slide down and perhaps fewer would be on the list. However, Hobbs and Samuel as starting corners are on my list. Wilson has been a relatively poor starter for two years. And yes, as of now, Harrison is not a great starter. Interestingly, no one list Chad Scott at nickel back, but I guess he's an OK nickel back.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    LINEBACKERS
    I think that this one of our strengths: Colvin,Bruschi,Seau and Vrabel.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    WIDE RECEIVER
    I suppose our #2 WR spot could be considered one of the weakest, but personally I don't think so.
    ------------------------------------------------------
    RIGHT TACKLE / RIGHT GUARD
    I think these guys hold their own on a top 5 OL with no stars, and probably no probowlers. Personally, I'm fine with RT. I guess Kaczur's injury clouds the issue some. I meant to consider the questionables as healthy. In that case Kaczur was an OK LT last year. Either he or Light is certainly a reasonable RT. And I like O'Callaghan. If we are considering last week's starters, certainly Britt would make the list.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    KICKER
    I don't agree with those who listed GOST. His kickoffs are worth a lot.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    MY BOTTOM LINE
    Lists work for me in getting opinions from others, and in order to break my long posts in smaller parts.

    As almost all noted, the secondary could use improvment, and is indeed our weak point, and at more than one position. All four starters were mentioned, and I'm sure someone would have list Chad Scott at nickel if they considered it.

    bb has won with weaknesses in the secondary many times before. bb's schemes and emphasis on a quality front seven (ALL STARS, all all-pro quality players) will help the secondary as it has for years.
     

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