Ratings: 98.5 passes WEEI; TV: Pats games on record pace

[alamo]

Felger is the worst daytime radio host on either station, after all, and Mazz is little more than his lapdog on that show.

Except for the lapdog part I disagree with your conclusions, to the degree it made me lol. But no reason we can't just have completely different opinions about this.

but the simulcast on NESN is only going to help their cause.

I refuse to listen to D&C normally, but the simulcast will indeed help and I may sample them on Mondays because I can DVR them. I DVR the 6-7am hour of Mike&Mike on ESPN and watch it when I get up later, skipping the commercials plus as much of the show as I find to be inane. Some days I listen to almost none of it but sometimes they are interesting or have interesting guests. So I may start doing the same for D&C.

 

[Rob0729]

One other thing that has to factor in is that there are a lot of FM transmitters that don't do AM, which means if you want your sports then 98.5 is pretty much your only option. But I have to say I like that there is competition. Though I was hoping to listen to something in the morning other than friggin D&C, but Toucher & Rich are too juvenile for my tastes.

Well, they all play games with this. The Big Show claims they have a bigger audience because of the FM station in Providence combined with their AM signal, but between the two stations they reach a real a far greater distance than 98.5 can. The thing is that WEEI wasn't crying about their signal strength when they were the only game in town and the Big Show was either #1 or #2 in the market.

The fact of the matter either way, 98.5 has grown bigger and faster than most people expected especially with their afternoon drive show. Whether you can slice it that they only are better because of their signal strength or not, they are a far bigger challenge to WEEI than most people gave them credit for.

I still think the competition is good. Eventhough neither station provides a lot of quality, at least we have choices and get far more Pats talk than ever. It is mostly a choice between crap and crap from different hosts, but it is better than listening to crap from one station with 10 minute commercial breaks every 20 minutes.

 

[Rob0729]

I listen to both. He blew the article.


The main reason 98.5 has done well is that the Patriots have struggled more in the past 2 seasons than they had appeared to do for several years prior when 'viable' challengers were around. Since 98.5 focuses much more on negatives, it attracts the sort of people who rally around that.

Felger is a crap stirrer. When times are tough, people gravitate to that sort of message. If the Patriots were coming off of a great year and off to a dominating start, 98.5 would be a ghost station except when games were being played.

Yes, it helps that 98.5 is an FM station. Yes, it helps that some people are tired of the WEEI format (that's just fatigue, and it happens with every program. M*A*S*H eventually went off the air, after all). Yes, it helps that some people were pretty much captive to WEEI before, although their numbers were obviously small, given the failures of the earlier competition. Yes, it helps that they're talking a bit of hockey (of course, that's mostly because the Bruins are finally worth mentioning again, after over a decade of being nothing).

But let's not fool ourselves. 98.5 is doing well because Felger's negative positions are echoing the feelings of more Patriots and Red Sox fans. It's sure as hell not because the programming's of any quality. Felger is the worst daytime radio host on either station, after all, and Mazz is little more than his lapdog on that show.

I don't know. I am pretty sure Matty in the Morning is still the number one show in the Boston market for any time frame and he has been doing it for 30 years and is old enough to be a grandfather to his target audience. I don't know if the argument that people just get tired of a format. Teenage and early 20 something girls are still listening to a sixty year old guy in mass numbers for 30 years running.

The fact of the matter is 98.5 has shown that the WEEI way isn't the only way of doing radio. Just like 20 years ago, Ordway showed Eddie Edelman that his format was outdated and either adapt of be outsted, Ordway may have to face that same reality.

I don't think the Patriots struggling has anything to do with ratings because the Patriots homer leaning crowd (and I am not saying they are all homer, but still are on that side of center in their opinion even if it is slightly) is still far bigger than the Chicken Little leaning crowd. Just look at this board. The Fellowship of the Miserable crowd still resides mostly in the Red Sox fanbase and both stations did their fair share of trashing the Sox this season.

 

[Wolfpack]

How anyone can stand that 98.5 morning show is beyond me. It's pure garbage. Felger and Mazz makes me want to scratch my eyes out. Hockey talk makes me puke. The big show is the big whine. Dennis and Callahan do spend too much time on politics. The only show really worth listening to is Dale and Holley on WEEI.

Dale and Holley? Ugh. I can't spend 4 hours a day listening to "If the Yankees go .500 the rest of the season, then the Red Sox have to go 41-27 to catch them. But if the Rays go .600 the rest of the season, and the rooster crows at midnight, and Jupiter rises in Virgo, then the Sox only have to go 38-30 to win the Wild Card..." (etc.)

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't know. I am pretty sure Matty in the Morning is still the number one show in the Boston market for any time frame and he has been doing it for 30 years and is old enough to be a grandfather to his target audience. I don't know if the argument that people just get tired of a format. Teenage and early 20 something girls are still listening to a sixty year old guy in mass numbers for 30 years running.

There are exceptions to every rule. Also, some top level people in the entertainment fields are able to continue to bring in new audience members that offset those they lose. There's a reason that TV shows generally have a short shelf life, though.

The fact of the matter is 98.5 has shown that the WEEI way isn't the only way of doing radio. Just like 20 years ago, Ordway showed Eddie Edelman that his format was outdated and either adapt of be outsted, Ordway may have to face that same reality.

That had already been shown. The difference is that previous competition, while being different from WEEI, had still failed.

I don't think the Patriots struggling has anything to do with ratings because the Patriots homer leaning crowd (and I am not saying they are all homer, but still are on that side of center in their opinion even if it is slightly) is still far bigger than the Chicken Little leaning crowd. Just look at this board. The Fellowship of the Miserable crowd still resides mostly in the Red Sox fanbase and both stations did their fair share of trashing the Sox this season.

I have to assume you're kidding with this, since complaining about the Red Sox/Patriots/Basketball in general is pretty much all that Felger does, outside of supporting a slighly resurgent hockey crowd. It's his schtick.

As for looking at this board, I don't see where you're trying to go with that. There's a group of ostriches that is always ready to stick its collective head in the sane, a group of Chicken Littles that is always ready to scream "we suck" the moment a 3 yard pass is completed against the defense in the first quarter, and a group that falls in the middle. All three groups feature prominently.

 

[Rob0729]

There are exceptions to every rule. Also, some top level people in the entertainment fields are able to continue to bring in new audience members that offset those they lose. There's a reason that TV shows generally have a short shelf life, though.

I don't know. You look at radio trends and listeners are very loyal. You look at most of the big names in the Boston Radio market and they are the same names from 10 or 20 years ago. Matt Siegel, Howie Carr, Loren and Wally, Greg Hill, etc. still are among the top radio talent in this town. Howard Stern would still be huge in this market and any market he was in if he didn't decide to abandon terrestial radio for a huge satellite deal. Unlike television, there is more of connection with radio personalities and people listen forever to them.

That had already been shown. The difference is that previous competition, while being different from WEEI, had still failed.

WEEI has never really been challenged since the competition in the past were either on stations with signal strength so poor you couldn't get more than a few miles out of the city (1510AM, 790Am) or a different market like Providence (The Score). 98.5 is the only legitimate competiton WEEI has ever had. I mean during daylight savings time, Felger's show on 790 would cut out at sundown anywhere south of Boston. If any of the previous stations had the signal strength to get mass coverage, we might have talked about this several years ago. None of them did and that is why they failed.

I have to assume you're kidding with this, since *****ing is pretty much all that Felger does.

I am talking about the audience. I don't think the general audience attitudes have changed. I think most people are pretty positive about the team. Most of Felger's supporters on this board don't even agree with a lot or even most of his positions, but just like how he treats the topics, his callers, and his ability to admit he is wrong.

 

[Disco Volante]

People actually like Tony Massarotti?

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't know. You look at radio trends and listeners are very loyal. You look at most of the big names in the Boston Radio market and they are the same names from 10 or 20 years ago. Matt Siegel, Howie Carr, Loren and Wally, Greg Hill, etc. still are among the top radio talent in this town. Howard Stern would still be huge in this market and any market he was in if he didn't decide to abandon terrestial radio for a huge satellite deal. Unlike television, there is more of connection with radio personalities and people listen forever to them.

People hold onto large shares because they are able to bring in new fans to replace the old. It's a skill that some have and others don't. For many, once things get stale for the initial audience, it's all over.

WEEI has never really been challenged since the competition in the past were either on stations with signal strength so poor you couldn't get more than a few miles out of the city (1510AM, 790Am) or a different market like Providence (The Score). 98.5 is the only legitimate competiton WEEI has ever had.

Was ESPN kicking the tar out of WEEI among those within signal range? Was The Score?

I am talking about the audience. I don't think the general audience attitudes have changed. I think most people are pretty positive about the team. Most of Felger's supporters on this board don't even agree with a lot or even most of his positions, but just like how he treats the topics, his callers, and his ability to admit he is wrong.

Same people. Same audience. The callers are pretty good reflections of that, really. "Felger, I always thought you were a d-bag, but you were right about Moss" is the type of negative caller that Felger is trolling for, and gets.

As for the supporters of Felger on this board, I'll leave that alone. It's just not worth the effort to go there.

 

[Deus Irae]

People actually like Tony Massarotti?

He's Felger's Min Pin, but he's still the better sports guy. That's one of the more bizarre aspects of that show. Massarotti actually takes the time to become informed and capable of holding an actual conversation on the topics, yet Felger, who displays less actual sports knowledge than almost any sportsradio host alive, is the driving engine on that show.

 

[Hoodie]

I'm glad 98.5 is giving them a run for their money. The Big Show was pretty smug about the competition when they first started.

I admit that I flip back and forth between the two. Can't stand Ordway Smerlas and DeOssie especially when they start giving their political opinions. You don't get that with Felger and Mazz (though Mazz's voice continues to grate.) I do tune in to listen to Coach but it doesn't bother me that they don't challenge him. He is who he is.

I do like Holley and Merloni (Lou can speak knowledgeably about all sports and he's local so we support the same teams.) I also enjoy listening to Troy Brown and Christian Fauria on the pregame show. Not only do they know the game, I enjoy hearing them talk about what when on when they were on the team.

 

[Rob0729]

People hold onto large shares because they are able to bring in new fans to replace the old. It's a skill that some have and others don't. For many, once things get stale for the initial audience, it's all over.

Their core base stays the same. They add listeners when listeners drop off, but you cannot do an 80-100% turnover in listenership in less than a few decades and still be a top radio personality. There just isn't enough listeners.

Was ESPN kicking the tar out of WEEI among those within signal range? Was The Score?

ESPN never had the same signal strength as WEEI. Plus, they were a national focused show other than Felger who couldn't even compete with daylight savings time because his signal strength was so low that it wasn't strong enough to get to the South Shore in dark.

As for The Score, it was a Providence based station and barely reached Boston. Two different markets.

Same people. Same audience. The callers are pretty good reflections of that, really. "Felger, I always thought you were a d-bag, but you were right about Moss" is the type of negative caller that Felger is trolling for, and gets.

As for the supporters of Felger on this board, I'll leave that alone. It's just not worth the effort to go there.

Half the people who call 98.5 are directly opposed to Felger and Mazz's opinions. As for their audience, we are both speculating because neither of us know how they feel about the Pats. But based on their calls, they clearly aren't all the fellowship of the miserable.

As for supporters of Felger comment, I can say similiar things about Ordway supporters.

 

[Deus Irae]

Their core base stays the same. They add listeners when listeners drop off, but you cannot do an 80-100% turnover in listenership in less than a few decades and still be a top radio personality. There just isn't enough listeners.

The core base ebbs and flows, even among the best hosts. That's why someone like Limbaugh/Stern is so extraordinary. They are able to replenish the 'stock' on a national level.

ESPN never had the same signal strength as WEEI. Plus, they were a national focused show other than Felger who couldn't even compete with daylight savings time because his signal strength was so low that it wasn't strong enough to get to the South Shore in dark.

As for The Score, it was a Providence based station and barely reached Boston. Two different markets.

You argued signal strength and market. I asked whether those stations were winning in their areas. Your response doesn't address that, so there doesn't seem to be reason to continue on this point. There was, clearly, earlier competition. That competition was trounced. The "How" and "why" may be subject to question, but the "What happened" remains.

Half the people who call 98.5 are directly opposed to Felger and Mazz's opinions. As for their audience, we are both speculating because neither of us know how they feel about the Pats. But based on their calls, they clearly aren't all the fellowship of the miserable.

Pretty much all talk shows have pro and con callers. However, given that Felger calls his own audience out as part of the "footy pajama crowd", I don't consider what I've posted to be speculation. As for those callers not being "the fellowship of the miserable", you must be kidding. The 98.5 callers, as a group are far more miserable and negative than the WEEI callers. What's funny is that Felger STILL calls them "footy pajama wearers", because he's stoking the fires of negative coverage as much as he can.

That's how he's chosen to go about building his audience.

As for supporters of Felger comment, I can say similiar things about Ordway supporters.

Really? I don't know who those supporters are, since they don't post on this stuff at the drop of a hat the way the hypersensitive pro/anti Felger people do, so I couldn't say. However, since I didn't say anything in my post about Felger supporters on the board other than it's just not worth the effort to go there, I don't have any idea what "things" you're referring to in your post.

 

[Lansdowne]

Tony Massarotti sounds like Mickey Rooney.

Dale Arnold sounds like Ned Flanders.

Bob Neumeier is the worst and I am so glad he left WEEI.

 

[Rob0729]

The core base ebbs and flows, even among the best hosts. That's why someone like Limbaugh/Stern is so extraordinary. They are able to replenish the 'stock' on a national level.

The markets are only so big. Guys like Matt Siegel, Howie Carr, Greg Hill, etc. remain on top or near the top because of their core audience that doesn't change much with additional listeners who replace the ones who outgrow the program, move, die, whatever. There is not enough audience to replace the audience in near total and still be a top personality.

You argued signal strength and market. I asked whether those stations were winning in their areas. Your response doesn't address that, so there doesn't seem to be reason to continue on this point. There was, clearly, earlier competition. That competition was trounced. The "How" and "why" may be subject to question, but the "What happened" remains.

I heard 790 was pretty popular in Burlington which was basically their market on a rainy or cloudy day. So yes. They were successful in their markets. The problem is you can't survive only being in that market. Their problem is that people who couldn't get their signal refused to listen to the station which was pretty close minded of that audience. Seriously, you are going to say signal strength is irrelevant especially with 790 which could be knocked out by darkness?

Pretty much all talk shows have pro and con callers. However, given that Felger calls his own audience out as part of the "footy pajama crowd", I don't consider what I've posted to be speculation. As for those callers not being "the fellowship of the miserable", you must be kidding. The 98.5 callers, as a group are far more miserable and negative than the WEEI callers. What's funny is that Felger STILL calls them "footy pajama wearers", because he's stoking the fires of negative coverage as much as he can.

That's how he's chosen to go about building his audience.

First, Ordway tends to not let any rational negative person on the radio show. He only lets the lunatic fringe of negative callers (Dakota from Braintree who is an Ordway plant and good friend anyway and Steve from Fall River) so he can trash them. His call screener probably screens out any rational negative person because he can't trash them.

Second, I think Felger allows more diverse callers and except for one moron Cowboys fan from the Cape, blocks all the lunatic fringe. That means they will be more negative callers.

Third. you probably shouldn't trash how Felger builds an audience considering his is wildly successful in a little more than a year. Whether if you like him or not, the guy knows how to build buzz about him and an audience.

Really? I don't know who those supporters are, since they don't post on this stuff at the drop of a hat the way the hypersensitive pro/anti Felger people do, so I couldn't say. However, since I didn't say anything in my post about Felger supporters on the board other than it's just not worth the effort to go there, I don't have any idea what "things" you're referring to in your post.

Considering I have been trashing Felger for a long while, I guess I don't really know what you are talking about. But I can say a lot of Ordway supports react the same way except their reaction is to come to these threads and call him a douche or some other insult. Similiar reaction.

The fact of the matter is Felger and Mazz are wildly successful and are eating away at Ordway and company. The trend seems to be continuing and many listeners are tired of Ordway's act. If you or I like it or not, that is the trend. Ordway could react or he may end up going the way of Eddie Edelman. Like Edelman was at the time he was phased out, Ordway carries a huge salary and will be required to keep up his numbers or see himself replaced by a younger and cheaper replacement.

 

[Disco Volante]

He's Felger's Min Pin, but he's still the better sports guy.

When ever I see his name I just think of this awful article.

As you are a member of the public, we strongly urge you to review all media stories (particularly this continuously developing one) with a cynical and skeptical eye. Try to discern which members of the media show up to work wearing Patriots Super Bowl jackets, and which of your pathetic, repressed middle-aged neighbors wear their Tedy Bruschi jerseys on Sundays.

 

[Deus Irae]

The markets are only so big. Guys like Matt Siegel, Howie Carr, Greg Hill, etc. remain on top or near the top because of their core audience that doesn't change much with additional listeners who replace the ones who outgrow the program, move, die, whatever. There is not enough audience to replace the audience in near total and still be a top personality.

If this was true, radio would be dead. Demographics would have killed it already. Either you're way off the deep end on this, or you're misunderstanding my point. Either way, it boils down simply. You have to replace what you lose, while not completely alienating your bosses and pissing off your base. Those that do, stick around. Those that don't become the Fabulous Sports Babe. I'll leave it at that, because this is really a bit of a tangent, anyway.

I heard 790 was pretty popular in Burlington which was basically their market on a rainy or cloudy day. So yes. They were successful in their markets. The problem is you can't survive only being in that market. Their problem is that people who couldn't get their signal refused to listen to the station which was pretty close minded of that audience. Seriously, you are going to say signal strength is irrelevant especially with 790 which could be knocked out by darkness?

No offense, but what you heard doesn't help, since we'd need actual data to really discuss it. And signal strength is relevant outside the signal range. It's not so very important within that signal range. As long as I'm within WFAN's range and happy with that station, for example, I'm not going to say "I'm going to turn on W___", because I can get it in North Carolina." I'm going to say "I'll need to find another station to listen to, once I get to North Carolina".

First, Ordway tends to not let any rational negative person on the radio show. He only lets the lunatic fringe of negative callers (Dakota from Braintree who is an Ordway plant and good friend anyway and Steve from Fall River) so he can trash them. His call screener probably screens out any rational negative person because he can't trash them.

This claim is simply not true.

Second, I think Felger allows more diverse callers and except for one moron Cowboys fan from the Cape, blocks all the lunatic fringe. That means they will be more negative callers.

This too, is untrue. There are plenty of "lunatic fringe" calls on Felger's show. Felger doesn't keep as many around as pets though. That much is correct.

Third. you probably shouldn't trash how Felger builds an audience considering his is wildly successful in a little more than a year. Whether if you like him or not, the guy knows how to build buzz about him and an audience.

I'm not trashing how he builds his audience. I'm pointing out how he does it, and discussing why it's been successful, to date. It's a business, and his schtick is working so far at his new station.

Considering I have been trashing Felger for a long while, I guess I don't really know what you are talking about. But I can say a lot of Ordway supports react the same way except their reaction is to come to these threads and call him a douche or some other insult. Similiar reaction.

I'm not sure where your coming from on this, since I've not seen it to be the case on this site. While Ordway is the gregarious, occasionally buffoonish, "fan", Felger is a douche. His supporters acknowledge that. It's part of his act. One needn't be an Ordway supporter to consider Felger a douche. One simply needs to have heard Felger speak at some point in the past few years.

The fact of the matter is Felger and Mazz are wildly successful and are eating away at Ordway and company. The trend seems to be continuing and many listeners are tired of Ordway's act. If you or I like it or not, that is the trend. Ordway could react or he may end up going the way of Eddie Edelman. Like Edelman was at the time he was phased out, Ordway carries a huge salary and will be required to keep up his numbers or see himself replaced by a younger and cheaper replacement.

Baseball was down because the Red Sox weren't particularly good or competitive, and the "we need a title!" obsession has now become "we want to see definite championship-level play every year now, or else!" (Cubs ownership take note) with regards to the audience. This had an impact upon WEEI that it obviously won't have with 98.5. The Patriots, meanwhile, continue to be competitive even while offering plenty to complain about. That's perfect for a flagship station.

As for Ordway's needing to react, you're delving into an area where you're making absolutely no sense at all. WEEI has made a boatload of changes in the past couple of years, including changes with The Big Show. That's actually been a part of the problem at that station.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I just figured it out.

Deus is someone from WEEI and Rob is someone from 98.5.

 

[Rob0729]

If this was true, radio would be dead. Demographics would have killed it already. Either you're way off the deep end on this, or you're misunderstanding my point. Either way, it boils down simply. You have to replace what you lose, while not completely alienating your bosses and pissing off your base. Those that do, stick around. Those that don't become the Fabulous Sports Babe. I'll leave it at that, because this is really a bit of a tangent, anyway.

Most radio listeners are passionate about the people they listen to. They are loyal. There are new people who listen over time and some who drop off, but the core base stays. I guarantee you a majority of the people who listen to the Big Show were doing so 10 or 15 years ago.

No offense, but what you heard doesn't help, since we'd need actual data to really discuss it. And signal strength is relevant outside the signal range. It's not so very important within that signal range. As long as I'm within WFAN's range and happy with that station, for example, I'm not going to say "I'm going to turn on W___", because I can get it in North Carolina." I'm going to say "I'll need to find another station to listen to, once I get to North Carolina".

So if only 3/4 of the market can actually get the signal, arbitron adjusts the numbers to affect that. Weren't you the one who started to argue the only reason Felger and Mazz beat the Big Show was because the FM signal? The fact that people couldn't get 790AM in a lot of areas in the Boston Market is irrelevant now?

This claim is simply not true.

Prove me wrong. It is not anything that either of us know except Dakota from Braintree and other moron callers get on all the time. Dakota is a plant from Ordway (and his friend) who calls with BS just for entertainment value. Notice how Dakota doesn't call anyone else. At least Steve from Fall River and others will call anyone who will listen to them biatch.

This too, is untrue. There are plenty of "lunatic fringe" calls on Felger's show. Felger doesn't keep as many around as pets though. That much is correct.

No screener can block out all of the lunatics since they may not act like a lunatic until they get on the air. Dale and Holey have their share of lunatic fringe.

I'm not sure where your coming from on this, since I've not seen it to be the case on this site. While Ordway is the gregarious, occasionally buffoonish, "fan", Felger is a douche. His supporters acknowledge that. It's part of his act. One needn't be an Ordway supporter to consider Felger a douche. One simply needs to have heard Felger speak at some point in the past few years.

I used douche as a example. Whenever Felger is in the title of a thread, it is always followed by posts calling him everything short of Hitler.

Baseball was down because the Red Sox weren't particularly good or competitive, and the "we need a title!" obsession has now become "we want to see definite championship-level play every year now, or else!" (Cubs ownership take note) with regards to the audience. This had an impact upon WEEI that it obviously won't have with 98.5. The Patriots, meanwhile, continue to be competitive even while offering plenty to complain about. That's perfect for a flagship station.

This theory would be valid if it affected other day parts. Mike Adams beats DA (for some unknown reason). Dale and Holey kill Gresh and Zo. Dennis and Callahan kill everyone except Matty in the Morning. Only Ordway has fallen behind his 98.5 competition.

As for Ordway's needing to react, you're delving into an area where you're making absolutely no sense at all. WEEI has made a boatload of changes in the past couple of years, including changes with The Big Show. That's actually been a part of the problem at that station.

WEEI has made changes including with the Big Show, but the content and format of the Big Show hasn't changed. The biggest changes on the Big Show has been dumping Pete and making shorter commercial breaks.

 

[Rob0729]

I just figured it out.

Deus is someone from WEEI and Rob is someone from 98.5.

If I work for 98.5, I should be fired because I say they suck too just not as bad as WEEI. At least in the afternoon.

 

[IcyPatriot]

One change I think WEEI needs to make is to maove on from Fred & Steve. Fred is knowledgeable but he is to yesterday. Steve just kind of shows up and offers little compared to before. I don't know them and they seem like okay guys but they've outlived their usefulness at WEEI.

Expect some changes here ... and I'm not sure Troy Brown is the answer either. Fans don't like Borges ... yet they feel a need to have him ... he'll be gone now also.

Best way to effect media change is in the wallet ... lower ratings = less advertising revenue. competition is very welcome as these 2 compete.

Lastly ... I'd love to see Ordway go ... won't happen but he really is annoying - way to argumentative.

WEEI would flourish if they found Dale a new partner or gave him a different partner of the week or even brought Neumy back and moved Holley to the Big Show time slot.