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Tully Banta Cain

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by crowell33, Dec 20, 2009.

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  1. crowell33

    crowell33 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Been a while since the Patriots have had a pass rusher as effective as Tully Banta Cain. TBC's 8.5 sacks (with 2 games left), is 1. More sacks than Richard Seymour has EVER had during any one season of his career, 2. More sacks than Mike Vrabel has in the last 2 seasons ( 2008-2009 ) combined (6), and 3. More sacks than Adalius Thomas has in the last 2 seasons ( 2008 - 2009 ) combined, (8). Keep in mind, aside from maybe Mike Wright, there is absolutely no one else offenses have to account for, on passing downs, against the Patriots.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2009
  2. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    He is one of the best suprises of the season. I think we should stop calling him an overacheiving JAG, he is a great pass rusher.
     
  3. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    This is false. They have to account for Burgess and for Green. Unfortunately, Green hasn't been as effective as a full time player as he was as a 3rd down rusher.

    One of the things to remember is that the Pats defense isn't predicated on the sack. It's predicated on getting pressure on the QB and forcing turnovers via interceptions. So, you throwing up sack numbers is pretty stupid. Not to mention, comparing the numbers of a 3-4 DE in Seymour to a 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB is disingenuous.
     
  4. Marqui

    Marqui In the Starting Line-Up

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    It would be cool if he all of a sudden turned into a DPoY OLB at age 30 like James Harrison did :singing:.
     
  5. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I like TBC, but this post is pretty flawed with the comparisons.

    1.) Seymour commands double teams frequently and played DE in a 2-gap system, which doesn't lead to many sacks.

    2.) Vrabel is at the tail end of his career, comparing that to TBC entering his prime doesn't make sense to me. I'll take Vrabel in his prime over TBC.
     
  6. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

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    Agreed.

    Still, TBC has been a savior this year. Awesome pick[back]up by BB
     
  7. farn

    farn 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I am also pleased with TBC's progress... I'm not certain "great pass rusher" is the exact evaluation at this point.
     
  8. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    TBC has surprised a lot of people, but I don't know if I'd call him a "great" pass rusher. He's been solid, our best pass rusher, but I don't think he's an elite guy. Maybe he'll continue to develop into one. I sure hope so.

    But I loved his signing. I know a lot of people called him a JAG, but these under-rated signings are one of my fav things about the off-season. He had some familiarity with our system, we didn't give up anything to get him, and we signed him for the bare minimum. What's not to like there?

    Even with the contract extension, Miguel has him in the books for under $1.4 million each season for the next 2 seasons. Is that right??? Because that's fantastic value for our best pass rusher to be signed for so little. I know the cap number might not matter as much if there is an uncapped year, but considering how much pass rushers cost in the free agent market, quite a deal.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2009
  9. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    i can only imagine if he had Richard with him....
     
  10. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

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    Today made his numbers awesome I guess, but he's not disruptive enough to be called elite.

    Maybe the recent upward play of Burgess has helped him out. I said it before, but I really liked how BB had his guys standing up today, it really helped mismatch them with our speed.
     
  11. Mosi Moose

    Mosi Moose On the Game Day Roster

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    Would really really love to add someone like a TBC to compliment him next year. Thought Burgess was gonna be that guy, but he he's not it, although he has improved.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2009
  12. crowell33

    crowell33 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Seymour is a DE in a 4 man front this season and yet has less than half the sacks of TBC this season. Although I would agree Seymour is well past his prime. ( and so is Vrabel ).
     
  13. jsull87

    jsull87 In the Starting Line-Up

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    It was only a week ago people on this board were calling him one of the worst olb's in the league. A good game turns some people around pretty fast. He has been our best pass rusher all year and he had another good game today. 8.5 sacks is a good season... no need for james harrison talk. but still a good season with 2 more games to go. I'd like do see him reach the double digits
     
  14. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I think TBC did a nice job today and has had a solid-ish season, but he's not more than an above-average player overall. It's not a good sign that he's our best pass-rusher. He strikes me as the kind of talent who should be your 3rd best pass-rusher at best. Hope I'm wrong. Did well in pass-rush mode today, don't think he - or anyone else - was impressive at all in maintaining the edge.
     
  15. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    The Pats don't need an ELITE pass rusher. They need OLBs (3-4)/ DEs (4-3) who can allow the Pats to bring consistent pressure from different angles. That is how the Pats were effective today.. Bringing the rush from different angles..
     
  16. SyN65

    SyN65 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    He's DECENT. He's not great, at all. His stats are heavily padded against TERRIBLE teams. If you look at his stats for the year almost all of his stats have come from playing buffalo and the jets, 2 teams with inexperience at QB. Lets see him step up and make some plays against better teams, then I'll be impressed.
     
  17. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Two words: Veteran Minimum.

    He is what he is. An incredible value for the price.
     
  18. jays52

    jays52 In the Starting Line-Up

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    He's more than decent, holmes. He has improved markedly since his departure from the team. He has taken his game to a much higher level with a full compliment of veteran pass moves. I think that getting after the golden boy is less about freakish athleticism and more about having a full compliment of moves. Knowing how to set up finesse with power and vice versa. Knowing how hand technique creates opportunites even when countered. Knowing how to take advantage of momentum and body positioning. In essence, high level pass rushing is very close to judo. It is taking advantage of your opponent's balance at an opportune time. If you get really good at it, you learn to accelerate through a move much like a great reciever learns to accelerate through a cut or a plant step.

    TBC is not a freakish guy like a Freeny or some of the archeotype 34 OLB's, but he gets the job done. Your argument is too heavily predicated upon stats and cursory observation. Watch him play, learn his moves, understand how he utilizes leverage and hand technique, appreciate his tenacity. He's not elite, but an educated observer respects the hell out of his game this season.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2009
  19. WelshPat

    WelshPat Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    The thing is, 5 of those 8.5 sacks have been against 1 team, who happen to have the worst O-Line in the league.

    TBC is so much better than when he played for us before though. I stlll have nightmares about that play against the Jags when he didn't touch MJD down...

    ^Yeah Jay i agree with you he's not making any pro bowls but he's a good starter
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2009
  20. patsfan55

    patsfan55 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #95 Jersey

    EXACTLY..something my old boy Willie used to do all the time
     
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