Wes Walker -- worth a second round pick?

[Hok]

Five pages in, and I'm the first person to point out that there's no 2nd round pick tender for RFAs? Embarrassing...

Here's the tender system for RFAs:
Low tender = Team gives up pick in round in which player was originally drafted
Mid-level tender = Team gives up 1st rounder
High tender = Team gives up 1st rounder and 3rd rounder

Welker was undrafted, so the Dolphins would get nothing for him if they offered him the low tender and someone signed him away. He's almost sure to get a mid-level tender, then, and we'd have to give up a 1st to get him.

 

[dhamz]

Five pages in, and I'm the first person to point out that there's no 2nd round pick tender for RFAs? Embarrassing...

Those are the old rules. These are the new ones:

This year, as part of the new collective bargaining agreement, a second-round tender has been added. If a team places that tender on a RFA, the original team could match any offer or would receive a second-round pick in return.

The tender amounts are as follows:

Low tender -- $850,000
Second-round tender -- $1.3 million
First-round tender -- $1.85 million
First- and third-round tender -- $2.35 million

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

 

[ATippett56]

Five pages in, and I'm the first person to point out that there's no 2nd round pick tender for RFAs? Embarrassing...

Refer to pages 35 and 36 of the Amended CBA:

http://www.nflpa.com/CBA/CBA_Complete.aspx

 

[Hok]

Refer to pages 35 and 36 of the Amended CBA:

http://www.nflpa.com/CBA/CBA_Complete.aspx

My sincerest apologies. I'd better get with the times.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

...considered Flurrey as well...

I prefer the McRib to the McFlurry...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Another important question: would this be trading a 2008 pick, or a 2007 pick? [I presume 2008, which would make more inclined to think about it.]

 

[ATippett56]

Another important question: would this be trading a 2008 pick, or a 2007 pick? [I presume 2008, which would make more inclined to think about it.]

It would occur this year since Welker is a restricted free agent in 2007.

http://www.nflpa.com/cba/cba_pdf/Article_XIX_Veteran_Free_Agency.pdf

 

[PATRIOT64]

Who is Wes Walker? - Is he related to JJ Walker of Good Times Fame?

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Who is Wes Walker? - Is he related to JJ Walker of Good Times Fame?

Apparently, he's a Texas Ranger of some sort...

 

[DaBruinz]

anyone that says yes is drunk. there is a reason he is a 3rd reciever on a crappy receiving corps already

I have to disagree with you. Here's why.
Welker LED the Dolphins in receptions with 67. He was second on the Dolphins in yardage.

Welker was the targeted receiver 100 times and caught 67 passes. Of those 67 passes, 33 went for 1st downs. OH, he had 4 drops.

I would think that constitute someone being a little bit MORE than a 3rd receiver.

Welker is a #2/#3 receiver in the Troy Brown mold. Not only that, Welker is a solid KR/PR. Welker could also be considered an emergency kicker.

I think that is definitely worth a #2 pick.

For Comparison (Regular season only):
Caldwell - targeted 102 times. 1 drop. 61 receptions. 760 yards.
Gaffney - targeted 20 times. 2 drops. 11 receptions. 142 yards.
Troy Brown - targeted 75 times. 2 drops. 43 receptions. 384 yards.
Ben Watson - targeted 91 times. 6 drops. 49 receptions. 643 yards.
Daniel Graham - targeted 34 times. 3 drops. 21 receptions. 235 yards.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'd rather just see them give Bam more playing time.

Something to think about. Bam Childress got passed up by Kelvin Kight. Bam has been in the system for 3 years and Kight passed him up in less than half a season. I think that its high time to give up on the Bam Childress feel good story.

 

[The Predator]

True, but the FA crop this year is lacking at LB.

Oh great here comes the drugs again. That is one of the dumbest statements as of yet. Oh brother. Smoke out the wazzo once again.

Adams, Keith UFA Dolphins
Alexander, Eric ERFA Patriots
Allen, James UFA Saints
Anderson, Charlie RFA Texans
Archer, Phil ERFA Chargers
Bailey, Boss UFA Lions
Banta-Cain, Tully UFA Patriots
Barber, Shawn UFA Eagles
Beisel, Monty UFA Cardinals
Blackburn, Chase ERFA Giants
Bockwoldt, Colby RFA Titans
Boiman, Rocky UFA Colts
Briggs, Lance UFA Bears
Brown, Chad UFA Steelers
Chillar, Brandon RFA Rams
Claiborne, Chris UFA Giants
Clark, Danny UFA Saints
Cody, Dan ERFA Ravens
Cordova, Jorge RFA Jaguars
Curry, Donté UFA Lions
Darling, James UFA Cardinals
Davis, Don UFA Patriots
Davis, Rod RFA Vikings
Ekejiuba , Isaiah ERFA Raiders
Evans, Troy UFA Texans
Farwell, Heath ERFA Vikings
Fletcher-Baker, London UFA Bills
Fowler, Ryan RFA Cowboys
Gardner, Barry UFA Patriots
Gardner, Gilbert RFA Colts
Gilbert, Tony UFA Jaguars
Glenn, Jason UFA Vikings
Glymph, Junior RFA Cowboys
Godfrey, Randall UFA Chargers
Griffin, Kris ERFA Chiefs
Harris, Marques ERFA Chargers
Harrison, Arnold ERFA Steelers
Henderson, E.J. UFA Vikings
Holdman, Warrick UFA Redskins
Huff, Orlando UFA Cardinals
Irons, Grant UFA Raiders
Johnson, Landon RFA Bengals
June, Cato UFA Colts
Kacyvenski, Isaiah UFA Rams
Keiaho, Freddy ERFA Colts
Koutouvides, Niko RFA Seahawks
Lewis, Alex RFA Lions
Lewis, D.D. UFA Seahawks
Mallard, Wesly UFA Buccaneers
Mays, Corey ERFA Patriots
Melton, Terrence RFA Saints
Miller, Caleb RFA Bengals
Mitchell, Kawika UFA Chiefs
Morris, Rob UFA Colts
Nande, Terna ERFA Titans
Newman, Keith UFA Dolphins
Orr, Shantee UFA Texans
Phillips, Shaun RFA Chargers
Polk, Carlos UFA Chargers
Polk, DaShon UFA Texans
Polley, Tommy UFA Saints
Posey, Jeff UFA Redskins
Rainer, Wali UFA Texans
Reynolds, Robert RFA Titans
Riddle, Ryan ERFA Jets
Scanlon, Rich RFA Chiefs
Seau, Junior UFA Patriots
Shanle, Scott UFA Saints
Short, Brandon UFA Giants
Short, Jason RFA Eagles
Singleton, Al UFA Cowboys
Sirmon, Peter UFA Titans
Slaughter, T.J. UFA 49ers
Smith, Mike ERFA Ravens
Smith, Raonall UFA Rams
Smith, Tyson ERFA Giants
Spencer, Cody RFA Jets
Spragan, Donnie UFA Dolphins
Stanley, Ronald ERFA Steelers
Taylor, Ben UFA Packers
Thomas, Adalius UFA Ravens
Thomas, Pat ERFA Jaguars
Thomas, Robert UFA Raiders
Torbor, Reggie RFA Giants
Unck, Mason RFA Browns
White, Tracy UFA Packers
Wilhelm, Matt RFA Chargers
Wilkins, Marcus UFA Bengals
Williams, Demorrio RFA Falcons
Wilson, Rod ERFA Bears

 

[lutontown_fc]

Honestly, why can't people just post a reply without being so abusive all the time?

Maybe we should have some type of 'basic forum manners' course for all members who lack the the most simple etiquette.

NM

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

As for Welker - a second rounder is way too much for him. Look at it this way-
We could sign Drew Bennett as an UFA and still have the second round pick to nab a a solid contributor.

Maybe Chad Jackson didn't have a first year impact but most of our second round picks have, so swapping Welker - who is a tough, hard working guy to be sure - for a comparable WR like Bennett (not a PR, I know) and pick who turns out like Branch, Faulk, Light or Wilson, just doesn't seem like a good value.

 

[Krugman]

Hmmmmm second round,dont know about that,although he did have a big game against us in the last year or two..suppose it depends on what is out there.

 

[Ring 6]

Our success has been built from the draft.
Not only wouyld you be giving up a 2nd rounder, but also muchmore cap money than the 2nd rounder would cost you.
All that for a punt returner who caught some passes because Miami had no one else to throw to?
Welker a year ago was a surprise to even make an NFL team. You simply don't give up a 2nd rounder and significant cap $$ to get a guy like that just because he threw up some statistics because of the situation he was in.

If you want a Wes Welker on your team, you find one afte the draft as and undrafted free agent. Second round picks are reserved for guys who have exceptional ability not guys who lack it but do ok despite that.

 

[Oswlek]

Our success has been built from the draft.
Not only wouyld you be giving up a 2nd rounder, but also muchmore cap money than the 2nd rounder would cost you.
All that for a punt returner who caught some passes because Miami had no one else to throw to?
Welker a year ago was a surprise to even make an NFL team. You simply don't give up a 2nd rounder and significant cap $$ to get a guy like that just because he threw up some statistics because of the situation he was in.

If you want a Wes Welker on your team, you find one afte the draft as and undrafted free agent. Second round picks are reserved for guys who have exceptional ability not guys who lack it but do ok despite that.

I am one of Welker's biggest fans and even I would really have to talk myself into being happy with losing a 2nd.

That said, there are a lot of people that totally underestimate how good he is. Welker did not "catch some passes because Miami had no one else to throw to". That is a patently absurd statement. If anything, Miami's only area of strength offensively is their WRs. Welker would immediately be. at worst, the second best WR on NE. It isn't as if he is an old vet, either. He would have basically the same football life expectancy as any rookie brought in.

You also use the term "punt returner" as if it is not important, possibly even an insult. Welker is without a doubt one of the top 5 return men in the league. He is truly a weapon out there.

Lastly, Welker would not be that costly. I can't imagine that his cap hit would be more than 2-400k more than a second rounder. The added cost on top of the loss of the pick is not an issue.

Now, if anyone wants to make the case that there are guys that NE could sign that would provide close to Welker's value (not necessarily the same guy - maybe a WR and a DB who returns well) without giving up a pick, that I can buy. That way you get close to the value of the player and you can still bring in another highly rated rookie. It is important to realize that even the best teams rarely hit better than singles or doubles with their second rounders, though. I can assure you that you could scroll through any of the past 10 years of 2nd rounders and more than half are complete flops or JAGs.

But there is no reason to go over the top in besmerching Welker. He is a very good player that, IMHO, most here would *not* trade for a second if he was on NE.

 

[JackBauer]

Oh great here comes the drugs again. That is one of the dumbest statements as of yet. Oh brother. Smoke out the wazzo once again.

Adams, Keith UFA Dolphins
Alexander, Eric ERFA Patriots
Allen, James UFA Saints
Anderson, Charlie RFA Texans
Archer, Phil ERFA Chargers
Bailey, Boss UFA Lions
Banta-Cain, Tully UFA Patriots
Barber, Shawn UFA Eagles
Beisel, Monty UFA Cardinals
Blackburn, Chase ERFA Giants
Bockwoldt, Colby RFA Titans
Boiman, Rocky UFA Colts
Briggs, Lance UFA Bears
Brown, Chad UFA Steelers
Chillar, Brandon RFA Rams
Claiborne, Chris UFA Giants
Clark, Danny UFA Saints
Cody, Dan ERFA Ravens
Cordova, Jorge RFA Jaguars
Curry, Donté UFA Lions
Darling, James UFA Cardinals
Davis, Don UFA Patriots
Davis, Rod RFA Vikings
Ekejiuba , Isaiah ERFA Raiders
Evans, Troy UFA Texans
Farwell, Heath ERFA Vikings
Fletcher-Baker, London UFA Bills
Fowler, Ryan RFA Cowboys
Gardner, Barry UFA Patriots
Gardner, Gilbert RFA Colts
Gilbert, Tony UFA Jaguars
Glenn, Jason UFA Vikings
Glymph, Junior RFA Cowboys
Godfrey, Randall UFA Chargers
Griffin, Kris ERFA Chiefs
Harris, Marques ERFA Chargers
Harrison, Arnold ERFA Steelers
Henderson, E.J. UFA Vikings
Holdman, Warrick UFA Redskins
Huff, Orlando UFA Cardinals
Irons, Grant UFA Raiders
Johnson, Landon RFA Bengals
June, Cato UFA Colts
Kacyvenski, Isaiah UFA Rams
Keiaho, Freddy ERFA Colts
Koutouvides, Niko RFA Seahawks
Lewis, Alex RFA Lions
Lewis, D.D. UFA Seahawks
Mallard, Wesly UFA Buccaneers
Mays, Corey ERFA Patriots
Melton, Terrence RFA Saints
Miller, Caleb RFA Bengals
Mitchell, Kawika UFA Chiefs
Morris, Rob UFA Colts
Nande, Terna ERFA Titans
Newman, Keith UFA Dolphins
Orr, Shantee UFA Texans
Phillips, Shaun RFA Chargers
Polk, Carlos UFA Chargers
Polk, DaShon UFA Texans
Polley, Tommy UFA Saints
Posey, Jeff UFA Redskins
Rainer, Wali UFA Texans
Reynolds, Robert RFA Titans
Riddle, Ryan ERFA Jets
Scanlon, Rich RFA Chiefs
Seau, Junior UFA Patriots
Shanle, Scott UFA Saints
Short, Brandon UFA Giants
Short, Jason RFA Eagles
Singleton, Al UFA Cowboys
Sirmon, Peter UFA Titans
Slaughter, T.J. UFA 49ers
Smith, Mike ERFA Ravens
Smith, Raonall UFA Rams
Smith, Tyson ERFA Giants
Spencer, Cody RFA Jets
Spragan, Donnie UFA Dolphins
Stanley, Ronald ERFA Steelers
Taylor, Ben UFA Packers
Thomas, Adalius UFA Ravens
Thomas, Pat ERFA Jaguars
Thomas, Robert UFA Raiders
Torbor, Reggie RFA Giants
Unck, Mason RFA Browns
White, Tracy UFA Packers
Wilhelm, Matt RFA Chargers
Wilkins, Marcus UFA Bengals
Williams, Demorrio RFA Falcons
Wilson, Rod ERFA Bears

Ah, the mental midget is out to play again.

Most of the LBs you've posted either suck or would not fit in the Patriot's system. Did you really highlight Cato June? Rob Morris? RYAN FOWLER? Really? And you have the temerity to call my statement dumb?

I see maybe a handful LBs on that list that would fit on the Patriots, and the best available will probably be too expensive or unavailable.

Way to prove me wrong, champ.

 

[DaBruinz]

Oh great here comes the drugs again. That is one of the dumbest statements as of yet. Oh brother. Smoke out the wazzo once again.

Henderson, E.J. UFA Vikings

Henderson signed an extension with the Vikings. I think it was like 5 or 6 years.

Your list also didn't have Jarrett Johnson, UFA from the Ravens who might be a better long term ILB option than London Baker-Fletcher.

 

[Brownfan80]

I would love to see Welker in a Patriots uniform. But I'm not sure I'd want them to part with a 2nd rounder..