Where are our weaknesses on offense?

[Bobs My Uncle]

Playcalling is the biggest weakness on offense as far as I'm concerned. This offense also lacks top end RB talent.

 

[thechris]

I can't see how the offense will be better than last year.

As others have pointed out, the O-Line is below average. The RBs are unreliable (except for Faulk but he's getting up there in years). The WRs are a question outside of Moss. Will Welker fully recover from surgery? Can Edelman build on last season? Does Holt have anything left? TEs are Alge Crumpler and a bunch of rookies.

And finally QB. I may be in the minority, but I feel that Brady is in decline. He looked pretty bad last year. Some of his throws were off and he made some god awful decisions. I reeeaalllly hope that I'm wrong, but I am worried about Brady next year.

All doom & gloom

 

[SHOWTIME15]

There are decisions regarding the last two offensive linemen.

Do we have any real weaknesses, or should we expect smooth sailing for our #5 offense in 2009? Obviously, the tight ends need some time to develop, and perhaps Tate also. But we have the insurance policies of veterans Crumpler and Holt.

Personally, I see this offense as better than 2009, if only because Brady is healthy. Obviously, that should be make a significant difference.

OFFENSE (25)
QB Brady, Hoyer
RB Maroney, Faulk, Morris, Taylor
WR Moss, Welker, Edelman, Holt, Tate, Price, Aiken
TE Grankowski, Hernandez, Crumpler
OL Light, Kaczur, Koppen, Neal, Vollmer, LeVoir, Connolly, open, open

assuming Mankins is re signed, I would have to say at RB. We don't have a RB that scares anyone. I know we rushed for almost 2000 yards last year as a team, but we don't have a running game where we can just kill the clock and push the pile when we want to. It seemed to me we were running the ball last year just for the sake of running, not because we WANT to. We need to have a RB with an attitude (ie-"stop me if you can.")

I always feel Kaczur is a weak spot on the oline.

 

[Brady2Welker]

Koppen, Kazcur, RBs and unknown quality at TE.


Koppen gets mauled by 3-4 NTs, Kazcur needs no introduction, and RBs don't get enough carries to get a rhythm and establish an aggressive attitude.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

And finally QB. I may be in the minority, but I feel that Brady is in decline. He looked pretty bad last year. Some of his throws were off and he made some god awful decisions. I reeeaalllly hope that I'm wrong, but I am worried about Brady next year.

One throw in particular was Brady's pass to Moss for a TD in the second meeting against the Jets. That easily could've been ran back for six. In my opinion, it was one of the dumbest passes not picked off last season.

Because he's in a contract year, this is his make or break year for him. Does the 2001,2003,2004,2007 Brady return or are we going to see the 2002,2005,2006,2009 Brady?

If Brady has a really bad year, do you guys think the Pats re-sign him?

 

[Sciz]

And finally QB. I may be in the minority, but I feel that Brady is in decline. He looked pretty bad last year. Some of his throws were off and he made some god awful decisions. I reeeaalllly hope that I'm wrong, but I am worried about Brady next year.

You're talking about a guy who after the Dolphins loss literally could not reach up and grab his bag out of the top of his locker. Personally, I think that as long as Brady and Moss aren't nearly as banged up as last year, our offense has nothing to worry about.

 

[mgteich]

We all agree that that our runningbacks are at best an Ok bunch, serviceable.
===============

Now lets look at the terrible 2009 OL, the weakness of the team accordsing to many of you all. Brady was injured last year.
================

What you expect the stats to look like with a gimpy QB, mediocre running backs and weak talent on the Ol.
============

THE REALITY
3rd in the nfl in sacks allowed
12th in the nfl in running yards
3rd in the nfl in passing
5th in the nfl in total offense
================

The only place where the 2009 patriot OL (or the 2010 OL for that matter) is a weakness is on patriot message boards.

 

[jmt57]

Until proven otherwise, they are what they were at the end of last year:

- An offensive line that got the QB hit way too much and struggled to open holes needed for a consistent running game.
- Alternate targets in the passing game not named Moss or Welker

The offseasons seems to have provided a lot of potential solutions to the 2nd issue and even more questions on the first.

I agree that we should look to see where we were last year as a start.

Where do you think that the patriots were on the sack stats last year? If the pass protection was so bad, please explain how an injured Brady (with no #3 WR) had the #3 passing offense in the league. We would have been better if Brady were healthier.

Our running game was in the middle of the pack with the two starters totaling over 1000 yards (average 4 YPC), and the two change of pace backs each over 300 yards (averaging 4.8 YPC). The problem if there was one was OL injuries and playcalling.

In my opinion sacks are by far the number one most overrated statistic in the NFL.


The pass rush, and pass rush defense, is much, much more than sacks or sacks allowed. It is just as much about forcing the quarterback to hurry his throw; not stepping up in his delivery; knockdowns, which through attrition affect the QB both physically and mentally; tipped passes and closure of passing lanes; throwing passes away in order to avoid a sack; and poor decision making.


The low number of sacks had more to do with Brady's awareness than the offensive line actually protecting him in my opinion.

 

[glm]

FO has last years o-line ranked fifth in run blocking and secind in pass blocking.

CHFF has our o-line tied for sixth with Baltimore's.

 

[Deus Irae]

FO has last years o-line ranked fifth in run blocking and secind in pass blocking.

CHFF has our o-line tied for sixth with Baltimore's.

Patsfans.com has it ranked 35th. :bricks:

 

[glm]

Patsfans.com has it ranked 35th. :bricks:

I think they stopped liking Brady because he keeps on saying how he's going to hold out or something. :confused2:

We should've kept Cassell.

 

[jmt57]

I can't see how the offense will be better than last year.

As others have pointed out, the O-Line is below average. The RBs are unreliable (except for Faulk but he's getting up there in years). The WRs are a question outside of Moss. Will Welker fully recover from surgery? Can Edelman build on last season? Does Holt have anything left? TEs are Alge Crumpler and a bunch of rookies.

And finally QB. I may be in the minority, but I feel that Brady is in decline. He looked pretty bad last year. Some of his throws were off and he made some god awful decisions. I reeeaalllly hope that I'm wrong, but I am worried about Brady next year.

All doom & gloom

I suppose it all depends on whether the glass is half full or half empty.

QB/Empty: Brady is now injury prone, physically beat up, unfocused and no longer motivated.
QB/Full: Brady is a full year recovered from the knee surgery. He's in a contract year. He knows it might be his last year with Moss - and Faulk, Talor, and others. He wants to prove doubters wrong regarding last season.

RB/Empty: Thy're all old and slow, with the exception of an UDFA who couldn't crack the lineup even with injuries.
RB/Full: They're all in contract years. Prior to last season Taylor averaged 14 games per season for the last seven years.

WR/Empty: Moss is an old lollygag dogfaker over the hill malcontent. Welker will never be able to walk agian, much less catch a football. The rest are the equivalent of high school sophomores in terms of experience.
WR/Full: Moss is in a contract year. He should be healthier than last year, when hampered by back and shoulder injuries. Tate in year two > Tate in year one; ditto for Edelman. Holt has to be better than Galloway's production; same goes for Price versus Aiken.

TE/Empty: Zero experience in the system. A big heavy old guy and two unproven rookies - one with a bad back and the other smoking a bone.
TE/Full: There's nowhere to go but up in every aspect of this position: blocking, red zone offense, moving the chains, receptions and yardage, opening up the field for wide receivers, etc.

OL/Empty: Mankins is a Pro Bowler, we're doomed. Light can't handle speed rushers and Neal is bound to go on IR. Koppen can't handle big nose guards either.
OL/Full: Light is in a contract year. Vollmer will get more reps and build on last season. Kaczur as a guard is better than Kaczur as a tackle. LeVoir is healed and ready to step in at tackle if needed. Connolly is more than capable as a backup and is ready to step up in the interior if needed.

 

[spacecrime]

Until proven otherwise, they are what they were at the end of last year.

Ha ha, not only is every player NOT the same as he was last year (he'll be either better or worse but NOT the same), I don't think we'll see Adalius Thomas playing end or Isiah Stanback playing WR or Hanson punting, so I guess they won't be what they were last year either.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

We all agree that that our runningbacks are at best an Ok bunch, serviceable.
===============

Now lets look at the terrible 2009 OL, the weakness of the team accordsing to many of you all. Brady was injured last year.
================

What you expect the stats to look like with a gimpy QB, mediocre running backs and weak talent on the Ol.
============

THE REALITY
3rd in the nfl in sacks allowed
12th in the nfl in running yards
3rd in the nfl in passing
5th in the nfl in total offense
================

The only place where the 2009 patriot OL (or the 2010 OL for that matter) is a weakness is on patriot message boards.

I disagree. Most members watch the games and form their opinions from what they observe and then post here. The stats that you posted are most likely skewed by a few blow outs against very weak teams.

By the way you list Brady's injury as though it is a mitigating circumstance.
If the offensive line is a good unit Brady would not have multiple injuries that need to heal.

 

[dhamz]

Ha ha, not only is every player NOT the same as he was last year (he'll be either better or worse but NOT the same), I don't think we'll see Adalius Thomas playing end or Isiah Stanback playing WR or Hanson punting, so I guess they won't be what they were last year either.

Not sure what Hanson or Thomas have ever had to do with the weaknesses on offense.

There remains no proven 3rd target in the passing game. There are certainly some guys who have a chance to fill that role. The offensive line without Mankins looks on paper to be worse than the one that got the franchise beaten to a pulp over the last 6-7 games last year.

Those were the weaknesses a year ago. As of now they remain the biggest questions on offense. By Week 1 they may or may not be.

 

[mgteich]

All stats are affected by blowout games. Posters post based on what they see and how they FEEL about what they see. Stats don't get in the way. Certainly, the view of analysts or players from other teams don't matter. The fact that Belichick has had the same line for the past five years somehow is NOT a vote of encouragement or confidence in the OL. Posters KNOW how weak the talent is.

Our OL has been dissed on this board forever, certainly as long as you have been posting. The bottom line is that the OL has been solid for years. It is BETTER than the OL that won the last two Super Bowls. Both Mankins and Kaczur are upgrades over what we had then.

As I indicated, it is only here that Light and Kaczur are mediocre JAGS. Most here would have cut Kaczur rather than extend him to a solid contract and start him. Many wanted to trade Light.

The next 2-3 years will a time for transition on the OL. For this year, we will likely lose Mankins and gain Vollmer on the starting OL, ciompared to where we started in 2009. Perhaps this is a major loss, likely not. It remains to be seen whether any of the late round draftees (4th and higher) end up being more than depth in the next couple of years. I have been one that wanted to draft guards early in the past two drafts. Belichick has chosen to draft later and hope, and then draft higher next year if necessary.

THE BOTTOM LINE

We have one of the BEST pass-blocking offensive lines in the league. It has been top 10 for the entire decade. The way to see this is indeed the stats and the effectiveness of the passing offense. Yes, Brady is a god. But he has not led us to one of the top 3 passing offenses almost every year with OK receivers and a poor pass-protecting OL. That is just NOT the way it is.

Brady knows the truth. Belichick know the truth. Dante knows the truth. The opponents that we have played know the truth. Even analysts and players voting for probowl know the truth. The bottom line is that their truth is different from that of most posters here. We live in a time when truth is dependent on who is telling the story.

Foe me, it is what it is, as a couple of great coaches have taught us.

I disagree. Most members watch the games and form their opinions from what they observe and then post here. The stats that you posted are most likely skewed by a few blow outs against very weak teams.

 

[stinkypete]

All stats are affected by blowout games. Posters post based on what they see and how they FEEL about what they see. Stats don't get in the way. Certainly, the view of analysts or players from other teams don't matter. The fact that Belichick has had the same line for the past five years somehow is NOT a vote of encouragement or confidence in the OL. Posters KNOW how weak the talent is.

Our OL has been dissed on this board forever, certainly as long as you have been posting. The bottom line is that the OL has been solid for years. It is BETTER than the OL that won the last two Super Bowls. Both Mankins and Kaczur are upgrades over what we had then.

As I indicated, it is only here that Light and Kaczur are mediocre JAGS. Most here would have cut Kaczur rather than extend him to a solid contract and start him. Many wanted to trade Light.

The next 2-3 years will a time for transition on the OL. For this year, we will likely lose Mankins and gain Vollmer on the starting OL, ciompared to where we started in 2009. Perhaps this is a major loss, likely not. It remains to be seen whether any of the late round draftees (4th and higher) end up being more than depth in the next couple of years. I have been one that wanted to draft guards early in the past two drafts. Belichick has chosen to draft later and hope, and then draft higher next year if necessary.

THE BOTTOM LINE

We have one of the BEST pass-blocking offensive lines in the league. It has been top 10 for the entire decade. The way to see this is indeed the stats and the effectiveness of the passing offense. Yes, Brady is a god. But he has not led us to one of the top 3 passing offenses almost every year with OK receivers and a poor pass-protecting OL. That is just NOT the way it is.

Brady knows the truth. Belichick know the truth. Dante knows the truth. The opponents that we have played know the truth. Even analysts and players voting for probowl know the truth. The bottom line is that their truth is different from that of most posters here. We live in a time when truth is dependent on who is telling the story.

Foe me, it is what it is, as a couple of great coaches have taught us.

I disagree. Most members watch the games and form their opinions from what they observe and then post here. The stats that you posted are most likely skewed by a few blow outs against very weak teams.

You speak the truth.

The Patriots have had a top 5 offensive line, year in and year out, for about half a decade now. A QB is going to get hit regardless of how good is line is.

The only weakness I see in the line is interior depth. Over the past 3 seasons, we've learned the importance of Steven Neal. With Mankins potentially out of the picture (at least for camp and half the season), this concern becomes magnified. I think Kaczur will be an adequate replacement for Mankins as a starter, but that thins things out big time.

Challenge for the offensive line bashers here. Name 10 tackles the are clearly better than Matt Light. I'll give you a head start...Long, Thomas, Clady, Gross, Roos...maybe Deihl...who else. Is Jason Peters any better than Light? Furguson, nah. There aren't many.

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

I think the oline is pretty good actually. Vollmer should stabilize the right side and then Kaczur would provide better depth at tackle and guard.

On the other hand I have no faith in the RBs to stay healthy. What if Maroney, Morris and Taylor are all injured at the same time? I wouldn't be surprised if it happened. Furthermore, I would be shocked if any of them made the probowl. That's not the case for any other unit on offense. At least the schedule seems favorable to the run game.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that we need better prospects inside.

I have been a proponent of drafting an OG in the first or second round for the past two years, hopefully someone who also could backup at center. The situations with Mankins and Neal have been foreseeable. Obviously, the team has confidence in both Kaczur and Connolly.

Belichick has taken the road of drafting in late rounds and hoping to develop someone or two. We have had Ohrnberger, Bussey, Larsen in the past two years. It seems likely that we will need at least two starters inside by the time the 2012 season starts.

An interior lineman will almost assuredy be a top need going into the 2011 offseason unless we re-sign Mankins to a long-term deal.

The Patriots have had a top 5 offensive line, year in and year out, for about half a decade now. A QB is going to get hit regardless of how good is line is.

The only weakness I see in the line is interior depth. Over the past 3 seasons, we've learned the importance of Steven Neal. With Mankins potentially out of the picture (at least for camp and half the season), this concern becomes magnified. I think Kaczur will be an adequate replacement for Mankins as a starter, but that thins things out big time.

 

[RyanP421]

I agree that we should look to see where we were last year as a start.

Where do you think that the patriots were on the sack stats last year? If the pass protection was so bad, please explain how an injured Brady (with no #3 WR) had the #3 passing offense in the league. We would have been better if Brady were healthier.

Our running game was in the middle of the pack with the two starters totaling over 1000 yards (average 4 YPC), and the two change of pace backs each over 300 yards (averaging 4.8 YPC). The problem if there was one was OL injuries and playcalling.

Measuring pass protection on sacks allowed is an ignorant way to do that.

So if Brady is able to throw the ball away because he has LBs running towards him, we don't count that as bad pass protection because there was no sack, right?