WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with WEEI

[brdmaverick]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

At the very least this should signal more pats talk and less sox talk in November, December, January, etc...

good point, thank goodness

 

[Pats726]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

Ultimately, I think that 'BZ will play the role of Virgin Atlantic to EEI's BA. Branson forced BA to become competitive again through his common sense strategies. In reality, Branson is what saved BA. While he certainly is going to be the ultimate death of the airline, he initially forced the dying entity back into competition. Ultimately, both products were enhanced, and the direct competition resulted in an overall better product for the marketplace. The same should be expected here.

I hope that is the case... I do hope the product gets better..has a long way to go...except for here there on EEI...now.

 

[Pats726]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

Do you really think that any radio personality is really like there on air persona? Do you think D&C are as Right Wing as their on air persona's or Pete Sheppard or Fred Smerlas are the baffoons they act on radio? Do you think Felger really went from a Patriots ball washer to a contrarian because his opinions changed on the team. Sorry, radio is entertainment. Radio personalities change their off air personality to make themselves more entrtaining to increase ratings. If he changes his personality on WBZ to be more pro Patriots and focus more on discussing real sports rather than being the contrarian point of view and it increases his ratings, I will say he is getting more media savvy.

If you think people on the radio always speak their minds, you are crazy. Most radio shows plan before hand on certain topics and have one host take one point of view and the other host take the other even if both are in agreement. Mike and Mike do it all the time. If everyone on the show agree on an issue that there isn't universal agreement amoung the listeners, it makes boring radio. Every show manipulates opinions to create entertainment.

In this area, Felger is no different than most hosts. Opinions are based on entertainment value and ratings over honest opinions.

Of course they are not the same..but one has a lot to risk being like that with players. That phoniness does not wear well at all.. There was a day when sports talk was less about entertainment and more about the sport and knowledge of the sport; those times have passed for many. For myself, I find much of "sports entertainment" like that very boring..doesn't bring me in to want to listen, but that is OK...it's all about the LCD and ratings.
We shall see what Felger brings...more of the same or another change?/

 

[Rob0729]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

Of course they are not the same..but one has a lot to risk being like that with players. That phoniness does not wear well at all.. There was a day when sports talk was less about entertainment and more about the sport and knowledge of the sport; those times have passed for many. For myself, I find much of "sports entertainment" like that very boring..doesn't bring me in to want to listen, but that is OK...it's all about the LCD and ratings.
We shall see what Felger brings...more of the same or another change?/

There is no one worse at what you hate about Felger than Jon Meterparel. He can't even make his contrarian point of view with a straight face and makes incredibly dumb to the point of ludicrious points to sell his fake contrarian point of view. Most people hate Meter and love to call into argue with him. Yet, the D&C show is immensely popular (for whatever reason I don't know).

I am not saying Felger's Borges Jr. act is great. It annoys me at time too, but no more than Pete Sheppard or Fred Smerlas in their Pete and the Pom Pom act. Their post game show is unlistenable and when Ordway lets them bring that act to the Big Show it is just as bad.

I think if Felger can tone down his Borges Jr. act, he can do good talk. Since WEEI tends to ignore football until the Red Sox are done (even on Patriots Monday they can talk baseball the entire time when they don't have a Patriots player or coach to interview), I welcome a guy who will talk football over baseball (Felger can't talk baseball very well and that is where he is usually exposed by others on WEEI, not football). You get Felger or you get Pete and Freddy. I don't see either being great options personally, but I will take the guy who will talk football over the guys who want to turn a Brady crush into an endless, mindnumbing bit and call that football talk.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

Ultimately, I think that 'BZ will play the role of Virgin Atlantic to EEI's BA. Branson forced BA to become competitive again through his common sense strategies. In reality, Branson is what saved BA. While he certainly is going to be the ultimate death of the airline, he initially forced the dying entity back into competition. Ultimately, both products were enhanced, and the direct competition resulted in an overall better product for the marketplace. The same should be expected here.

If the best thing that comes out of WBZ is that WEEI stops being comfortable at mailing it in and still being a ratings giant and actually improves their shows, I will be satisfied. Unfortunately, people like a lot of the dumbed down sports, man show entertainment. Personally, I prefer straight sports talk, but I think the masses want entertainment over good sports talk except maybe when it comes to baseball. Even then WEEI is still polluted with callers making ridiculous one sidesd trades.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

If the best thing that comes out of WBZ is that WEEI stops being comfortable at mailing it in and still being a ratings giant and actually improves their shows, I will be satisfied. Unfortunately, people like a lot of the dumbed down sports, man show entertainment. Personally, I prefer straight sports talk, but I think the masses want entertainment over good sports talk except maybe when it comes to baseball. Even then WEEI is still polluted with callers making ridiculous one sidesd trades.

1.) EVERYONE prefers to be entertained when getting their information. There's not a single human being on the planet that doesn't, to the best of my knowledge.

2.) What is your evidence that WEEI is "mailing it in"?

3.) The next station that mentions trades without also putting out "ridiculous one sided trades" will be the first station in history to do that, with or without callers initiating the ideas.

4.) WEEI, like every other radio station that's not publicly funded, has to turn a profit. That means that they need to attract and maintain listeners. If WEEI could make more money talking Patriots football 24/7/365, they'd be doing that. With football's limitations of schedule, among other things, baseball drives local sports talk in baseball towns for a much larger portion of the year. That won't change just because a new station pops up.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

1.) EVERYONE prefers to be entertained when getting their information. There's not a single human being on the planet that doesn't, to the best of my knowledge.

2.) What is your evidence that WEEI is "mailing it in"?

3.) The next station that mentions trades without also putting out "ridiculous one sided trades" will be the first station in history to do that, with or without callers initiating the ideas.

4.) WEEI, like every other radio station that's not publicly funded, has to turn a profit. That means that they need to attract and maintain listeners. If WEEI could make more money talking Patriots football 24/7/365, they'd be doing that. With football's limitations of schedule, among other things, baseball drives local sports talk in baseball towns for a much larger portion of the year. That won't change just because a new station pops up.

No kidding. And this is what the hopeful fail to grasp. CBS has been attempting to flip BCN into an all sports radio station for a couple of years now. They were apparently waiting for some things to fall into place, or not. Last fall when WEEI was having their periodic contract renewal squabble with D&C, CBS was trying desperately to sign them away to anchor an AM drive time slot for them...

To compete with WEEI the new station will go head to head over the same demographic WEEI has already established itself with, the 26-54 opinionated male. The 18-24 fantasy obcessed fanboys and women, the demographics that least appreciate either the politics or the homerism or the bufoonery of WEEI is not a sufficiently attractive demographic to persue because it won't pull in the advertising to pay for the on air talent.

WBZ will carry the games, but that didn't do much for BCN because the majority of Patsfans manage to be home watching on TV. Ditto pre and post game where WBZ TV coverage will actually be siphoning off potential listeners to it's own programming, if it has any...Football fans in NE are generally glued to their televisions from 11AM on on gameday.

I believe another WEEI charitable event is upcoming, their annual Jimmy Fund radiothon. It's now raising several million a year. That is the kind of clout you need more than frat boy vs. cougar humor or retread failures or abrasive Globe columnists to match up against. All the signal strength in the world isn't going to level the playing field unless you present a consistently compelling alternative to the same demographic and sponsors out of the gate.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

1.) EVERYONE prefers to be entertained when getting their information. There's not a single human being on the planet that doesn't, to the best of my knowledge.

2.) What is your evidence that WEEI is "mailing it in"?

3.) The next station that mentions trades without also putting out "ridiculous one sided trades" will be the first station in history to do that, with or without callers initiating the ideas.

4.) WEEI, like every other radio station that's not publicly funded, has to turn a profit. That means that they need to attract and maintain listeners. If WEEI could make more money talking Patriots football 24/7/365, they'd be doing that. With football's limitations of schedule, among other things, baseball drives local sports talk in baseball towns for a much larger portion of the year. That won't change just because a new station pops up.

1.) I enjoy entertainment, but when intelligent discussion is sacrificed to ridicule moronic callers or hosts for the sake of entertainment I rather pass. Informative sports discussions can be entertaining, bit WEEI seems to forget that at times, a lot of the time.

2.) I sure hope that WEEI is phoning it in because if the best they can do is put guys like Pete Sheppard and Jon Meterparel on, they really aren't that bright.

3.) I know it happens, but WEEI encourages that type of calls. They like to set many of their callers up to be the butt of their and other caller's jokes. Not everyone does it.

4.) I know they need to make a profit. Apparently dumbing down sports to the masses is what people are looking for. People seem to like moronic hosts as long as they are downright homers who ball wash the local team. Personally, I find it boring. WBZ could be my worst nightmare and WEEI could pander to that element of sports radio even more. I personally hate it because WEEI can spend a whole afternoon blathering on about nothing because they let Pete and Fred control the show. It has been a successful formula for them, but I think it makes bad radio. This is why I haven't listened to WEEI in months. I spend far more time on the national shows (ESPN, Sirius NFL Radio, Mad Dog radio, etc.) when listening to sports. With all their flaws, they manage to find a much better balance between entertainment and informative sports talk.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

No kidding. And this is what the hopeful fail to grasp. CBS has been attempting to flip BCN into an all sports radio station for a couple of years now. They were apparently waiting for some things to fall into place, or not. Last fall when WEEI was having their periodic contract renewal squabble with D&C, CBS was trying desperately to sign them away to anchor an AM drive time slot for them...

To compete with WEEI the new station will go head to head over the same demographic WEEI has already established itself with, the 26-54 opinionated male. The 18-24 fantasy obcessed fanboys and women, the demographics that least appreciate either the politics or the homerism or the bufoonery of WEEI is not a sufficiently attractive demographic to persue because it won't pull in the advertising to pay for the on air talent.

WBZ will carry the games, but that didn't do much for BCN because the majority of Patsfans manage to be home watching on TV. Ditto pre and post game where WBZ TV coverage will actually be siphoning off potential listeners to it's own programming, if it has any...Football fans in NE are generally glued to their televisions from 11AM on on gameday.

I believe another WEEI charitable event is upcoming, their annual Jimmy Fund radiothon. It's now raising several million a year. That is the kind of clout you need more than frat boy vs. cougar humor or retread failures or abrasive Globe columnists to match up against. All the signal strength in the world isn't going to level the playing field unless you present a consistently compelling alternative to the same demographic and sponsors out of the gate.

CBS haven't been trying to flip WBCN for a few years now. Howard Stern had only left WBCN three years ago and they did try to keep the station alive until the return of Opie and Anthony proved to be a disaster last year. That is when they made the switch. It has been about 9 months to a year.

As for trying to get D&C, that is standard radio practice. WBZ wouldn't have thought twice about adding them to their AM station even if it went against format. Howie Carr was almost stolen by the FM talk radio station. Whenever DJs or talk show hosts who own their time slot are available, everyone goes after them and are even willing to build then entire station around them if they are morning drive.

What does the Jimmy Fund event have to do with ratings. From what I hear the radio shows on those days tend to have low listenership because they don't talk sports much. I have never heard people say that they listen to WEEI because they raise millions for the Jimmy Fund. It is a great thing that they do every year, but it does nothing for the ratings. If that was the case, Eddie Andelman would have been a big hit on 1510 because his Hotdog Safari raises tons of money too.

As for what WBZ is offering in terms of content, shouldn't we wait until they actually broadcast a single minute of any of their shows before we declare them a failure. If Felger is able to do a Big Show type of show where he has a panel of 3-4 other people on all the time (many with great info) and he is limited to 10-30% of the actual talking like Ordway is, will it be all that bad? if Tanguay has a show like his pre or post game show with the Pats, will it be all that bad? I don't think it will.

I just hate the right wing politics of D&C or the man-show dumbed down approach to sports the Big Show falls into a lot. I think there is a way to be successful with alternative types of programming. If WBZ ever topples WEEI, you are talking years down the road. It may never happen, but this town is big enough for two successful sports radio stations.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

1.) I enjoy entertainment, but when intelligent discussion is sacrificed to ridicule moronic callers or hosts for the sake of entertainment I rather pass. Informative sports discussions can be entertaining, bit WEEI seems to forget that at times, a lot of the time.

2.) I sure hope that WEEI is phoning it in because if the best they can do is put guys like Pete Sheppard and Jon Meterparel on, they really aren't that bright.

3.) I know it happens, but WEEI encourages that type of calls. They like to set many of their callers up to be the butt of their and other caller's jokes. Not everyone does it.

4.) I know they need to make a profit. Apparently dumbing down sports to the masses is what people are looking for. People seem to like moronic hosts as long as they are downright homers who ball wash the local team. Personally, I find it boring. WBZ could be my worst nightmare and WEEI could pander to that element of sports radio even more. I personally hate it because WEEI can spend a whole afternoon blathering on about nothing because they let Pete and Fred control the show. It has been a successful formula for them, but I think it makes bad radio. This is why I haven't listened to WEEI in months. I spend far more time on the national shows (ESPN, Sirius NFL Radio, Mad Dog radio, etc.) when listening to sports. With all their flaws, they manage to find a much better balance between entertainment and informative sports talk.

Ok, your opinions are your own, but comments about mailing it in just make no sense without something factual to back them up.

By the way, listening to national shows and saying that you want "informative sports talk"? They are almost mutually exclusive, by design, outside the realm of guests.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

One last point, being good and being successful are not neccessarily synomous. I think many here who listen to WEEI will say they don't do enough of committing to the former as they should. I am one of them.

 

[captain insano]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

if anybody thinks the new bcn will have more pats talk than eei you will be very disappointed. the same demographic that tunes in eei is the same demographic that bcn will be targeting. if bcn wants high ratings they will gear the station towards the listener. the people listing will be Boston sports fans. Boston sports fans are obviously huge sox fans. the only way there will be more pats talk is if the majority of the callers[listeners] want it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

Ok, your opinions are your own, but comments about mailing it in just make no sense without something factual to back them up.

By the way, listening to national shows and saying that you want "informative sports talk"? They are almost mutually exclusive, by design, outside the realm of guests.

And never more so than in Foxboro... I guess this is where the need to be perceived as something other than a shameless BB/Brady ballwasher gets born...and nurtured. Insecurity...You see much the same lament from Boston sportswriters, they'd rather be perceived as objective by their peers outside of the Boston market than secure in the knowledge they are good Boston sports reporters. If folks really want to be objective about this team, as opposed to just blathering about objectivity, all they really need to know is 4 trips to the ultimate game in 8 years and 3 Lombardi's... They win 3 out of 4 games consistently. Unless your deluded enough to imagine there could or should be something better, being critical of a team that has accomplished that is being devoid of actual objectivity.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

if anybody thinks the new bcn will have more pats talk than eei you will be very disappointed. the same demographic that tunes in eei is the same demographic that bcn will be targeting. if bcn wants high ratings they will gear the station towards the listener. the people listing will be Boston sports fans. Boston sports fans are obviously huge sox fans. the only way there will be more pats talk is if the majority of the callers[listeners] want it.

That is the BS line that WEEI sells when they turn away Patriots callers. The problem is that WEEI's call screeners have filtered out Patriots callers at least in the past to talk baseball. WEEI has a vested interest in the Sox more than the Patriots and most of the afternoon guests are more versed in the Sox than Patriots.

If you really think the callers control the content on WEEI you are crazy. It is totally determined based on what the host sets up which will send the screeners to find people who want to talk about that topic. Otherwise, why is it there are an overwhelming majority of Celtics calls only when the hosts on the shows want to talk about Celtics, but Celtics calls are non-existent other times.

Yes, the Red Sox is still the most popular team in town, but the gap between them and the Patriots have narrowed an extreme amount. Unfortunately, WEEI hasn't caught up to that narrowing gap (although they are better than they were a few years ago). Six to seven years ago, the Red Sox were kings and no one was close, but that isn't so much the case now. Winning has helped the Pats and hurt the Sox in many ways (fellowship of the miserable and Dan Shaunesy disciples have found no more reason to call in now the curse is over).

The many in younger generations (under 21) are as big or bigger Patriots fans than Sox fans because they grew up on the Bob Kraft era Patriots and not the Sullivan era like many on this board. That means the number Pats fans in target demos will grow over the next 5-10 years exponentially since the Kraft era is now 15 years old.

There is and will be an increasingly bigger and bigger fanbase for the Patriots who listen to sports radio. If WEEI doesn't want to exploit it, it could be a niche for WBZ. It seems clear that WEEI is starting to recognize it (by paying for Patriots' Friday and ditching the Sunday Baseball show on draft weekend for draft talk), but they are still slow to fully embrace the shift in the market because of their ties with the Red Sox (both they and their sister station still broadcast the games).

WBZ will push more Patriots just in the fact that they broadcast the games and their sister TV station broadcast the CBS games and is the official TV station for the Patriots. Most sports radio stations give added focus to the teams they own the broadcast rights. WEEI does it. 1510 the Zone does it. WBZ will most likely do it too. Expect a significant amount more Patriots and Bruins talk on WBZ than on WEEI. Adding Tanguay and Felger seems to support that theory since both are football guys.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

Ok, your opinions are your own, but comments about mailing it in just make no sense without something factual to back them up.

By the way, listening to national shows and saying that you want "informative sports talk"? They are almost mutually exclusive, by design, outside the realm of guests.

I am giving my opinion. Not stating fact.

As for national shows, that isn't true. Many shows have guys who know a lot of about certain subjects. Gil Bryant is a host on NFL radio and he can give scouting analysis for teams' third back up in some positions. They may not spend too much time on any one team or subject, but it doesn't mean they cannot give intelligent and informative information on these subjects.

Besides, that gets to my other gripe with WEEI which will probably won't change with WBZ - redundancy. WEEI is famous for taking a hotbutton issue like steriods and beat the subject in the ground taking repeated callers who just say the same thing in different ways. That is an example how I feel they phone it in because they look for these low hanging fruit issues and will spend days on them.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

I am giving my opinion. Not stating fact.

As for national shows, that isn't true. Many shows have guys who know a lot of about certain subjects. Gil Bryant is a host on NFL radio and he can give scouting analysis for teams' third back up in some positions. They may not spend too much time on any one team or subject, but it doesn't mean they cannot give intelligent and informative information on these subjects.

Besides, that gets to my other gripe with WEEI which will probably won't change with WBZ - redundancy. WEEI is famous for taking a hotbutton issue like steriods and beat the subject in the ground taking repeated callers who just say the same thing in different ways. That is an example how I feel they phone it in because they look for these low hanging fruit issues and will spend days on them.

No, I'm sorry, but it is true about national broadcasts, because it's true about pretty much all broadcasts. To say otherwise is just flat-out wrong. Whether it's Mike & Mike, Cowherd, or any other national broadcast, it's about conversation, not information. It has to be that way for them to survive. That's why they have the sports updates rather than just constantly rattling off the sports news.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

And never more so than in Foxboro... I guess this is where the need to be perceived as something other than a shameless BB/Brady ballwasher gets born...and nurtured. Insecurity...You see much the same lament from Boston sportswriters, they'd rather be perceived as objective by their peers outside of the Boston market than secure in the knowledge they are good Boston sports reporters. If folks really want to be objective about this team, as opposed to just blathering about objectivity, all they really need to know is 4 trips to the ultimate game in 8 years and 3 Lombardi's... They win 3 out of 4 games consistently. Unless your deluded enough to imagine there could or should be something better, being critical of a team that has accomplished that is being devoid of actual objectivity.

There is no such thing as objective talk radio. Talk radio is all about opinions. Most hosts oversell their opinions to make their show more entertaining. The problem I have is when that oversell becomes ludicrious. It happens to both extremes where you have Felger and Meterparel on one side and Pete Sheppard and Fred Smerlas on the other. I don't know if either of them are remotely good radio.

I am just hopeful that Felger will tone down his Borges Jr act and be more like what he was when he started his radio show on 890 which was good. I could be wrong. To say he won't before he does a single broadcast is silly though. WBZ may have told him to tone it down as a contigent of hiring for all we know.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

No, I'm sorry, but it is true about national broadcasts, because it's true about pretty much all broadcasts. To say otherwise is just flat-out wrong. Whether it's Mike & Mike, Cowherd, or any other national broadcast, it's about conversation, not information. It has to be that way for them to survive. That's why they have the sports updates rather than just constantly rattling off the sports news.

Except I am not pointing to those specific shows. Mike and Mike is a national example of what I hate about the Big Show. Cowherd is a sports version of Rush Limbaugh (overly opinionated and gives out extreme opinions and twists facts to suit his agenda) which is also what I hate about Sports radio.

There are other shows that do go into more depth on issues. When I say information, I mean that they bring knowledge to the table and can provide insight on a subject. Not rattling off a number of stats. If you have Sirius, listen to their NFL radio and you will get a lot of more indepth (although briefer than local radio) discussion on various topics.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: WBCN axes rock format - going to all sports (on 98.5 as WBZ-FM) to compete with W

Except I am not pointing to those specific shows. Mike and Mike is a national example of what I hate about the Big Show. Cowherd is a sports version of Rush Limbaugh (overly opinionated and gives out extreme opinions and twists facts to suit his agenda) which is also what I hate about Sports radio.

There are other shows that do go into more depth on issues. When I say information, I mean that they bring knowledge to the table and can provide insight on a subject. Not rattling off a number of stats. If you have Sirius, listen to their NFL radio and you will get a lot of more indepth (although briefer than local radio) discussion on various topics.

Those shows are simply examples. National shows essentially all follow the same format (with the concession that I refuse to listen to pay radio, so that might be different), unless they are the 'alternative' which is generally on at night and revolves almost completely around callers. The difference is really based only in how many hosts are involved. As for information, unless there's a mystery show somewhere that I've never heard, I don't know what to tell you. I've listened to pretty much every sports channel on the East Coast, a fair amount in the middle of the country, and a few on the West Coast. The next successful station that follows a radically different 'information/entertainment' format from WEEI will be the first one that I've ever heard.

 

[GullyFoyle]

ESPNBoston

Anyone else excited about the launching of this site? They already have Reiss in fold and lots of resources. Im not usually a big fan of the worldwide leader but I think this could be a good thing, what with the Globe talking about becoming a paysite and the Herald being the Herald. And frankly it seems like every site you go to nowadays has their hand out begging for donations. I hope Reiss keeps up the same style and output he had at the Globe with none of ESPNs sensationalism. I hope they lots of blogs, articles, rumors and forums. kind of a catchall. But I might be disappointed. Any thoughts?