Understanding Pats FA: great Lombardi's takes on the Ringer

[long distance]

20 minutes well worth listening

Some notes:
- embrace FA
- in FA you're gonna overpay, the question is who and by how much . and that it is for a player that will carry locker room - this is the way we (Pats) will do it
- free agency can kill culture / locker room
- when you get overpaid you lose mental toughness - its human nature
- if i can keep the player off the field by formation I don’t pay him
- sometimes teams use franchise tag (re Rams) because of cash flow (they start paying tag only in September)

On the Combine and testing:
-- we've all been fooled in the past here at Combine with athleticism - really by steroids. You have to have more chances to test them - and this is also why workouts at Combine are important - what could happen is a player comes to combine, not work out, then do extensive training program utilising a lot of different substancies, have a great Pro Day and boom..


Since this is the intro session bears following next editions in the following days..

__

Let me add two of his quotes on Hightower from Reiss article here as well:

“What they’re going to do with Hightower, and what they do with a lot of these guys, is let the player see his market value. Because if he’s out there on the market, and he does come back at a deal that he feels is worthwhile -- like Devin McCourty came back and other players have come back -- then the player isn’t upset that he feels like he’s gotten ripped off. He’s out there on the market, he knows what his value is, his agent has laid it out: ‘You can get X amount from this team, X amount from the Patriots, you make the call.’”

“I think it a healthy way to negotiate and it’s not fearful of losing the player. And it keeps your locker room a lot cleaner and a lot healthier in terms of ‘You’re paying this guy what?’ Not a lot is paid attention to that.“

 

[luuked]

Lombardi is always worth the time.. one of the most insightful and entertaining analysts..

Since this is the intro session bears following next editions in the following days..

I think the other sessions this week are not with Lombardi though.. at least that's how I understood Mays..

 

[long distance]

Lombardi is always worth the time.. one of the most insightful and entertaining analysts..



I think the other sessions this week are not with Lombardi though.. at least that's how I understood Mays..

a pity . maybe he comes back at the end
but he's all over . media grabbing him . esp. with such a big Patriots FA coming..

 

[Love The Drake]

I think we should trade 32nd pick for Brandin Cooks

 

[Hammer of Thor]

“What they’re going to do with Hightower, and what they do with a lot of these guys, is let the player see his market value. Because if he’s out there on the market, and he does come back at a deal that he feels is worthwhile -- like Devin McCourty came back and other players have come back -- then the player isn’t upset that he feels like he’s gotten ripped off. He’s out there on the market, he knows what his value is, his agent has laid it out: ‘You can get X amount from this team, X amount from the Patriots, you make the call.’”

“I think it a healthy way to negotiate and it’s not fearful of losing the player. And it keeps your locker room a lot cleaner and a lot healthier in terms of ‘You’re paying this guy what?’ Not a lot is paid attention to that.“

Very interesting, but I wonder if that's a recent shift in philosophy? They've been prolific users of the franchise tag in the past -- obviously Matt Cassel in 2009 was a unique situation, but you had Gostkowski in 2015, Welker in 2012, Mankins in 2011, Wilfork in 2010, Samuel in 2007, Vinatieri in 2005 and 2002, and Tebucky Jones in 2003. Maybe they came to this solution because they had unhappy experiences in the past? What if the Hightower tag was $11M instead of the ~$15M, would they have used it then, "goodwill" be damned?

 

[KingChre]

I think we should trade 32nd pick for Brandin Cooks

Just curious why you would pay that much for him? He's only under contract for 1 year plus a club option and then he is going to want big time money. They just won the Super Bowl with a 4th round pick, a 7th round pick, and two UDFAs as their receiving corps. I don't believe that spending a 1st round pick on Cooks is good value here.

I actually like the player a lot, but given his contract situation, I don't think I would pay much more than a 4th round pick for him given the Patriots' needs at other positions.

 

[luuked]

Very interesting, but I wonder if that's a recent shift in philosophy? They've been prolific users of the franchise tag in the past -- obviously Matt Cassel in 2009 was a unique situation, but you had Gostkowski in 2015, Welker in 2012, Mankins in 2011, Wilfork in 2010, Samuel in 2007, Vinatieri in 2005 and 2002, and Tebucky Jones in 2003. Maybe they came to this solution because they had unhappy experiences in the past? What if the Hightower tag was $11M instead of the ~$15M, would they have used it then, "goodwill" be damned?

The majority of those were before the new CBA and increase in salary cap. Also if you believe what Curran said in one of his Quick Slant podcasts the way Welker slacked off through the summer when he was playing on a tag then maybe this contributed to BB not being particularly pleased using it.

Ghost obviously is special case anyway.

 

[Love The Drake]

Just curious why you would pay that much for him? He's only under contract for 1 year plus a club option and then he is going to want big time money. They just won the Super Bowl with a 4th round pick, a 7th round pick, and two UDFAs as their receiving corps. I don't believe that spending a 1st round pick on Cooks is good value here.

I actually like the player a lot, but given his contract situation, I don't think I would pay much more than a 4th round pick for him given the Patriots' needs at other positions.

Well great question first off at receiver speed kills add a whole different element for the defense to respect.
My main reason is I recall the praise Belichick had for him and the fits he gave Butler and Ryan in joint practices.
Plus I dont see a sure fire better player at 32 then Cooks has proven to the league and BB that he is.
Now that being said it most likely wont happen but Id rather trade for Cooks then sign D Jax but thats certainly a viable option if he comes reasonable which I dont think he will.

 

[long distance]

 

[Love The Drake]

Nevermind

 

[Keyser Söze]

I think we should trade 32nd pick for Brandin Cooks

That doesn't make much sense for us at all...

 

[Deus Irae]

Very interesting, but I wonder if that's a recent shift in philosophy? They've been prolific users of the franchise tag in the past -- obviously Matt Cassel in 2009 was a unique situation, but you had Gostkowski in 2015, Welker in 2012, Mankins in 2011, Wilfork in 2010, Samuel in 2007, Vinatieri in 2005 and 2002, and Tebucky Jones in 2003. Maybe they came to this solution because they had unhappy experiences in the past? What if the Hightower tag was $11M instead of the ~$15M, would they have used it then, "goodwill" be damned?

It's more a case of crafting an argument that fits the move. We see that all the time with coverage of this team, and with the team itself. For example, "No days off!" might have been the mantra this year, but we've all seen BB and the Patriots give players a bunch of days off in other seasons.

 

[Ring 6]

Well great question first off at receiver speed kills add a whole different element for the defense to respect.
My main reason is I recall the praise Belichick had for him and the fits he gave Butler and Ryan in joint practices.
Plus I dont see a sure fire better player at 32 then Cooks has proven to the league and BB that he is.
Now that being said it most likely wont happen but Id rather trade for Cooks then sign D Jax but thats certainly a viable option if he comes reasonable which I dont think he will.

We are all set at WR. We don't need to waste capital on the position.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

It's more a case of crafting an argument that fits the move. We see that all the time with coverage of this team, and with the team itself. For example, "No days off!" might have been the mantra this year, but we've all seen BB and the Patriots give players a bunch of days off in other seasons.

Yeah -- I agree with you here. I didn't say it explicitly, but it was definitely in my mind when I made the comment about the tag being $11M. Basically, the idea is that there is no real shift in philosophy, just what they think is right in this particular instance, and they're trying to justify it by creating a narrative which makes it seem like this is something they always do and would always do.

"Oh, we're going to let Hightower test the market, because we want the player to be happy, to feel satisfied that he got a good deal, which makes him happy in the clubhouse, willing to lead, and we do this with a lot of guys. That's how we do things around here, that's how we're different. Oh wait, you said Hightower's franchise tag cost is $8M and not $15M like we thought? Eff that crap, we're franchising him!"

 

[Love The Drake]

I said nevermind when I saw he wanted top money and a new contract

 

[zydecochris]

Lombardi is always worth the time.. one of the most insightful and entertaining analysts..



I think the other sessions this week are not with Lombardi though.. at least that's how I understood Mays..

Bill Simmons hired Lombardi for the Ringer about a month or two back. Great move IMHO, as I have always found Lombardi to be the best listen of any football analysts I have ever heard, at least on podcasts (I haven't really watched his TV gigs).

I think that the plan is to ultimately have Lombardi figure out his own Ringer venue, in the interim he just does occasional brief guest appearances on the other Ringer NFL podcasts.

 

[varjao]

Lombardi is always a great listen, and 2 things always happens when he gives his take, he praises the Patriots and use them as a good example of running things and trash the Rams and use them as an example of what teams shouldn't do.

Really, the Rams are utter garbage.

 

[luuked]

Lombardi is always a great listen, and 2 things always happens when he gives his take, he praises the Patriots and use them as a good example of running things and trash the Rams and use them as an example of what teams shouldn't do.

Really, the Rams are utter garbage.

Everything considered he is pretty objective about the Patriots. He had been bashing the defense early in the year. Given everywhere he has been and how long he has been around the league he is certainly no Patriots homer or shill. With all that said.

I am not sure there is a person in the NFL right now that he respects more than BB and how he build his program in NE. He is one of the few that unequivocally gives this organization the praise it deserves top-to-bottom.

 

[AzorianPats]

I think we should trade 32nd pick for Brandin Cooks

Yea and not draft Christian McCaffrey? No thanks!

 

[long distance]

Some corresponding thoughts by Curran

Curran: Expect Patriots to browse while others dive into free agency