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Where were the excellent 3-4 DL drafted?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Fencer, Dec 26, 2010.

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  1. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Obvious question to raise:

    In other years, how high did great-fit Pats-style DL get drafted? (Or great ones in other schemes who would obviously be good in the Pats' system as well.)

    Richard Seymour -- 6, but would probably go higher today as the league has gone more 3-4

    Ty Warren -- 12

    Vince Wilfork -- 21

    Haloti Ngata -- 12

    Suh -- 2

    Peppers (if you count him) -- 2

    It can be argued that the existing talent is enough. But if we think that it's worth the investment to try to get back to the days of Seymour/Wilfork/Warren, then ... well, I'll leave it there, because my list of players is obviously incomplete.
     
  2. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    Casey Hampton fits, too.

    But for a major counterexample, Jay Ratliff was drafted in the 7th.
     
  3. SanAngeloState

    SanAngeloState Banned

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    You're just selecting good players who were drafted high. What about the good ones who were undrafted or drafted in lower rounds? You could probably construct a list of great 3-4 players who were UDFAs. So does that mean we should look soley in that direction?
     
  4. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Aaron Smith - 4th round
    Aaron Keisel - 7th round
    Ted Washington - 25th overall
    Trevor Pryce - 28th overall
    Luis Castillo - 28th overall
     
  5. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Could you? Feel free to try! Highly athletic 300-lb men are generally drafted high, on both sides of the ball. Plus over the past several years, the draft advantage that 3-4 teams used to have in looking for "tweeners," etc. has turned 180 degrees -- there are now so many 3-4 defenses that players who fit the mold are getting overdrafted. (Think Tyson Jackson #3 overall.)
     
  6. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    If we're talking Pats 3-4, might as well look at KC.

    DEs:
    Glenn Dorsey, 1st round, 5th overall
    Tyson Jackson, 1st round, 3rd overall

    NT:
    Ron Edwards, 3rd round, 14th pick
     
  7. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Rather then just limit the search to "excellent," some "very good" players should also be considered.

    Brett Keisel - #242 overall
    Aaron Smith - #109 overall
    Casey Hampton - #19 overall
    Shaun Ellis - #12 overall
    Mike DeVito - UDFA
    Kris Jenkins - #44 overall
    Shaun Rogers - #61 overall
    Ahtyba Rubin - #190 overall
    Kelly Gregg - #173 overall
    Kendall Langford - #66 overall
    Kyle Williams - #134 overall
    Jamal Williams - 2nd 1998 supplemental draft
    John Henderson - #9 overall
    Tommy Kelly - UDFA
    Luis Castillo - #28 overall

    And that's just the AFC.
     
  8. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    In the 80s San Fransisco was constantly drafting at the bottom of the draft yet got guys like Stubblefield and Bryant Young in the late 20s..
     
  9. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #12 Jersey

    Smart teams place a premium on DL talent and that is why a majority of the top 3-4 DL in the NFL today have gone early in the draft.

    That being said however, there has to be talented DL Players available in a draft class to take early in the draft.

    Guys like Suh do not come along every year. The unique thing about this draft is that there is only 1 true 3-4 DE stud and that is Dareus.

    However there are a lot of guy that could project to be 3-4 DE types. Are any worth a 1st round pick? Not in my book.

    So should BB trade up for Dareus?
     
  10. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't even like Dareus. I really want Watt late in the first. Get an OLB at 15 and then Watt at 32 or whatever.
     
  11. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #12 Jersey

    How on earth can you not like a guy that excels playing in OUR defense in the SEC? A guy that plays the run and pass equally well and is the most talented DE that Saban has put out to date.

    If 7th rounder Deaderick can jump from Alabama to starting for us with half the talent of Dareus, just think of what a guy like Dareus could do for our defense.

    His presence at DE along with the return of Ty Warren allows us to play Wilfork FT at NT. And sets up a nice rotation with reserves Deaderick, Wright, Pryor and Love.

    The only knock I see on Dareus is that he is not the fastest guy off the LOS at the snap of the ball. Other than that, he plays the two gap run real well. (Look at the Auburn game last month, Auburn ran away from him all game and only ran at him when they went to an unbalanced line by moving Ziemba over to Mosley's side.)

    He excels as a pass rusher. (Look what he did to Colt McCoy in the championship game last year.)

    This guy is perfect for our defense and would more than fill the vacancy left by Seymour. There is no 3-4 DE in this draft that fits our defense better than Dareus.
     
  12. CTHuskies

    CTHuskies Practice Squad Player

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    Take your word about history, however, I'd look to 2011. If 4 juniors (Da’Quan Bowers of Clemson, Robert Quinn of North Carolina, Missouri’s Aldon Smith, and Nebraska’s Jared Crick) declare as expected, this may be the best class of defense ends we’ve seen in a long, long time. They (maybe 8-10) should be flying off the board in the first round,

    My binky is Cal’s Cameron Jordan. I also like J.J. Watt from Wisconsin and Cameron Heyward from Ohio State at end of first or top of second round. Not as high as some on Purdue’s Ryan Kerrigan or Pitt’s Greg Romeus or Iowa’s Adrian Clayborn but at least two are first round talent.

    Also beyond round one like Oklahoma’s Jeremy Beal, Texas’ Sam Acho, Pittsburgh’s Jabaal Sheard, and Arizona’s Ricky Elmore for Pats.
     
  13. UofApatsfan

    UofApatsfan Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Can't agree with this enough, and I didn't even think about how Deaderick makes Dareus look like an even better pick, you couldn't ask for a much better prospect to use a high pick on as Seymour's replacement. 3-4 DE prospects like Dareus who already have his resume playing 3-4 DE don't come along every year.

    I have no idea why people are so high on JJ Watt. He plays in a conference that's known for being unathletic, he has never played 3-4 DE at the college level, and he simply isn't that talented. Dareus is a much better prospect and is one of the few where it's worth trading into the top 10.
     
  14. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A big part of what made Seymour such a great DL is is height and length. Dareus doesn't have that. He's at least 2 inches shorter than Seymour, and probably more like 3. NFLDraftScout estimates him at just under 6'3", which makes him 3 and a half inches shorter than Seymour. In what I've seen of Dareus, he doesn't seem to have abnormally long arms, so I doubt he's like Dumervil, who has the arms of someone 4 inches taller.

    Deaderick was a 7th round pick, who has upside based on his close-to-ideal size. Dareus would require a top-10 pick despite lacking ideal physical attributes. I'd much rather wait half a round and go after someone like JJ Watt, who would need more time to transition to the scheme, but also has Seymour-like potential, unlike Dareus.

    Dareus strikes me as an ideal 4-3 DT, or a better fit for a 1-gap 3-4 scheme. He'd be a great pick if we were looking to replace Pryor or Wright, not Seymour.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2010
  15. MaineMan

    MaineMan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Except that KC was still a 4-3 team when the previous regime drafted Dorsey. Also, Edwards was drafted by the Bills (4-3) and picked up by KC (4-3) in 2006.

    Jackson is the only one of the three that was actually drafted into a 3-4 scheme.
     
  16. MaineMan

    MaineMan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Size, strength, aggressiveness, attitude, work ethic, football smarts. He already plays like a BB 3-4 DE, whether he's been in an actual 3-4 scheme or not. He bats down a lot of passes at the LoS which may be nearly as desirable in a 3-4 DE as actually getting home on the pass rush. Not sure I'd necessarily spend a first (or even early second) on him, though.

    Probably a moot point, since I don't think he's likely to declare. Probably a lot of the "hot" juniors won't this year because of uncertainty wrt a possible lockout. Lotta folks likely to be very disappointed that the guys they've so heavily invested in personally promoting for the Pats won't even be available. This includes most of the big-name 3-4 DEs.
     
  17. NewFeep

    NewFeep On the Game Day Roster

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    Watch BB take a WR at #15 just to freak us all out of our Pats socks!

    And I might add, I love McCourty but I sure would like to see what Brady throwing to Dez Bryant looks like.......
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2010
  18. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    I suspect that guys who see themselves as having any shot at the 1st round material will leap at the gold ring of the (probable) last draft without a real rookie cap. Meanwhile a guy who is projected to the 4th round might decide he's better off using his redshirt senior eligibility. Yet another factor contributing to a draft that's rich at the top, but shallow.
     
  19. convertedpatsfan

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    #12 Jersey

    True, but Dorsey has settled into the new system. At first, they thought they might have to trade him but he's picked it up.

    They will probably replace Edwards the first chance they get though.
     
  20. ZoisKing

    ZoisKing On the Game Day Roster

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    No Jersey Selected

    Lol-how about drafting Blackmon at #15? That'd be even better. A player with Bryant's talent minus his silly attitude. That's more like a Patriots player.
     
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