What will Moss cost next year?

[solman]

I see no reason not to be paying $14M-$15M a year to Moss and Stallworth.

We can all decide here that Moss SHOULD be grateful and beg to play with Brady for $5M a year or so. If the FO takes that attitude, he'll be playing for Indy or San Diego or Pittsburgh.

BTW, the one sure thing in MY mind is that Stallworth is staying. We have Stallworth and Welker locked up long term, and we'll keep it that way. As others have said signing Moss will require cutting Washington and a minor Brady restructure, and Moss wanting to stay.

Stallworth is absolutely positively not worth his contract going forward. He is going to have to restructure his contract to stay. I think he'll be willing to do this, provided he doesn't start to chafe from being overshadowed by Moss. Otherwise we should find an alternative #2 receiver. I think that CJ has an excellent chance of filling this role (not as well as Stallworth, but well enough).

Remember, that in 2007 we have an embarrassment of riches. It could turn out to be the greatest team of all time. We won't be able to field a team like this every year. In 2008 we have to replace Bruschi/Seau, half of our DBs, and most of our WRs. Some sacrifices are going to have to be made as we do this. If Stallworth demands nearly $29M over five years, he has to be one of those sacrifices.

 

[solman]

The franchise for WR is only $8 million?

In 2007 it was $7.613M

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The franchise for WR is only $8 million?


Any chance the Vikings make a run at him? They have a different owner and management from his last go round right? They seem to have one of the best running backs of the future and likely want to open the field for him with a deep threat.

Been there, done that. Tavaris Jackson? I don't think so. Guys like Randy aren't interested in a rebuild. He knows he could have as little as a couple of really good years left in that body and he wants to make the most of them with a QB who will hopefully help him and at least not hurt him.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

Stallworth is not worth his contract? Say what? He is worth every penny of a 5 yr, 29mil million dollar deal. That's the market for a guy of his caliber. If he plays a full 16 games, scores 6-8TD's, and winds up with 800-900 yards, than you had best believe he is worth a 5yr, 29 million dollar deal. He is better than Branch(my opinion) and Branch got more. He is way better than Givens and Givens got money in the same ballpark. I guarantee you there will be other teams willing to sign him to a 5yr, 29 million dollar deal. He is worth every penny of that.

 

[workhorse]

In 2007 it was $7.613M

Wow, I would have thought it would have been higher with the money that the top WRs are getting.

Been there, done that. Tavaris Jackson? I don't think so. Guys like Randy aren't interested in a rebuild. He knows he could have as little as a couple of really good years left in that body and he wants to make the most of them with a QB who will hopefully help him and at least not hurt him.

I was just wondering, thinking that maybe he felt he left with a bad taste in his mouth and has unfinished business there still. I agree about Jackson though.

 

[ljuneau]

From my perspective, Randy wants four things, in this order:

1. Win Games
2. Respect
3. Touchdowns
4. Money

With New England and Tom Brady, he's getting #1 through #3. Although he will be able to make more of #4, it is of much less importance. Randy is a pure competitor, money will not draw him away from the Pats. He'll make plenty of money via endoresements - he'll be turning down more offers than he accepts.

Couple the above with opportunities in some Super Bowls, the HOF, and a huge picture in Patriot's Place, Randy is not going anywhere. Kraft and BB will offer a reasonable deal and he will take it. Listen to me now and think about it later: Randy will retire a New England Patriot. For those who have bought a #81 jersey, no worries, they will be good for years to come.

 

[workhorse]

In 2007 it was $7.613M

I think I saw the article where you got that number. Did you see they said it was up 23% from 2006? If it grows around the same rate, that would put that number over $9 million for 2008 right?

 

[everlong]

Yeah, fair point. The earlier suggestion of the Colts is intriguing/scary, although they have a ton of money already allocated to receivers for 2008. I believe Harrison accounts for about $11 million next year ($7.6 mil salary), Wayne $8 million, Gonzalez $1.5 million -- and Dallas Clark has a voidable year on a contract that has been mighty cheap up to this point. Moss would have to come in as a replacement for Harrison, who is 5 years older.

I don't think dumping Harrison for Moss would be a popular move in Indy and I do think Polian takes that into account.

The Chargers and Bears could both use Moss and both have cap room and stability in the organization. The Bears lack the top name QB and are cheap so probably not going to happen.

Admittedly it's a small market that can offer him the right coin plus the right situation.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

Staying with Brady puts Moss on the fast track to Canton. He knows it and thats why he'll sign for surprisingly low dollars.

 

[everlong]

Randy has a memory like an elephant where those who disrespected him are concerned. GB was the team who wouldn't move off a 6th even with Favre throwing bouquets at Randy and grenades at his own FO. And after playing on this team I think Randy is more enamored with legacy going forward.

Fair point on his memory for disrespect. I hope you are correct on his legacy being more important to him at this point than the coin.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Stallworth is absolutely positively not worth his contract going forward. He is going to have to restructure his contract to stay. I think he'll be willing to do this, provided he doesn't start to chafe from being overshadowed by Moss. Otherwise we should find an alternative #2 receiver. I think that CJ has an excellent chance of filling this role (not as well as Stallworth, but well enough).

Remember, that in 2007 we have an embarrassment of riches. It could turn out to be the greatest team of all time. We won't be able to field a team like this every year. In 2008 we have to replace Bruschi/Seau, half of our DBs, and most of our WRs. Some sacrifices are going to have to be made as we do this. If Stallworth demands nearly $29M over five years, he has to be one of those sacrifices.

Not necessarily. Stallworth could be a viable #1 and his deal could be restructured to reflect that "could be" status. We could yet replace Bruschi and Seau with...Bruschi and Seau for less than the 2 are costing this year. And if we extend Colvin the cap savings alone would more than cover that. Gay may not be all that difficult to re-sign since he's playing the nickle with Asante back. And if Seau outpicks Asante he may not that hard to re-sign with $8M already in the bank. I think this team easily comes up with $18M+ in cap space heading into FA with Moss re-signed already in large part given the money already budgeted for Washington and Stallworth on a deal already signed that just perhaps gets a little tweeking that pushes a couple of million in present cap out into those last 3 $4M salary years.

 

[workhorse]

I don't think dumping Harrison for Moss would be a popular move in Indy and I do think Polian takes that into account.

The Chargers and Bears could both use Moss and both have cap room and stability in the organization. The Bears lack the top name QB and are cheap so probably not going to happen.

Admittedly it's a small market that can offer him the right coin plus the right situation.

How much room does San Diego have under the cap? I could see them throwing a lot of money at him. I'm sure they see WR as the only missing piece to put them over the top. They have their QB of the future and a top flight RB to go along with a good defense. It would be a little scary to see what Tomlison would do if safeties have to play deep to respect Moss.

 

[workhorse]

Not necessarily. Stallworth could be a viable #1 and his deal could be restructured to reflect that "could be" status. We could yet replace Bruschi and Seau with...Bruschi and Seau for less than the 2 are costing this year. And if we extend Colvin the cap savings alone would more than cover that. Gay may not be all that difficult to re-sign since he's playing the nickle with Asante back. And if Seau outpicks Asante he may not that hard to re-sign with $8M already in the bank. I think this team easily comes up with $18M+ in cap space heading into FA with Moss re-signed already in large part given the money already budgeted for Washington and Stallworth on a deal already signed that just perhaps gets a little tweeking that pushes a couple of million in present cap out into those last 3 $4M salary years.

Why did the Pats throw so much money at Kelley Washington? I'm just wondering.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think I saw the article where you got that number. Did you see they said it was up 23% from 2006? If it grows around the same rate, that would put that number over $9 million for 2008 right?

Thing about tags is they don't always grow, they fluctuate down as well as up. When Peyton was briefly (exclusively) tagged before he signed his second deal in 2004, he was due to count $18M on the cap. Of course some of that may have been Polian dumping stuff into his voidable years as is his MO... Per the Romo talk the tag for QB's next season is projected in the $10M range. It depends on who the top 5 are and where the truly top paid 5 are in their deals.

 

[workhorse]

Thing about tags is they don't always grow, they fluctuate down as well as up. When Peyton was briefly (exclusively) tagged before he signed his second deal in 2004, he was due to count $18M on the cap. Of course some of that may have been Polian dumping stuff into his voidable years as is his MO... Per the Romo talk the tag for QB's next season is projected in the $10M range. It depends on who the top 5 are and where the truly top paid 5 are in their deals.

How much is Russell getting this season and I wonder how that will effect the tag number? Peyton's number is relatively low this season so he won't bump it up. I think he is just over $8 million. What is Brady's hit?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Why did the Pats throw so much money at Kelley Washington? I'm just wondering.

First off, to tie him up through 2011 if he pans out. But alternatively it sets up room on the books, like a space retainer on a kid with braces, to replace him if something better came up. And they didn't throw much of anything at him yet - just a $300K signing bonus and a $600K 2007 salary as part of a contract they can walk away from for $200K in dead cap. He gets a roster bonus of $4.8M if he's here next March. If he's not, that and his $900K 2008 salary can be used towards someone else, like say Randy Moss...and we've already basically advance budgeted for some WR (or other position player) to account for that much cap.

 

[mgteich]

Why do you think that $900K is a lot of money? That is his 2007 guaranteed money. There are no additional costs to the patriots unless we exercise a $4M option after this season. Washington is well worth the money this year as a STer and as an emergency receiver. He could be cut to bring back Jackson and/or Brown, OR he could be kept until the end of the year as further insurance.

Why did the Pats throw so much money at Kelley Washington? I'm just wondering.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

How much is Russell getting this season and I wonder how that will effect the tag number? Peyton's number is relatively low this season so he won't bump it up. I think he is just over $8 million. What is Brady's hit?

Russell's deal had no signing bonus, opting instead for guaranteeing a little more than half of it. It averages $10M. Bulger's deal averages just under $11M. Manning and Brady both have similar cap hits this season although Manning's deal averages $13M while Tom's only averages $10. I think Eli's deal and Young's deal are likely in the $10 range as well.

 

[workhorse]

Why do you think that $900K is a lot of money? That is his 2007 guaranteed money. There are no additional costs to the patriots unless we exercise a $4M option after this season. Washington is well worth the money this year as a STer and as an emergency receiver. He could be cut to bring back Jackson and/or Brown, OR he could be kept until the end of the year as further insurance.

I was talking about the overall contract size.

First off, to tie him up through 2011 if he pans out. But alternatively it sets up room on the books, like a space retainer on a kid with braces, to replace him if something better came up. And they didn't throw much of anything at him yet - just a $300K signing bonus and a $600K 3007 salary as part of a contract they can walk away from for $200K in dead cap. He gets a roster bonus of $4.8M if he's here next March. If he's not, that and his $900K 2008 salary can be used towards someone else, like say Randy Moss...and we've already basically advance budgeted for some WR (or other position player) to account for that much cap.

I was a bit shocked when I saw the money they threw at him. I moved down to Cincy from Indy several years ago, so I have Bengals on TV here by default. Washington would show a flash here or there, but never really put it all together. That's why I was asking. It makes sense as long as he doesn't get that roster bonus.

 

[everlong]

How much room does San Diego have under the cap? I could see them throwing a lot of money at him. I'm sure they see WR as the only missing piece to put them over the top. They have their QB of the future and a top flight RB to go along with a good defense. It would be a little scary to see what Tomlison would do if safeties have to play deep to respect Moss.

I don't have an exact number but I remember reading something a few months ago and they were some place in top half of teams with the most room looking forward to 2008.

Miguel can certain offer a lot more to a cap discussion than I ever will.