West Virginia OLB/DE Bruce Irvin

[JoshScottWV]

And I cant stress how ignorant this whole arrest thing was. He was walking down the street, he was swinging his arms, and knocked a car topper sign off. He leaned over and picked it up. The driver knew it was an accident. There was a young cop in town that tried to make a big deal out of it.

He didnt destroy a sign. He wasnt drunk or disorderly.

I have been around him quite a bit now and would have no problem leaving my 3 yr old daughter in his company. He is a very polite and respectful. Not to mention he went from being on the streets in Atlanta to a college graduate that has earned 2 degrees.

Some team will take him first round to keep another team from being able to snag him in the 2nd.

 

[Off The Grid]

All of what you're saying makes sense.

And there is no more FANATICAL Bruce Irvin fan in the GALAXY...than me.

But I must say that these two posts of yours come across as kind of...defensive.

You're not necessarily doing him a Service, is what I'm saying.

 

[ZoisKing]

Bruce is an intriguing prospect for sure, but I doubt he goes higher than late second. Teams want multifaceted guys they can count on with the value of those picks.

BTW OTG, I love that video sig you have! Last Pats draftee I can remember jumping off the couch for.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

I'm far more impressed w. Julian Miller.

 

[State]

Yes I just signed up on this site. Yes Bruce Irvin is the only reason I am posting on this site.

First I am a die hard WVU fan.
Second I know Bruce personally. I own and maintain bruceirvin.net his fan site.

Bruce is not a one trick pony. In 2010 he played on a top 10 defense. He played in a 3-3-5. Our defense that we ran under Jeff Casteel was about gap assignment, you had a gap to protect. If the QB/RB/etc came through your gap you got them, if not someone else made the play. Bruce came in on obvious passing downs in what we called the Swat package. it was essentially a 4 man front. All he was asked to do was get after the QB. He had 14.5 sacks.

Fast forward to 2011. He was made a full time DE. Bruce is undersized to be a DE in a 3 man front. Had we ran a 4 man front or more of our SWAT package he would have had a repeat of his junior year. He was double and triple teamed all year and still had 8.5 sacks.

He ran a 4.43 at the combine but was given the "official" time of 4.5.

The last is a very good point, Josh. I love how persuasive you are--your passion is coming through, because you know this guy is going to light up the NFL and yet everyone is living in the Matrix dreaming of that tub of goo Dontari Poe. He ran a 4.5, then did it again and ran a 4.43. So why is he given the slower time?

The first time I took the SATs, I was ill and ended up putting my head on the desk and bombed it. I took it another time with a party hangover and did really well. It's a good thing the Bruce Irvin Combine rules didn't apply for me.

And in his personal workouts he's duplicating the low 4.4 times. Teams are drooling over this kid--I think for Lovie Smith it's not even a figure of speech--which is why the Pats will likely trade down at #27 and, if the guys they hope for aren't there at #31, they'll take Irvin, who is clearly a first round talent.

And unlike Janoris Jenkins, he's not stupid pothead. And unlike D. Poe he's actually a football player.

He'll come in on obvious passing situation to replace Carter. And we'll have to watch what he does on slow-motion replay 'cuz he'll be so fast in real time you'll think he's a vampire going after human blood.

 

[Urgent]

Speed is great to have. The Patriots need more speed.

But speed doesn't always equate to on-field production in the NFL.

The fastest OLB in the 2010 draft was Dekoda Watson with a 4.43, who has one sack through two seasons.

The fastest OLB in the 2011 draft was Dontay Moch with a 4.44, who has no stats yet.

If we want speed, we should trade with Miami for Gary Guyton.

My other issue here is with judgement. Presumably Irvin spends the Combine and his Pro Day interviewing with teams, reassuring them that the days of dropping out of school and getting arrested are behind him, and then the gets arrested the day after his Pro Day.

I see the story above that he was 'just swinging his arms' and if that is the case, it's hard to understand how he was arrested. Was the car parked sideways on its door, with the sign leaning into the sidewalk?

That's sort of like explaining a Janoris Jenkins incident as "I tripped, and as I was stumbling I gasped, and a marijuana cigar that someone tossed out of the third floor above me fell into my mouth, and I tried to clamp my lips closed to prevent it from entering my mouth when I suddenly breathed in."

Maybe, and maybe he's just really unlucky and bad things just keep happening to him. Do you want to gamble on that bad luck high in the draft?

 

[VrabelJr]

I don't think Irvin has character issues at this point in his life. I do think he is this draft's Aaron Maybin though in that he is a 3rd down player only.

 

[borg]

Finally caught the game tapes.....crazy good body control....just a great athlete with a great motor. I see a long NFL career for him as a 3rd down specialist and special teamer....but his lack of size will be a problem. He seems athletic enough to cover TEs on passing plays but not stout enough to hold ground vs TEs on running plays. Athletic tackles just swallowed him up. If BB is trying to replace Guyton with a better athlete, Irvin easily wins that matchup. Just looking at Irvin's lateral quickness alone makes me drool....but he will be a project that needs a few years to learn beyond two hands on the ground. No way BB goes #1 with him. He uses #2's for great athlete projects. Irvin seems a luxory that BB may feel is worth one of the extra chips he has at his disposal. Irvin would certainly speed up that brutally slow LB corp the Pats field each week.

BB used the 2011 draft as a long term roster build on offense.....maybe he grabs a few D guys with the long term future in mind this draft. BB may possibly grab the prototype DE/OLB in the first, and a specialist in the second.......kinda like the 2010 TE draft with Gronk and Hernandez. For the first time....I can emphatically state....BB will draft a pass rusher this draft....or at least trade a pick for a vet....maybe Carter is still in play...but he doesn't address the future....and sticking a thumb into the leak every year has to come to an end....doesn't it.

 

[captain stone]

And unlike Janoris Jenkins, he's not a stupid pothead.

Jenkins isn't stupid because he's a pothead; otherwise, what does that make Aaron Hernandez?
Jenkins is stupid because he has fathered multiple children by multiple women. Now, maybe
he was baked during those times & kept forgetting to strap on the ol' helmet...

 

[UK_Pat37]

I don't think Irvin has character issues at this point in his life. I do think he is this draft's Aaron Maybin though in that he is a 3rd down player only.

I agree with this. Bruce Irvin will be a situational pass rusher at best. He wouldn't be an OLB in the Pats 3-4 system if they go back to it as he's not bulky enough. I'd be interested to see if some teams would test this kid out as a LB in a 4-3 scheme.

Could he play 'elephant' in the Pats scheme? Potentially yes.

Not a first round talent. Barely scrapes the second round for me.

 

[iapatsfan]

I agree with this. Bruce Irvin will be a situational pass rusher at best. He wouldn't be an OLB in the Pats 3-4 system if they go back to it as he's not bulky enough. I'd be interested to see if some teams would test this kid out as a LB in a 4-3 scheme.

Could he play 'elephant' in the Pats scheme? Potentially yes.

Not a first round talent. Barely scrapes the second round for me.

Teams threw on the Patriots 30% more than they ran on them last season. It's not just the Pats either. The NFL as a whole almost runs 2 passing plays to every running play. What is a "situational pass rusher" when teams pass 60% of the time? In today's NFL pass rushers like Bruce Irvin are needed a lot more often than the traditional "edge setters". I've mentioned it twice in this thread, and I'll mention it again; Today's "edge setters" need to be the "situational" players of the modern day NFL. When you are needed on almost 2/3 of the plays, you're no longer a situational player. How many "edge setters" do the Giants have in their front 7? With rules changes favoring WRs and QBs you have to have superb athletes rushing the QB in order to make them uncomfortable. Without these types of players, guys like Chad Henne and Vince Young throw for 400 on you.

This is an honest question, not a snarky inquiry. What did you see that leads you to think his talent barely scrapes the 2nd round? If Von Miller went #2 last year, and he is basically the same size and a similar athlete, what did you see that leads you to that evaluation? I understand some people having questions about his background, but the film shows every bit the player Von Miller was.

Taking Bruce Irvin with any of our picks is find by me.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Teams threw on the Patriots 30% more than they ran on them last season. It's not just the Pats either. The NFL as a whole almost runs 2 passing plays to every running play. What is a "situational pass rusher" when teams pass 60% of the time? In today's NFL pass rushers like Bruce Irvin are needed a lot more often than the traditional "edge setters". I've mentioned it twice in this thread, and I'll mention it again; Today's "edge setters" need to be the "situational" players of the modern day NFL. When you are needed on almost 2/3 of the plays, you're no longer a situational player. How many "edge setters" do the Giants have in their front 7? With rules changes favoring WRs and QBs you have to have superb athletes rushing the QB in order to make them uncomfortable. Without these types of players, guys like Chad Henne and Vince Young throw for 400 on you.

This is an honest question, not a snarky inquiry. What did you see that leads you to think his talent barely scrapes the 2nd round? If Von Miller went #2 last year, and he is basically the same size and a similar athlete, what did you see that leads you to that evaluation? I understand some people having questions about his background, but the film shows every bit the player Von Miller was.

Taking Bruce Irvin with any of our picks is find by me.

It's about the tape. I watch the tape and I don't see a day one starter...you expect a day one starter with a first round pick. He'd have value in the second round. Late second round for me.

He has a lot to improve on if he's going to make a starter in the NFL in his rookie year. I studied a hell of a lot of Von Miller's tape and Irvin's does not even compare. It's no good watching youtube videos with highlights scraped together to show him in a good light...I have a contact who sends me the coaches tape he gets for all the players he evaluates.

He has enough upside and the measurables to make him a high pick but not the tape to bring him into the first round in my eyes. If he was every bit the player Von Miller was on tape, he would be a sure fire first round prospect.

 

[borg]

It's about the tape. I watch the tape and I don't see a day one starter...you expect a day one starter with a first round pick. He'd have value in the second round. Late second round for me.

He has a lot to improve on if he's going to make a starter in the NFL in his rookie year. I studied a hell of a lot of Von Miller's tape and Irvin's does not even compare. It's no good watching youtube videos with highlights scraped together to show him in a good light...I have a contact who sends me the coaches tape he gets for all the players he evaluates.

He has enough upside and the measurables to make him a high pick but not the tape to bring him into the first round in my eyes. If he was every bit the player Von Miller was on tape, he would be a sure fire first round prospect.

Seymour was not a day 1 starter....nor Warren, Wilfork, Maroney....and I'm sure there are more. Maybe a year one starter is more realistic especially at the bottom of the round. ....or a 3 down player. But with extra premium picks...maybe an elite specialist is overdue......but unBBlike

 

[iapatsfan]

It's about the tape. I watch the tape and I don't see a day one starter...you expect a day one starter with a first round pick. He'd have value in the second round. Late second round for me.

He has a lot to improve on if he's going to make a starter in the NFL in his rookie year. I studied a hell of a lot of Von Miller's tape and Irvin's does not even compare. It's no good watching youtube videos with highlights scraped together to show him in a good light...I have a contact who sends me the coaches tape he gets for all the players he evaluates.

He has enough upside and the measurables to make him a high pick but not the tape to bring him into the first round in my eyes. If he was every bit the player Von Miller was on tape, he would be a sure fire first round prospect.

I am not saying he is Von Miller. I'm just saying I don't see the gap you do. I don't think Irvin should be the #2 pick in the draft, but I don't think his talent barely scrapes the 2nd round like you do. I object to that disparity.

Was Solder picked to be a day one starter (Light, Vollmer)? Maroney (Dillon)? Watson (Graham)? Wilfork (Keith Traylor was the starter)? I don't think that is the only criteria you use when making a first round pick. I think when making your first round pick your question should be; Can this player help my team in a significant way? In my opinion, the answer with Irvin is yes. As for being a day one starter, who would be his competition? Jermaine Cunningham? Dane Fletcher? Trevor Scott? Bobby Carpenter? I'd take my chances with Irvin.

 

[Marqui]

Little bird has whispered that Irvin is on their radar.

Wow please be true. There's nothing this team needs more than a young athletic pass rusher like Irvin. The Pats better make sure they come away from this draft with either Perry or Irvin. Or better yet both.

 

[doesntmatter1]

I've watched a few west virginia games so i believe I can chime in with some useful insights. He is fast and almost reminds you of von miller at first glance, but he has one huge fatal flaw: functional strength. On more than one occasion i have seen him completely thrown like a rag doll. He can be useful in spurts to surprise OT with his speed but if he is left on the field to long tackles will quickly adjust to him and he will become basically useless on the field. I need to emphasize the lack of power he possess. Blitzing cornerbacks from the slot seem to be more effective than him and they seem to not get pushed around as bad as irvin sometimes is.

Until he does something about his strenght i rather use kyle arrington as a speed rusher over irvin. Irvin reminds me alot of aaron maybin.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

He did do something; he gained 20 pounds of muscle. He said that his playing weight last season was between 225 and 230. Now he's weighing in at 245.

 

[ay-yo]

I wouldn't draft Irvin before any of Coples, Ingram, Upshaw, Perry, Mercilus, Curry, McClellin, Branch or Jones. Give me a guy who consistently was on the field.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I wouldn't draft Irvin before any of Coples, Ingram, Upshaw, Perry, Mercilus, Curry, McClellin, Branch or Jones. Give me a guy who consistently was on the field.

BB consistently tries to find three down players in the first round. And I think he has done a better than great job of it.

Unfortunately I do not see any of the OLB or DE conversion projects in this draft as three down players.

Maybe this is the year BB changes his tactics and takes a pass rusher early? Given the way the NFL is becoming a passing league and add to that the fact that our DB's have to cover longer per pass play than any DB's in the history of the league, due to our current sory pass rush, I don't think it is that much of a leap.

But then I think back to the countless scores (Maybe a hundred or more) of DE/OLB pass rushers that BB has passed on in previous drafts and I quickly come to the conclusion that unless Kraft is involved personally, there is no way BB takes a pass rusher in round one.

I still have my hopes set on BB trading up for Brockers (#27 and #48). And then trading back at #31 to recoup the lost second rounder an extra pick for the 2013 draft.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I've watched a few west virginia games so i believe I can chime in with some useful insights. He is fast and almost reminds you of von miller at first glance, but he has one huge fatal flaw: functional strength. On more than one occasion i have seen him completely thrown like a rag doll. He can be useful in spurts to surprise OT with his speed but if he is left on the field to long tackles will quickly adjust to him and he will become basically useless on the field. I need to emphasize the lack of power he possess. Blitzing cornerbacks from the slot seem to be more effective than him and they seem to not get pushed around as bad as irvin sometimes is.

Until he does something about his strenght i rather use kyle arrington as a speed rusher over irvin. Irvin reminds me alot of aaron maybin.

Functional strenth, which is really just being able to coordinate strength smoothly between vectors and velocities, can be developed with proper training.

It's possible that he's also lacking in technique, which can also be taught. Alex Smith isn't exactly a beast but he floored Greg Ellis when he hit him at the right place at the right time.

Alex Smith hits Greg Ellis - YouTube