Von Miller Torn-ACL

[BradyManny]

The Pats have been hit harder. Gronkowski is one of the best all around players in the league, and the Broncos have not lost a player who sniffs the impact he has on the game.

The Broncos have lost some good players. Miller, Vickerson, Wolfe, Clady. But Wilfork, Mayo, Kelly, Vollmer, that's just as damaging, if not worse.

But it's that Gronk injury that sends it over the top. He takes us from a middle of the pack production to #1 in the league. He is almost as important as Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. If we had him going into the playoffs, I would feel supremely confident we would represent the AFC in the SB, and pretty good about our shot to win it.

 

[BradyManny]

Let's put it this way. If you ranked the most significant season-ending injuries that either team has faced, by importance, the list would look something like this:

1. Gronk
2. Miller
3. Wilfork
4. Mayo
5. Clady
6. Vollmer
7. Kelly
8. Vickerson

I'm sure I'm missing some, but both the Pats and the Packers have been hit orders of magnitude harder by injuries than the Broncos. I'd even put a handful of other teams, including the Falcons and Bears most prominently, ahead of the Broncos. Until yesterday, the Broncos had gotten off pretty light on the injury front compared to most other teams in the NFL.

Pretty fair list, but I don't know if I'd put Miller above Vince. Miller hasn't been quite the same player as last year, and with a guy like him with small-ish frames and a PED suspension, you wonder if they will ever be the same (Merriman...). He's also a total knucklehead and I can't imagine he has the role in the lockerroom or amongst his teammates that Vince does. I also don't know if Clady is really above Vollmer, I'd call them equals.

 

[chasa]

I think overall, the Pats have been hit a little harder, but Denver isn't in too much of a different boat. Losing two starting D-Lineman, the best linebacker in the league and a starting safety...most defenses would suck after that I think.

lol a little harder

Top tier players
Gronkowski: #1 ranked tight end in the league, pro bowler
Vince Wilfork: Top 5 at his position, Pro Bowler
Jerod Mayo: Captain of the defense, Top 10 at his position, pro bowler
Vollmer: Top 10
Soldier: Top 10

Starters:
Amendola for 6 games: brought in to be the new number 1 reciever
Tommy kelly

Expected starters:
Dobson,
thompkins,
boyce: rookies all missing action due to injuries, two out of three expected to be starters
Vereen: our top 3rd down back, missing most of the season

Losing hernandez due to murder charges, mccourty going down with a concussion.

We are down to our third string in a lot of places, in case of the defensive line our 3rd string, and 4th string players are currently the starters for the rest of the season.

Our Wide receivers are basically a mash unit, with the 3 healthy starters being the 1st 2nd and 3rd string slot reciever, our tight ends are 3rd stringers as setup during the off season

Our offensive line had to move its best player still able to play to a different position because we literally ran out of players.

I would take gronk over every player the broncos have lost this year, combined.

 

[Fixit]

Let's put it this way. If you ranked the most significant season-ending injuries that either team has faced, by importance, the list would look something like this:

1. Gronk
2. Miller
3. Wilfork
4. Mayo
5. Clady
6. Vollmer
7. Kelly
8. Vickerson

I'm sure I'm missing some, but both the Pats and the Packers have been hit orders of magnitude harder by injuries than the Broncos. I'd even put a handful of other teams, including the Falcons and Bears most prominently, ahead of the Broncos. Until yesterday, the Broncos had gotten off pretty light on the injury front compared to most other teams in the NFL.

I'd flip Vince and Miller in a heartbeat.

 

[RYObroncosfan]

I can think of other teams that have taken a personnel beating, but I think the point here is that Broncos fans are maligning Patriots fans for noting their losses when, in fact, the Patriots have lost a lot more than the Broncos.

Gronk
Wilfork
Mayo


Those are all All-Pro players lost for the season, early on, due to injury.

Kelly was also lost for the season, early on, due to injury. Then we get to other starters lost for significant time (Vereen being the 3rd down back):

Amendola
Dobson
Thompkins
Vereen


That's not even counting the likes of Talib or Dennard, who missed games and are still dealing with those injuries even while playing, or Gregory, who broke his thumb, missed a little time, and is now playing while dealing with it. The value of players/games lost isn't really even close.

Also, for Broncos fans to try tossing out Von Miller's suspension when the Patriots have had the Hernandez situation is laughable.

As for the last part...the suspension was just in terms of a player who would normally be helping us not being eligible to play. Hernandez certainly won't be playing in the NFL again. The suspension definitely wouldn't be considered an "injury" though, because Von came back as healthy as ever from sitting out, not rehabbing, I agree.

Players going down and missing a few games here and there are the things only fans of their team generally notice, unless they watch multiple teams play full games. I've only missed two Pats games this year, and the rest I've seen in full. I think the misunderstanding here is people assuming I think the Pats haven't been that affected by injuries. It's been one after another this season for everyone in the NFL, and I've said over and over, the Pats have been hit the hardest.

Chalk it up to homerism I guess, but to me, losing your All-Pro blind side tackle is a pretty significant loss, losing an All-Pro LB (going forward) is a pretty significant loss, and considering the lack of depth we had to replace them, losing a starting safety and 2 starting D-Line guys are all big hits. Not the BIGGEST hit, but pretty significant nonetheless. I'm not even factoring in Welker because he's only missed a few games and should be back for the playoffs.

Regardless of anyone's stance on who's more hurt, what loss is bigger, etc. injuries are pretty clearly the worst part of football, and I think everyone would prefer for all teams to be at full strength going into the playoffs.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Ya caught me...me and my .08 posts per day since 2006 on here are a great indication that my life is a mess. I don't mind mixing it up with fans from other other teams, especially the Pats since I live in Boston...

We've lost our 2nd and 3rd best players, 2 starters on the D-Line, a starting safety, etc. etc. Yes, I think the Pats have been hit harder. No, I don't think it's a giant difference.



I haven't verified it myself, but I've heard VM's grades on PFF have been pretty solid for the most part this season. He's been consistently drawing double teams whenever I see him, and still usually has an impact on most plays. He put on some weight this offseason and I think it's messed with him a little bit, as he's been shaken up a few times this season, with this one being season-ending. For the most part, he's had a pretty big impact when he's played, though admittedly not as good as last year.

Give me top 5 LB? I'll settle for top 5.

You'd rather lose Demaryius Thomas than Ryan Clady?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Pretty fair list, but I don't know if I'd put Miller above Vince. Miller hasn't been quite the same player as last year, and with a guy like him with small-ish frames and a PED suspension, you wonder if they will ever be the same (Merriman...). He's also a total knucklehead and I can't imagine he has the role in the lockerroom or amongst his teammates that Vince does. I also don't know if Clady is really above Vollmer, I'd call them equals.

Vince wasn't the same player before he was injured either (granted, that's because he was dealing with a nagging injury already). I'm trying to be as generous as possible to the Broncos, and even then it's not close.

 

[RYObroncosfan]

Pretty fair list, but I don't know if I'd put Miller above Vince. Miller hasn't been quite the same player as last year, and with a guy like him with small-ish frames and a PED suspension, you wonder if they will ever be the same (Merriman...). He's also a total knucklehead and I can't imagine he has the role in the lockerroom or amongst his teammates that Vince does. I also don't know if Clady is really above Vollmer, I'd call them equals.

For the millionth time, Von's suspension had nothing to do with PEDs. He was just an idiot and couldn't wait a couple months to pass a drug test. Either that, or the urine collector (who was fired) had told him he'd be fine either way. Either way, it makes him an idiot, and a cheater of the system, but not of the game.

 

[RYObroncosfan]

You'd rather lose Demaryius Thomas than Ryan Clady?

Without question.

 

[Deus Irae]

As for the last part...the suspension was just in terms of a player who would normally be helping us not being eligible to play. Hernandez certainly won't be playing in the NFL again. The suspension definitely wouldn't be considered an "injury" though, because Von came back as healthy as ever from sitting out, not rehabbing, I agree.

I'm with you here. My point was that both were for things outside of the game, and both were self-imposed. Neither should really be counted when you're talking about Gronk/Clady type of losses.

Players going down and missing a few games here and there are the things only fans of their team generally notice, unless they watch multiple teams play full games. I've only missed two Pats games this year, and the rest I've seen in full. I think the misunderstanding here is people assuming I think the Pats haven't been that affected by injuries. It's been one after another this season for everyone in the NFL, and I've said over and over, the Pats have been hit the hardest.

I hear you. I wasn't really focused as much on your post as on the posts I read over in Broncos Country. I think you undersold the NE injuries in your post here, but that's the soert of difference that's pretty normal in a fan/opposing fan discussion. The way that poster over at B.C. tried to frame it though, was ridiculous, IMO.

Chalk it up to homerism I guess, but to me, losing your All-Pro blind side tackle is a pretty significant loss, losing an All-Pro LB (going forward) is a pretty significant loss, and considering the lack of depth we had to replace them, losing a starting safety and 2 starting D-Line guys are all big hits. Not the BIGGEST hit, but pretty significant nonetheless. I'm not even factoring in Welker because he's only missed a few games and should be back for the playoffs.

I agree with you. I think we're looking at a top group of:

Gronk/Mayo/Wilfork
v.
Clady/Miller

The Patriots will have lost more elite players, and for more games. That's all I was looking at. Hell, let's be honest. The Packers lost Rodgers for a big part of the season, and that's a bigger single loss than anything either the Patriots or Broncos have suffered.

Regardless of anyone's stance on who's more hurt, what loss is bigger, etc. injuries are pretty clearly the worst part of football, and I think everyone would prefer for all teams to be at full strength going into the playoffs.

Pretty much, this. While I understand that injuries are part of the game, it's the one part I hate most. It makes even the greatest team building useless if they hit the wrong player or two.

 

[RYObroncosfan]

I'm with you here. My point was that both were for things outside of the game, and both were self-imposed. Neither should really be counted when you're talking about Gronk/Clady type of losses.



I hear you. I wasn't really focused as much on your post as on the posts I read over in Broncos Country. I think you undersold the NE injuries in your post here, but that's the soert of difference that's pretty normal in a fan/opposing fan discussion. The way that poster over at B.C. tried to frame it though, was ridiculous, IMO.



I agree with you. I think we're looking at a top group of:

Gronk/Mayo/Wilfork
v.
Clady/Miller

The Patriots will have lost more elite players, and for more games. That's all I was looking at. Hell, let's be honest. The Packers lost Rodgers for a big part of the season, and that's a bigger single loss than anything either the Patriots or Broncos have suffered.



Pretty much, this. While I understand that injuries are part of the game, it's the one part I hate most. It makes even the greatest team building useless if they hit the wrong player or two.

I think this sums it up. I'll change my stance after reading this stuff on here from you guys have been hit a little harder, to you have been hit harder.

And you're right; that the Packers may make the playoffs without Rodgers for that stretch is pretty remarkable.

 

[BradyManny]

For the millionth time, Von's suspension had nothing to do with PEDs. He was just an idiot and couldn't wait a couple months to pass a drug test. Either that, or the urine collector (who was fired) had told him he'd be fine either way. Either way, it makes him an idiot, and a cheater of the system, but not of the game.

Didn't he also test positive for amphetamines?

 

[RYObroncosfan]

Didn't he also test positive for amphetamines?

I don't think it was ever confirmed, just a rumor. Let's assume he did though...amphetamines don't create any mental or physical energy, but they do provide extra alertness. I don't really consider all the Seahawks suspended for adderall to be cheaters, just idiots. I would limit the cheaters to those actually beefing up and bulking up using HGH and steroids. That's just my opinion though, and we can agree to disagree on that.

Cheating the test is ridiculous though and he deserved the suspension. Deserving a suspension and deserving an injury though are two different things, as are being suspended for cheating the test and being an elite player.

 

[obgod3]

For the millionth time, Von's suspension had nothing to do with PEDs. He was just an idiot and couldn't wait a couple months to pass a drug test. Either that, or the urine collector (who was fired) had told him he'd be fine either way. Either way, it makes him an idiot, and a cheater of the system, but not of the game.

Well that's not entirely true and the real truth is somewhere in between. But the deal is he tried to manipulate the test both of them, so the conclusion is why would you do that? Only reason to try to do that is because you already know your going to get busted. Word on the street here in Denver was he would have been busted regardless.

Regardless he isnt nearly the loss a Vince Wilfork or Gronk, Denver will be fine without him, the Defensive line of the Broncos is not their issue, it is the inconsistent LB play in coverage and the terrible defensive backfield in coverage.

 

[BradyManny]

Cheating the test is ridiculous though and he deserved the suspension. Deserving a suspension and deserving an injury though are two different things, as are being suspended for cheating the test and being an elite player.

Fair enough. I've made some assumptions about him that I can't verify.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

These Bronco fans are hilarious. Manning had all his weapons for 12/16 games. Champ Bailey sucks now. Vickerson/Moore/Wolfe are average players at best. In total, they've lost two valuable players: Miller and Clady.

Exactly. Broncos fans are pathetic. And I bet lots of them aren't even real Broncos fans. They're Goober-fluffers.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I don't think it was ever confirmed, just a rumor. Let's assume he did though...amphetamines don't create any mental or physical energy, but they do provide extra alertness. I don't really consider all the Seahawks suspended for adderall to be cheaters, just idiots. I would limit the cheaters to those actually beefing up and bulking up using HGH and steroids. That's just my opinion though, and we can agree to disagree on that.

Cheating the test is ridiculous though and he deserved the suspension. Deserving a suspension and deserving an injury though are two different things, as are being suspended for cheating the test and being an elite player.

Personally, I don't even consider HGH users cheaters, since the league doesn't test for it and we can reasonably assume that probably 75+% of players use it. The only way to get caught is to pull a Rodney Harrison and have it shipped to your house, pretty much.

We don't actually know that the Seahawks guys were suspended for Adderall though, do we? Since the league doesn't disclose, that's just what everyone claims, but they could have all been nailed for steroids, for all that we know. It was the same thing when Spikes and Bolden got nailed last year for the Pats. Everyone's go-to excuse is that they should have had a prescription for their Adderall, but come on. We're not really that naive, I'd hope.

 

[obgod3]

Every fan base is passionate about their team so we should take it easy on the guys who what to come to the Pats boards. I hate to see injuries to any player, it just is not as much fun to watch football when the best players are sidelined. Hope Von gets better, regardless if he likes his weed, sorry had to add that, anyway just like all the injured Pats I hope everyone gets well and has a great holiday.

Its just a game, there are folks deployed in danger to protect our way of life.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Pats were hit a "little harder". That's hilarious.

Get the hell out of here, you're only supporting the fact that Broncos fans are absolute idiots.

You have 234 posts on a team forum that you don't even cheer for? Do you have a life?

Why don't you just post your facts and opinions and let Ian and the moderators decide who's a "troll" and who "get's the hell out of here".
We do welcome good posters that are fans from other teams.

 

[Lansdowne]

Nobody outside of Patriots fans feel sorry for the Patriots when we lose our guys, so I can't bring myself to feel bad for the Broncos to lose their best defensive player, a guy who got off easy with his suspension. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. Miller will recover in time for 2014, and hopefully his teammates can soon join him in watching the Super Bowl from home.