Welcome to PatsFans.com

West Virginia OLB/DE Bruce Irvin

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by State, Apr 9, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,545
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +22 / 1 / -8

    #70 Jersey

    He's come from the bottom. His reputation doesn't match up with the person he is. He's a great pick-up for the value at the end of the first.

    Bruce Irvin is an uncanny physical replica of Von Miller--same height and weight--except without quite the leaping ability. Though Irvin's even a smidgen faster and stronger than last year's combine boywonder who went what, seventh pick?

    Almost identical forty times--4.53 Miller/4.50 Irvin;
    IDENTICAL three cone drill--6.70
    20 yard shuffle--4.06 Miller/4.03 Irvin
    Broad jump--126" Miller/123" Irvin

    But nfl.com lauds Von Miller and his "prototypical size," while denigrating Irvin as having "an undersized frame" playing the same position. It's completely bogus. Bruce Irvin will play so much like Von Miller it will be freakish. Both these guys are physical freaks.

    NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Bruce Irvin
    NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Von Miller

    Stone Mountain's Bruce Irvin tries to land in NFL *| ajc.com

    His most recent trouble seems to be incredibly minor.

    Don't kid yourself if the Pats take a hard look at Irvin for one of our firsts. It's too bad Irving couldn't change his first name to Von, and collect an additional 20 million.
     
  2. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    9,612
    Likes Received:
    468
    Ratings:
    +1,208 / 9 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    I'm not a fan of saying "never going to happen" but Bruce Irvin in the first for the Patriots? Never going to happen-ish.

    Irvin is a complete washout against the run, my granny could block him. He's a one-trick pony who might start having some value in the third round for the Pats.

    The reason I don't like "never going to happen" is that it only holds true until something happens for the first time. Cue a Bruce Irvin pick for the Pats in the first round.


    So I'm not a fan of an early Irvin pick, but just to give further fuel to those who like him, Irvin vs Demarcus Ware:

     
  3. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,545
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +22 / 1 / -8

    #70 Jersey

    Are you talking about the 11th pick in the draft, taken by Dallas? A guy who played for no-name Troy? And we're talking about a faster guy who played for West Virginia?

    I'm talking about taking a guy at 27 or 31--with the same physical skills as guys taking in the top 15. If his name wasn't Bruce Irvin he'd be like these other guys, a top 15 or even top ten pick.

    You just further proved my point, buttercup. (I saw Star Trek last night.)
     
  4. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,425
    Likes Received:
    179
    Ratings:
    +507 / 1 / -1

    I'll say it. Irvin to the Pats in round 1 is never going to happen. Even at the end of round 2, it's unlikely. If they see him as having some kind of ability other than pure pass rushing (special teams coverage, 4-3 SLB or 3-4 ILB on early downs), then maybe at 62. He just doesn't at all fit with what Belichick wants to do, though.
     
  5. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,545
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +22 / 1 / -8

    #70 Jersey

    Physical skills eerily reminiscent of past picks--second player taken last year with Von Miller and the 11th player in 2005 with Demarcus Ware--and you wouldn't take him in the second round.

    I bet other teams won't be so shy.

    This guy is the Rodney Dangerfield player of the 2012 draft. He can't get any respect.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  6. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    9,612
    Likes Received:
    468
    Ratings:
    +1,208 / 9 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    Well if the only way to evaluate players was by comparing combine statistics, then Irvin might be good in the first round. But tape and team philosophy matter too. We've NEVER drafted a first round pass rusher, it's been stated often that the Pats like first rounders to contribute as 3 down starters rather than limited specialists, BB values the ability to defend the run over pass rush from his front 7 are all elements which suggest that Irvin in the first is a bit of a pipe dream. As for Irvin's tape, he demonstrates only a speed rush in his arsenal and I read elsewhere that against OL's later drafted into the NFL he's only had one sack. He makes up his numbers against weaker opposition (don't know if true, just repeating what I read).
     
  7. stevedogc

    stevedogc Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2005
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    His name and attributes have nothing to do with where he gets drafted. Von Miller was a complete, pass rushing OLB in college. Bruce Irvin is and undersized defensive end who's only job was to rush the passer in college. If he is going to become a OLB in the pros he is going to have to learn a whole new position. He has almost no experience dropping into coverage and is not good against the run. BB would never spend a 1st on a one trick pony who needs to learn a new position in the pros.
     
  8. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,545
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +22 / 1 / -8

    #70 Jersey

    Demarcus Ware played for Troy. I doubt he faced better OTs than Bruce Irvin.

    Ware had 19.5 sacks for Dallas last season. The Patriots would love to have him.

    I think Irvin's got better moves than you've been led to believe. Even the rather deprecating nfl.com says he's got "a flurry of moves" and an "uncanny athletic ability" to get through offensive linemen "to produce massive sack production." Just what we need.

    NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Bruce Irvin

    I think a speed demon who makes Mark Anderson look like slow is just what this defense needs. The defensive secondary had a long, long season last year.
     
  9. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,425
    Likes Received:
    179
    Ratings:
    +507 / 1 / -1

    All the speed in the world doesn't matter if teams can get 5 yards on every carry by running straight at Irvin every time.
     
  10. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,545
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +22 / 1 / -8

    #70 Jersey

    I grant your point about the Butkus winner from Texas A&M being a more complete player, but taking Irving at 31 sounds like a fair trade-off to me.

    Von Miller was the second player taken last year. He's a more complete player. Just a little slower than Irvin. I think Irvin will learn. Take a step back and look at where he's come from.

    Read the link I posted from ajc.com. I admire what he's been able to do with his life. I can envision Robert Kraft agreeing with me.
     
  11. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,767
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +445 / 7 / -0

    #3 Jersey

    On these ~ selected ~ points, you'll get no Argument from me.

    I've been pimping Bruce Irvin as the most explosive Pass Rusher in this Class since Nam.

    The comparison to Von Miller ~ despite different backgrounds ~ has always been an obvious one, as well. :cool:

    ***

    But even I wouldn't hit'm up until the late 2nd Round.

    Whatever his potential Impact, his Market Value is probably the 3rd Round, not the 1st. :eek:
     
  12. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,545
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +22 / 1 / -8

    #70 Jersey

    I'll take that before a third and ten or more yards being converted to keep a long drive going.

    We saw that too much. The inability except for a few games to get after the QB.

    A nasty speed edge rusher is exactly what we need. A faster, more explosive Mark Anderson.

    To get a guy like Von Miller or Demarcus Ware who can hold up better to the run? Be prepared to give up both firsts and probably both seconds. And then you can go after the kid from UNC, Quinton Coples.

    This Bruce Irvin is potentially a phenomenal value because everyone is dissing. He truly is the Rodney Dangerfield of this draft class.
     
  13. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    5,914
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +86 / 5 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    When you look into his past, you get scared very quickly. He spent time in juvenile prison. But then managed to get a GED and went on to Community college before landing at West Virginia. I give him props for sticking with it.

    While the numbers are similar, the difference between Irwin and Ware and Miller is that Irwin is raw and his game is completely one dimensional. He can ONLY rush the passer. And it just so happens, we desperately need someone that can do just that.

    I describe Irwin in just one word. Sudden!

    There is no denying, his first step is awesome. Not quite Miller awesome, but close. His bend is great. Not quite Ware great, but very close.

    Against the run, he can find the ball. He probably can;t tell you how he found the ball, but if the RB comes close to him, he can drag the RB down. He can also drag down QB's much bigger than him.

    If you watch his tape you will see OTs burying him on one play and then he comes back on the next and makes a play. He learns from his mistakes.

    Is he worth a first round pick? In my mind, it depends on how he anwers questions about he past criminal activities and if he projects as a three down player.

    All that being said however, his past still scares me. A first round pick means a lot of money for a guy who has not previously demonstrated the ability to make goo decisions.
     
  14. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    9,612
    Likes Received:
    468
    Ratings:
    +1,208 / 9 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    But if he's available in the second round, why take him in the first? Why not trade back from 31 and then draft him?

    I have a theory that the Patriots are actively looking at a middle-late round pass rusher this year. They've looked at Irvin, Ronnell Lewis, Darius Fleming and possibly Tim Fugger, Sammy Brown and Kyle Wilber. So it's possible that they draft him, it just won't happen in the first.

    My personal preference is Ronnell Lewis. Better against the run and thus more likely to be a three down player and is a special teams ace which is another tick the Patriots will put against his name and is possibly versatile enough to play ILB too.
     
  15. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,545
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +22 / 1 / -8

    #70 Jersey

    I guess part of my frustration is last year's combine performance by Von Miller caused people to fall over themselves in excitement. They drooled over him. It was a feeding frenzy.

    He went from being a mid to late first-rounder to just about the first player taken.

    And Bruce "Dangerfield" Irvin puts out numbers so similar to cause me to do a double take--and he's the exact same height and weight--and people treat him like a piece of spoiled fruit.

    I can't understand it. People are coming up with excuses: about the scheme he played in at WVU, the paltry level of competition, his checkered past, his inability to protect against the run, to cover in the flats, etc.

    Truth be told he's an exceptional prospect as the 3-4 end "rush" linebacker. Just what we need.

    And I love his life story. They make movies out of stories like his.

    He's a poor man's Von Miller with a Michael Oher-type inspirational story.

    And don't think in a couple of weeks he doesn't start coming up teams' boards, as he had exceptionally good interviews. Rob Rang had him being taken at #26 in the first round in one of his mocks, though not his most recent.

    Probably he's going to be taken in the second round. I can't wait to see his production in the nfl. If we take him then, that's fine.

    Bruce Irvin, West Virginia, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

    I love how his strength is adequate to take on tight ends in the running game. And here's the clincher: he comes back hard after being knocked down. He's a fighter.
     
  16. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    5,914
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +86 / 5 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    I think part of your frustration is that the combine is just a piece of the process. The tape on Miller says he is excellent rushing the passer but he can also play the run and sometimes he would drop into coverage as well.

    Meanwhile Irwin;s tape says he is just a pass rusher.
     
  17. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,545
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +22 / 1 / -8

    #70 Jersey

    The interesting thing, though, is that according to Irvin--who has been said to have been exceptionally forthcoming in his interviews at the Combine--the Mountaineers emphasized protecting against the run and rarely practiced rushing the QB. So Irvin got by on his impressive athleticism to get his 22.5 sacks the past two years.

    But he's still raw, with a lot to learn. Imagine coaching him up, he could be a phenomenal edge rusher.

    Here's what he says: "I feel like, to be honest with you, I've never been taught how to pass rush. The last two years, the 23 sacks that I got, it was all natural ability. Not to knock my coaches, but they emphasized stopping the run, and that's what we did. We never did any pass rushing drills. I feel like, with the proper coaching and the right people around me I feel like I can be a very productive player in this league."

    Link: Seattle Seahawks 2012 NFL Draft: DE/OLB Bruce Irvin - Field Gulls

    He could be just barely scratching his potential if this is the case.

    UPDATE: Here is great nerdy draft videos of three games from two years ago, against Maryland, UConn, and Russell Wilson and NC State. He's amazing. Never takes a play off. And considering his lack of coaching at getting after the QB, he should be considered a late round selection in the first round.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So3cc75Ng2g&feature=player_embedded#!
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  18. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    14,636
    Likes Received:
    174
    Ratings:
    +447 / 4 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    As draft time gets nearer love is in the air- again!

    First, Miller was considered a top 5 pick way before the combine last year.
    Irvin is a pass rusher and a very good one, but that's it- he has nothing else.

    Can't set the edge, gets run over, and can't cover. He is a fit for a 4-3 team that stays 4-3 all the time. Unlike Miller who can set the edge and does play the run very well and rushes the passer.

    So Irvin will be a pass rush specialist and not woth a 1st round pick, maybe a late 2nd rounder but I doubt if the Patriots go for him. But they may go for Jones from 'Cuse in the late 1st.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  19. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,545
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +22 / 1 / -8

    #70 Jersey

    Take a look at this play in the bowl game against Clemson

    Bruce Irvin vs Clemson 2011 - YouTube

    That shows hustle. He looks a little worn down by the end of the game, though. He's flying around like a rocket in the first half.

    And I've noticed Irvin is also adept at stripping the ball.

    What a great pick for us in the second round! Problem is I don't think he'll be available at #48.
     
  20. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    14,636
    Likes Received:
    174
    Ratings:
    +447 / 4 / -1

    #75 Jersey

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>