Tom Brady, NFLPA Granted 14-Day Extension To File Motion For Rehearing By Second Circuit Court

[letekro]

Tony, whereever you are. Thanks for adding to the discourse as per usual.

Edit: there you are. I think it says "at the end of the first half" or "start of halftime"

 

[Tony2046]

Quoted from the Wells Report itself..
During the second quarter of the AFC Championship Game, a ball thrown by
Tom Brady was intercepted by a player for the Colts and the ball was taken to the
Colts sideline. On the sideline, Colts equipment personnel used a pressure gauge
to measure the inflation level of the ball, determined that it was below the
minimum 12.5 psi level and informed a game official and other NFL personnel.
Prior to the game, Colts personnel had notified the NFL that they suspected that
the Patriots might be deflating game balls below the minimum level permissible
under the Playing Rules, although they did not support their suspicions with any

That ball was measured at two different times.

Once on the sideline.

"According to Seabrooks, he believed that the ball felt similar to the footballs intercepted by Mike Adams during the Colts game against the Patriots earlier in the season, so he asked one of the team‟s equipment interns to locate a pressure gauge and test the inflation level of the intercepted ball. The intern used a digital pressure gauge similar to the gauge used by the Colts to set their footballs before the game, and reported that the pressure measured approximately 11 psi."

And in the locker room.

"Riveron believed that the combination of the pre-game concerns raised by the Colts and the information received about the intercepted ball made testing the game balls essential. At Riveron‟s request, Daniel retrieved a gauge that was near the air pump in the dressing area of the Locker Room, and they tested the
intercepted ball three times before the balance of the game balls were brought back to the Officials Locker Room.36 All three measurements were below 12.0 psi. "

Note: "We believe that Daniel located and used the pressure gauge supplied by the Patriots. We further believe that this is the gauge that John Jastremski considers his normal gauge."

"The pressure of the Patriots ball that had been intercepted by the Colts was separately tested three times and the measurements—11.45, 11.35 and 11.75 psi, respectively—were written on athletic tape that had been placed on the ball for identification"

Two things that are significant. 1. They used JJ's gauge, and 2. this is the first ball measured which when averaged well within the predicted window even with a few minutes of warming.

It was definitely wet. That ball was on the field for at least 5 football minutes.

 

[Tony2046]

Tony, whereever you are. Thanks for adding to the discourse as per usual.

Edit: there you are. I think it says "at the end of the first half" or "start of halftime"

No problem. Same to you. I've enjoyed the discussion.

I just posted quotes from the Wells report.

 

[Tony2046]

why all of amicus briefs all of a sudden? i didn't see as many prior to the panel hearing. i wonder if olsen got all these parties to file them.

I hope this is part of some massive PR campaign.

 

[Tony2046]

@letekro - searched for other factors that could affect a footballs pressure. Interesting especially the effects of the humidity levels.

(a) Volume change: This assumes that the volume of the football did not change significantly due to the change in pressure. The leather case of the football probably stretches slightly when it get wet, this would increase the volume and result in a further reduction of the pressure. This effect is very difficult to estimate as it depends on the detailed properties of the leather used.

(b) Temperature equilibration with environment: It also assumes that that the temperature of the air in the football has time to equilibrate with the temperature of the environment. A reader of this page told me that he experimentally found this to take about 30 minutes (by sticking the ball in a fridge and monitoring the pressure change in the ball). Immediately after inflation the temperature inside the football can be higher or lower than room temperature, depending on how it was inflated. Wet balls are slightly cooler than dry balls due to evaporative cooling. This is a negligible effect if the air of the environment is very humid (as it was).

(c) Barometric pressure - the weather: It also ignores the effects of the barometric pressure change that night in Foxboro. This only has a very small effect which would have increased the measured ball pressure at half time. I have calculated this additional change to be about +0.05 PSI (see plot created with local barometric pressure data provided by Bob Hayes).

This would add to the pressure of a football albeit minimally.

(d) Humidity: The calculator also assumes that the air in the football is dry. Humid air could lead to a further reduction in the pressure as the ball cools down because condensation of water inside the ball would remove gas from the football. This effect can be bounded by 0.3 PSI (this is what I get if I assume that the air was 100% humid at 75F and all of the water condenses out), but it is negligible if highy compressed and dry air was used for inflating the balls (as opposed to a hand pump which does inflate with moist air).

If they used a hand pump the humidity that day was between 72 - 83% that day.

East Foxboro MA Weather January 18 2015 Archived Hourly Data | Friendly Forecast (<< Link)

 

[Ivan]

Brady disposed of the single item with the greatest bearing on the truth of the NFL's statements and he is going to get a court to order discovery on the NFL? Get real. Never mind the lack of damages, which you circumvent above by creating an alternative universe where Brady is dropped by sponsors.

The whole thing is patently absurd. The Wells Report is a product of Paul Weiss, not the NFL, and, irrespective of that, doesn't contain a single lie that could form the basis of a defamation suit. Goodell's ruling is the opinion of an arbitrator. When an arbitrator issues a ruling the losing party doesn't like, they can sue the arbitrator for defamation? That's not the way it works. By the nature of the job, arbitrators, judges, whatever, interpret the facts in a way and reach conclusions that one party doesn't like, and often sees as extremely unjust. That does not make it actionable. This is all silly but if you want to believe it will happen go right ahead.

For anyone wondering where leterko really stands this is what kicked off the debate. He clearly believes "the truth" can be found on Bradys cellphone, and you only believe that if you believe he's guilty as he is saying "the truth" is in the three missing texts, which one would only believe if you believe they provide proof of guilt, as they prove nothing if there is nothing implicating him on them. Leterko believes there is no defamation suit and the proof of guilt is in the missing texts, and the science proves nothing..I.e.... He believes Brady is guilty. He can pretend otherwise and try to act like he is just being impartial but that's bullsh.t. He's been trolling this thread the entire time.

BTW-leterko also claims Brady has suffered no damages even though the Globe ran an article that showed he dropped 2,000 spots on the rankings of celebrity endorsers. He claims the damage is "imaginary."

 

[Froob]

For anyone wondering where leterko really stands this is what kicked off the debate. He clearly believes "the truth" can be found on Bradys cellphone, and you only believe that if you believe he's guilty as he is saying "the truth" is in the three missing texts, which one would only believe if you believe they provide proof of guilt, as they prove nothing if there is nothing implicating him on them. Leterko believes there is no defamation suit and the proof of guilt is in the missing texts, and the science process nothing..I.e.... He believes Brady is guilty. He can pretend otherwise and try to act like he is just being impartial but that's bullsh.t. He's been trolling this thread the entire time.

If Brady had texted close friends that he did nothing Goodell would find it "not credible."

 

[Ivan]

Utter nonsense that the league got all relevant data from the relevant phone. You are mistaken.

And there is no "science" here. There is a law of science that is relevant to this case but the inputs to that law are unknown in this case.

Once again, this is where leterko has really been coming from. The only way you claim the phones have the real proof is if you believe Brady conspired to deflate balls, otherwise they prove nothing.

 

[Ivan]

Nobody. The Colts' balls were within range of the Exponent experiments.

And the Colts balls were just fine..........

 

[Ivan]

So to sum up leterkos position:

The science proves nothing.

The real proof is in the missing texts.

The NFL didn't defame Brady.

And Brady's reputation suffered no damage.

 

[Tony2046]

So to sum up leterkos position:

The science proves nothing.

The real proof is in the missing texts.

The NFL didn't defame Brady.

And Brady's reputation suffered no damage.

This is a Felger type position. I haven't listened to Felger in quite awhile but I would not doubt that a lot of casual Patriots fans think "something happened but the punishment is overboard" because of listening to the Felgers of the world.

 

[Galeb]

This is a Felger type position. I haven't listened to Felger in quite awhile but I would not doubt that a lot of casual Patriots fans think "something happened but the punishment is overboard" because of listening to the Felgers of the world.

The only "something" that I think may have happened would be Jastremski and McNally ensuring that the balls were near 12.5 so as not to get a repeat of the 16 PSI balls at the Jets. I sincerely hope that Goodell servers significant jail time. I doubt he'll ever feel any shame for what he's done. Hopefully he'll be completely disgraced and penniless when he dies.

 

[Ring 6]

So to sum up leterkos position:

The science proves nothing.

The real proof is in the missing texts.

The NFL didn't defame Brady.

And Brady's reputation suffered no damage.

What missing texts? They had everyone else's phone and records of every text Brady sent from his service provider.
Texts show up in both phones.

 

[Ring 6]

The only "something" that I think may have happened would be Jastremski and McNally ensuring that the balls were near 12.5 so as not to get a repeat of the 16 PSI balls at the Jets. I sincerely hope that Goodell servers significant jail time. I doubt he'll ever feel any shame for what he's done. Hopefully he'll be completely disgraced and penniless when he dies.

If they manipulated the balls after they were checked they are just as guilty if they were aiming for 12.5 as if they were aimed for 9.
However the science gives zero indication that any deflation happened so the "something must have happened" line is pretty weak.

 

[Tunescribe]

I sincerely hope that Goodell serves significant jail time. I doubt he'll ever feel any shame for what he's done. Hopefully he'll be completely disgraced and penniless when he dies.

I'd love to see that made into a movie.

 

[Galeb]

If they manipulated the calls after they were checked they ar just as guilty if they were aiming for 12.5 as if they were aimed for 9.
However the science gives zero indication that this happened so the @something must have happened" line is pretty weak.

I don't know if anything happened, but if "something" did happen, that's what I suspect it would have been. I also suspect it would have happened without Brady's knowledge.

I agree that it is against the rules to tamper with balls. That said, it would counter the "competitive advantage" that Goodell used to justify the extreme punishment and expose a scheme that intended to put Brady at a competitive disadvantage.

 

[Ring 6]

And the Colts balls were just fine..........

We don't that because we don't know what they began at or more importantly when they were measured. And they were dry. If they were measured at the very end of the halftime period (which they clearly we're because they never finished) then the exercise by exponent is useless because it doesn't measure for that.

A better statement us that d wry football measured was within the margin for error that exists due to the limited data available.

Let's not forget the wells team interviewed 7 league employees who were in the room and while the report is 200 pages long and goes into painstaking detail it does not state anywhere what they said about the order of the measurement.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't know if anything happened, but if "something" did happen, that's what I suspect it would have been. I also suspect it would have happened without Brady's knowledge.

I agree that it is against the rules to tamper with balls. That said, it would counter the "competitive advantage" that Goodell used to justify the extreme punishment and expose a scheme that intended to put Brady at a competitive disadvantage.

So you think it's possible that a fat man took 12 footballs into a bathroom to take .1 psi out if thrm and accomplished all of this in 100 seconds and did it for the hell of it because the guy he was supposedly sound it for knew nothing about it?
And you believe this all despite there being any evidence at all that the balks were actually deflated?

 

[Galeb]

So you think it's possible that a fat man took 12 footballs into a bathroom to take .1 psi out if thrm and accomplished all of this in 100 seconds and did it for the hell of it because the guy he was supposedly sound it for knew nothing about it?
And you believe this all despite there being any evidence at all that the balks were actually deflated?

I don't think balls were ever deflated below 12.5. You'll also notice that in both posts you responded to, I said "if". I don't think anything happened, but if something did, that is what I think it would have been. If Brady was complicit, I think he would have admitted to it.

I don't have the link, but in the early stages of deflategate one of the networks actually had a couple of guys each deflate 12 balls from a bag in 90 seconds.

What's with this "he did it for the hell of it"? Brady blasted Jastremski after the Jets game, and I suspect that IF they manipulated the balls, it was to prevent that from happening again.

 

[RobertWeathers]

And the Colts balls were just fine..........

Thats another point that really pisses me off.