What the Pats have to do in order to beat the jets

[VrabelJr]

The Jets are another team capable of winning solely with big plays. We must make sure guys like Stephen Hill don't hurt us big, you know they'll be looking to throw to him.

 

[PatriotSeven]

The Jets are another team capable of winning solely with big plays. We must make sure guys like Stephen Hill don't hurt us big, you know they'll be looking to throw to him.

Yes which just keeps re-iterating the eternal question...why. can't. we?

If the Jets offense are capable of this with Sanchez, Kerley, Hill, a terrible O line, a terrible run game in no way capable of providing play action, and no time to throw the ball...why are we not able to anymore with Tom Brady as the quarterback and all the time he has?

Why do we need to run 85 plays on offense averaging less points than we were last year? Can we at least all agree we have gone in a very extreme direction offensively that puts way too much pressure on Brady to be perfect every single game?

As your HOF quarterback gets older, you should be able to do more with less. Less plays, get more out of them.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Yes which just keeps re-iterating the eternal question...why. can't. we?

If the Jets offense are capable of this with Sanchez, Kerley, Hill, a terrible O line, a terrible run game in no way capable of providing play action, and no time to throw the ball...why are we not able to anymore with Tom Brady as the quarterback and all the time he has?

Why do we need to run 85 plays on offense averaging less points than we were last year? Can we at least all agree we have gone in a very extreme direction offensively that puts way too much pressure on Brady to be perfect every single game?

As your HOF quarterback gets older, you should be able to do more with less. Less plays, get more out of them.

Because we can't play our own D

 

[PatriotSeven]

Because we can't play our own D

We can't do it against other bad D's either.

We simply have become expert micro managers of moving the offense and the chains 7 yards at a time and still have no down field threat or not interested in finding out. Honestly when crunch time comes, it's not much different than facing a one dimensional run team. Ball is either going to Wes or one of the tight ends, and none of them will be down field. Teams don't have to worry about it.

No doubt in my mind Brady is fully capable of throwing bombs down field to wide open receivers who burn their man....problem is we don't have a receiver that can burn their man on a consistent basis every week and haven't had one since Moss.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

We can't do it against other bad D's either.

We simply have become expert micro managers of moving the offense and the chains 7 yards at a time and still have no down field threat

Their O isn't designed for big plays. What's wrong with moving the ball 7 yards at a time? They still score 30+ a game and have the #1 O in the NFL..

 

[PatriotSeven]

Their O isn't designed for big plays. What's wrong with moving the ball 7 yards at a time? They still score 30+ a game and have the #1 O in the NFL..

I know and that's the problem. To answer your question....

Because of how much more difficult it is to put up those points.
Because of the number of plays it requires to run.
Because of how perfect it requires Brady to be.
Because of the 4th quarter in the Super Bowl last year and against Seattle.

When you need the big play, it's not there.

Us and Green Bay. We are the only 2 teams who are doing this right now. I just don't think it's sustainable when you face a team like the Giants with 2-3 legit deep threats. Both teams quarterbacks have to be perfect over a much larger number of plays than our opponents.

Don't like it.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I know and that's the problem. To answer your question....

Because of how much more difficult it is to put up those points.
Because of the number of plays it requires to run.
Because of how perfect it requires Brady to be.
Because of the 4th quarter in the Super Bowl last year and against Seattle.

When you need the big play, it's not there.

Us and Green Bay. We are the only 2 teams who are doing this right now. I just don't think it's sustainable when you face a team like the Giants with 2-3 legit deep threats. Both teams quarterbacks have to be perfect over a much larger number of plays than our opponents.

Don't like it.

The pats never really had a deep threat in their SB years. They had Givens and Branch. in 07 they had moss...even when they had the deep threat..they didn't win the big one..

 

[PatriotSeven]

The pats never really had a deep threat in their SB years. They had Givens and Branch. in 07 they had moss...even when they had the deep threat..they didn't win the big one..

Completely different teams. They were more capable at running the ball, and our D was always one of the top defenses in the league.

If we had the defense of the 2000-2005 teams I would have no issues with this offense. The league was also not dominated by the type of offenses we see today.

 

[supafly]

Completely different teams. They were more capable at running the ball, and our D was always one of the top defenses in the league.

If we had the defense of the 2000-2005 teams I would have no issues with this offense. The league was also not dominated by the type of offenses we see today.

First off, let me say that I agree with you on some level about the lack of a significant enough vertical threat. Many (including myself) felt that we likely had that guy with the signing of Llyod, but Llyod is here to stretch the field horizontally, not vertically.

Having a successful vertical threat would put a lot more pressure on the opposing defenses to account for him, and would help to give us more options while continually opening up the underneath/mediocre routes too.

As far as the lack of running game however, I disagree with you here. We just had back to back 250+ rushing games heading into SEA's game. Since teams like SEA are not going to allow us to run, we are forcing to pass. The same will likely happen vs STL in 2 weeks from now. We will have to rely on the passing game to beat them. In all reality we very well should have beaten the Seahawks too, and were somewhat successful in many aspects of the passing game. The biggest mistake (besides not running the ball when Brady threw the pick at the 5 yd line) was the 10 sec runoff for intentional grounding at the end of the half.

That said, we should still have a much better running game this year vs most teams that we play, with the exception of ARZ, STL, SEA, HOU, and SF.

That should enable us to take much more pressure off of Brady, as you wish to do.

Nonetheless, I still am clamoring for a better WR downfield option too. It would give us that last step to get over the hump, and make this offense absolutely unstoppable.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Nonetheless, I still am clamoring for a better WR downfield option too. It would give us that last step to get over the hump, and make this offense absolutely unstoppable.

To me..if we had 2 capable CBs that would put us over the hump. A deep WR would help...but lets spend $$ on the D first becasue the O is not the main issue. No need to waste the $$ on a WR when we are still reaching the SB without a deep threat (last year)

 

[PatsSweFan]

Just give Lloyd a couple of chances on deep balls á game, he makes plays.

 

[Joker]

Smash Jumpy Punkchez right in the mouth in the 1st quarter...I mean safety/LB blitz the punk and destroy him...game over...he'll turtle the rest of the game. I call for this every game we play them...the games where we've hit this little egotistical punk in his jacka$$ed mouth early, we've won..and rather handily. Check the records...check last season. Smash Sanchez and the Rats disintegrate.

 

[Ring 6]

Anybody know the status of Pouha and Ellis for this weekend?

If both are out, then the next NT in line is Damon Harrison, who is the only NFL prospect I've ever seen play live, and I claim to be the only amateur draftnik to have ever seen him play live. He was playing against a D3 school on the same day that I had a cross country meet there. He's big, but he's also facing a ridiculous upgrade in competition. If he's playing, then yes, they need to run.

They moved Devito there last week

 

[Pat Riot]

Show up.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ring 6]

Yes which just keeps re-iterating the eternal question...why. can't. we?

If the Jets offense are capable of this with Sanchez, Kerley, Hill, a terrible O line, a terrible run game in no way capable of providing play action, and no time to throw the ball...why are we not able to anymore with Tom Brady as the quarterback and all the time he has?

First of all, because the Jets are NOT capable of it.

Why do we need to run 85 plays on offense averaging less points than we were last year? Can we at least all agree we have gone in a very extreme direction offensively that puts way too much pressure on Brady to be perfect every single game?

Second your entire premise is wrong. We are 7th in 20+ plays and 9th in 40+ plays in the passing game. (the Jets are 21st in both, again proving the silliness of your assumption)

As your HOF quarterback gets older, you should be able to do more with less. Less plays, get more out of them.

We have more plays BECAUSE we get more out of them and stay on the field.

Your argument is horrendous.

 

[Rob0729]

Stephen Hill and Dustin Keller will have great games....thats just about a gimme

Can the defense stop Greene and contain the others?

Expect a wild game,The Pats SHOULD score 24 or more and SHOULD win by 7-10 points.....notice,I said 'SHOULD'

Stephen Hill in most of his games this year couldn't catch a cold never mind a football. The guy has 8 catches in four games played and probably more dropped balls than that. He went two games without a catch even though he was Sanchez's primary target.

Keller played last week and got one catch for 6 yards.

And why can't the Pats stop Greene? Everyone else has except for the Colts that can't stop a runny nose never mind a RB. The Pats have a very good run defense. They are 8th in yards allowed and 4th in yards allowed per attempt. And they have faced far better RBs than Shonn Greene.

Seriously, do you have to negative about everything?

 

[Rob0729]

I expect the run on both sides of the ball will be a key to victory for the Pats.

The Pats have a very good run defense. The Jets are down to Shonn Greene and a scrub at RB. They have no third down RB on the roster who is going to play. Greene is a straight line runner with no wiggle and usually goes down on the first hit. I expect Spikes to have a big game against Greene.

The Pats will run on the Jets. They could be without Pouha and will be definitely without Ellis (his back up). That means their already porous run defense will be be even more porous of both of them are out. I expect the Pats to revert back to the uptempo balanced offense they ran against Buffalo and Denver.

 

[jason423]

From your perspective I would look at 3 things:

1. Vary the no huddle offense- The Jets are a very specialized group that loves to switch things up. I think if you go straight no huddle you will not see Bart Scott, Bryan Thomas, etc... on the field. My assumption is you would get the Wilkerson, DeVito, Coples, Maybin front with Harris, Davis, and Pace plus the usual secondary guys unless they come out with the extra DB in Lankster and stick one of the LBs or DeVito on the bench. I think you will totally throw the Jets off by switching the pace of the offense. Make them think one thing and get them with say Wilkerson, DeVito, and Muir up front with Scott, Thomas, Pace, and Harris behind and then get them stuck on the field. Once you get that its a total mismatch because they cant create any pressure at all nor can they cover anyone.

2. Watch for the trick plays- The Jets base offense should be no worry. Your team hasn't had an effective defense for years in terms of yardage and the Jets have always melted. Last year was just an embarrassment that they couldnt do anything. If there is a game where they have been saving up a different set looks or plays its this one. I think one of the things that has been difficult for Belichick is the few times someone throws something new at him the adjustment time seems too long. I think Sparano looks back at the unveiling of the wildcat a few years ago against the Pats and Ryan the Jets playoff game success as hitting New England with something they were not prepared for. Now I dont know if the Jets have the personnel to do anything special, but if there is a game to see Tebow or Sanchez line up as a WR, take a toss and throw it down the field this is the one. If there is a game with Tebow getting every carry inside the red zone its this one. If there is a game where the Jets come out no huddle with 5 WRs its this one.

3. Dont get cute with the gameplan- Once you get up just take it straight to the Jets and use the strength of your offensive line to run over the Jets and run out the clock. Why give a team extra chances by whipping the ball all over the field to prove a point that you can do it? The Jets best chances to score are most likely going to come off turnovers or punt/kick returns. Slowly move the chains and odds are neither of those comes into play.

There is a reason why New England is such a big favorite this week. Id be pretty surprised if the Jets won this game. Way moreso than any matchup the last few years. Defensively the team has been a little better the last two weeks though Lucks ineffectiveness played a big role in last week being such a blowout. Ryan seemed to make changes to his defensive rotation to get something to happen. But the offense hasnt been any better. They did run the ball well last week but cant pass at all. They may be more dependent than any team in the NFL on field position to score.

 

[PatriotSeven]

First of all, because the Jets are NOT capable of it.



Second your entire premise is wrong. We are 7th in 20+ plays and 9th in 40+ plays in the passing game. (the Jets are 21st in both, again proving the silliness of your assumption)



We have more plays BECAUSE we get more out of them and stay on the field.

Your argument is horrendous.

First of all, I didn't say the Jets are capable of doing that. I was responding to someone who said they can. That doesn't change the fact we can't though.

And you are posting misleading stats. We are not getting those 40+ passes through the air.

We are one of the leading teams in yards after catch.

BIG difference. Everyone knows all of those passing yards are padded with yards after catch.

We don't have a deep receiving threat and it is hurting us. Go back and watch what the 2007 offense looked like when we were capable of doing what I'm talking about.

Here...Advanced NFL Stats - QB Air Yards

We are #4 in total yards after catch.

And it's no surprise to me that Eli Manning is once again #1 in air passing yards per attempt. Peyton at #3. And also little surprise that Wilson is #2. Flacco at #7. All of these guys have given us trouble. Brady is 13th.

And while I don't have the stats, I would bet money, more than half of Tom's interceptions over the past 2-3 years have been on deep passes.

Baltimore in the playoffs last year, his pass to Gronk(with an injured ankle) in the SuperBowl, his first pick last game...I can go on and on. They all came on those 35+ yard passes. Now you can either believe Tom's no longer capable of throwing an accurate deep ball, or it's the simple fact we have no one that can burn their man or go up to get a ball in man to man coverage.

The Patriots have allowed 13 of 30 yards or more, a big reason they're just 3-3. Tom Brady has thrown only five passes for that distance in the six games.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/...d-out-patriots-secondary-still/#ixzz29XUBKWwx

 

[Rob0729]

From your perspective I would look at 3 things:

1. Vary the no huddle offense- The Jets are a very specialized group that loves to switch things up. I think if you go straight no huddle you will not see Bart Scott, Bryan Thomas, etc... on the field. My assumption is you would get the Wilkerson, DeVito, Coples, Maybin front with Harris, Davis, and Pace plus the usual secondary guys unless they come out with the extra DB in Lankster and stick one of the LBs or DeVito on the bench. I think you will totally throw the Jets off by switching the pace of the offense. Make them think one thing and get them with say Wilkerson, DeVito, and Muir up front with Scott, Thomas, Pace, and Harris behind and then get them stuck on the field. Once you get that its a total mismatch because they cant create any pressure at all nor can they cover anyone.

2. Watch for the trick plays- The Jets base offense should be no worry. Your team hasn't had an effective defense for years in terms of yardage and the Jets have always melted. Last year was just an embarrassment that they couldnt do anything. If there is a game where they have been saving up a different set looks or plays its this one. I think one of the things that has been difficult for Belichick is the few times someone throws something new at him the adjustment time seems too long. I think Sparano looks back at the unveiling of the wildcat a few years ago against the Pats and Ryan the Jets playoff game success as hitting New England with something they were not prepared for. Now I dont know if the Jets have the personnel to do anything special, but if there is a game to see Tebow or Sanchez line up as a WR, take a toss and throw it down the field this is the one. If there is a game with Tebow getting every carry inside the red zone its this one. If there is a game where the Jets come out no huddle with 5 WRs its this one.

3. Dont get cute with the gameplan- Once you get up just take it straight to the Jets and use the strength of your offensive line to run over the Jets and run out the clock. Why give a team extra chances by whipping the ball all over the field to prove a point that you can do it? The Jets best chances to score are most likely going to come off turnovers or punt/kick returns. Slowly move the chains and odds are neither of those comes into play.

There is a reason why New England is such a big favorite this week. Id be pretty surprised if the Jets won this game. Way moreso than any matchup the last few years. Defensively the team has been a little better the last two weeks though Lucks ineffectiveness played a big role in last week being such a blowout. Ryan seemed to make changes to his defensive rotation to get something to happen. But the offense hasnt been any better. They did run the ball well last week but cant pass at all. They may be more dependent than any team in the NFL on field position to score.

Thanks for the Jets' perspective input jason. A few things:

• I personally would be surprised to see the young guys replacing the old guys on defense. Coples and Davis haven't been getting a lot of playing time this year and the uptempo stuff might confuse them. Coples' questions about conditioning will also come into play here. Then again, older, slower guys like Scott and Thomas may struggle more.
• I am surprised how often the Jets have caught teams off guard with the fake punts. It is an advantage that teams have to prepare for it every week, but every time they have run it this year (three times by my count) they catch the opposing team sleeping.
• I felt the Jets were so effective at shutting down Luck is because he has the rookie tendency of going to his favorite receiver too much. He has leaned on Reggie Wayne too much this season. The Jets were effective in taking him away from Luck and it make Luck turn into an unseasoned rookie. Luckily for the Pats, they have too many weapons and Cromartie doesn't match up nearly as well against him as he does Wayne or Andre Johnson the week before.
• Gruden may have been right when he said that the Jets were forced to pull out their bag of tricks vs. the Texans that they were saving for the Pats. I don't know how many more tricks Ryan, Sporano, and Westoff have up their sleeves.