Tom Brady, NFLPA Granted 14-Day Extension To File Motion For Rehearing By Second Circuit Court

[Ivan]

Utter nonsense that the league got all relevant data from the relevant phone. You are mistaken.

And there is no "science" here. There is a law of science that is relevant to this case but the inputs to that law are unknown in this case.

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[Ivan]

Almost 100 years of pro football and they didn't know the cold affected PSI.

They never cared about PSI, it was just a premise for a with hunt.

 

[Tony2046]

But he didn't provide all relevant text messages. Why can we not just accept that fact here?

Ok Sure. Can you do me a favor and answer this question, do you think that , in Brady's mind (via Yee), that this was a witch hunt?

 

[letekro]

It's a given that the phone issue is a thorn in Brady's case. My question to you is, did the NFL want to know the truth about the phone and its records or did they think, "Jackpot" we now have the mother of all PR hits with this?

They had the phone logs. IIRC it had about 9 or 10 thousand individual logs. IF they were searching for answers could they not have correlated all similar numbers and do a little research? They did not even try to contact one number.

Secondly, why did Roger mischaracterize Brady's appeal testimony. Why did the NFL release that the NFLPA wanted to keep the appeal transcripts confidential? Why were we privileged to witness months of Ex Football players tossing around deflated footballs while erroneously stating that they had never played with a deflated football? Because that was a part of the PR smear campaign.

Were they searching for the truth? No. They admittedly did not know about the IGL and when they found out it was too late to reverse the "Patriots cheated again" train around.

If Roger said "we got it wrong and didn't know about the IGL" he would have taken a huge hit and given what he had just endured PR wise through the Ray Rice case he could not afford it.

Take a quick read through the appeal transcripts. They were searching for two things. PR bumper sticker quotes and a "cover their ass" storyline.

The Phone was his golden ticket. He was not going to research the phone logs because he didn't want to know. He wanted the PR.

They were probably happy he disposed of it. That doesnt mean it wasnt stupid to do so or that there may have been relevant info on it.

 

[Ivan]

This is obviously woefully insufficient as a study and therefore doesn't really move the needle (pardon the pun).

It is distressing that the Patriots hired lawyers to do the Wells Report in Context but either didn't try or couldn't find an Exponent competitor to do a proper study. I'm sure a proper study could be conducted in such a way to show the Patriots' balls were in conformity with IGL predictions. Another ball dropped by the team in this sordid affair.

First of all you claimed that there were plenty of scientists siding with the Wells Report but then completely ignored the requests for you to link with them. Then when numerous posters link you to science citing weather as the cause you blame the team for not commisioning a lab to do it despite the fact that they had numerous scientists and labs that already ran the tests and came up with results supporting the belief that it was weather that caused the loss of PSI. And I have no doubt that had the Patriots commissioned such a study you would have said to throw that out because they commissioned it.

 

[Tony2046]

They were probably happy he disposed of it. That doesnt mean it wasnt stupid to do so or that there may have been relevant info on it.

Yes and no.

If you searched my phone you would find messages containing the words Nipple, Sieman and Velvet.

What are you thinking of right now?

This?

Or this?

Any lawyer or legal counsel will tell you that it is unwise, no matter how innocent you are, to hand over anything willingly. Especially during a witch hunt.

 

[Galeb]

Yes and no.

If you searched my phone you would find messages containing the words Nipple, Sieman and Velvet.

What are you thinking of right now?

This?

Or this?

View attachment 13072

Great post man. Unfortunately for the board, it got me thinking.

We could make a fun game out of this.

I doubt too many people would be thinking about this:



For the words BBC arsehole and Jeremy.

 

[ReverendMaynard]

How would anyone know if the Wells/Pash report contained any lies? Goodell denied Brady access to any of the investigative notes.

People want to crucify Brady for not sharing some tiny little subset of his communications (texts to non-nfl employees) and yet the entirety of the investigation is being withheld by the NFL. If refusing to share information is proof that there is something damning in that information, who's hiding more damning evidences here?

 

[The Gr8est]

Yes and no.

If you searched my phone you would find messages containing the words Nipple, Sieman and Velvet.

What are you thinking of right now?

This?

Or this?

View attachment 13072

Any lawyer or legal counsel will tell you that it is unwise, no matter how innocent you are, to hand over anything willingly. Especially during a witch hunt.

This post is too awesome for mere words to do it justice.

 

[letekro]

Yes and no.

If you searched my phone you would find messages containing the words Nipple, Sieman and Velvet.

What are you thinking of right now?

This?

Or this?

View attachment 13072

Any lawyer or legal counsel will tell you that it is unwise, no matter how innocent you are, to hand over anything willingly. Especially during a witch hunt.

Haha. Yes, of course. But, why did he turn over the other phones?

 

[letekro]

Great post man. Unfortunately for the board, it got me thinking.

We could make a fun game out of this.

I doubt too many people would be thinking about this:

View attachment 13073

For the words BBC arsehole and Jeremy.

This is awesome.

 

[AQPE]

3. I find it very unlikely that McNally went to the bathroom to take out 0.1 psi. Still possible though, especially because he is a moron.

A bit tangential here but why are you continually making these kinds of remarks about McNally? Is this a personal thing for you with him? It seems so to me, at least it's a reasonable inference given how many times you've posted this kind of invective towards him.

See what I did there? Just hoping to make a point for you to consider going forward with your posts on this topic (if any).

Just an example of why many of us here don't find your arguments persuasive at all. You could have saved yourself a lot of time given the hundreds of words you've posted on this topic if you simply realize that effort is hurt greatly when you don't give more consideration to how your words come across, especially in this case on this forum.

 

[letekro]

Pretty much sums it up.

Yes it does.

1. Brady's own testimony at the Appeal Hearing is that no one ever checked the missing phone or its over 9,900 text messages for relevance. I quoted it above for ease of your reference.

2. The testimony of Brady's own expert at the Appeal Hearing is that there are myriad unknown inputs to the IGL equation such that it is unknowable whether or not the balls were tampered with. I quoted it above for ease of your reference.

Facts. Deal with them. Unlike 99% of this board, I back up my statements with cites to and quotes to the underlying materials, rather than just pontificating out of my arse.

 

[Tony2046]

They were probably happy he disposed of it. That doesnt mean it wasnt stupid to do so or that there may have been relevant info on it.

Let's look at a worse case scenario.

We can assume because of text messages presented in the Wells Report and the appeal transcripts that Brady wanted his footballs between 12.5 and 13.0 initially and at 12.5 after the Jets game.

We can assume that properly inflated footballs during away games had no impact on Brady's performance nor fumble rates. Tom Brady's home and away stats may shed some light on Deflategate (<<Link)

So based on that and many other elements, which I won't rehash, we can assume or know that Brady did not want to have the footballs changed or altered for the purpose of "cheating" or to gain a competitive advantage.

I think you are on board with those assumptions. Correct me if I'm wrong. If you agree shouldn't have the NFL come to the same conclusion?

So we look at the Science. Were there mistakes in the Wells report? Yes. Can science accurately pinpoint to a number or a PSI with so many unknowns and recollections? No. Of course not.

But please understand that Science can still provide an accurate window of possibility with what is known and greater minds than I (much greater actually) can conclude statistically that those parameters prove to be insignificant or IOW that it is likely that no deflation occurred.

But that does not mean that it is impossible just not likely.

So how much air do you believe was "missing" from those footballs? If you stick to the intercepted ball we know that it measured approximately 11.0. The Wells report states 11.32 for a wet football and the intercepted football was definitely wet. So without science or math would you accept 0.32 psi missing? IF so for what purpose would they have released that air?

IF I accepted that number it would lead me to believe that McNally went into the restroom to Check the psi of all the footballs because of what happened during the Jets game. OR the Refs pumped the footballs up to 16 psi , as they apparently did during the Jets game, and McNally brought them back down to 12.5.

Is that cheating?

Shouldn't the NFL have concluded that it was, at worse, a ball attendant trying to ensure the balls were at 12.5 psi? They didn't and wanted blood. They had already released the 2 psi story either out of ignorance or for some other nefarious purpose and needed to hang them out to dry.

So would you hand over your phone under those circumstances? Not one lawyer would advise that. They were not looking for the truth they were looking to hang Brady.

 

[Tony2046]

Haha. Yes, of course. But, why did he turn over the other phones?

Brady only had one phone which was his personal phone.

The others, JJ and McNally, had company phones or Patriot (NFL) issued phones. I am not sure if they had or turned over their personal phones. (I remember reading about this about a year ago so I may be a little sketchy on the details so correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

[letekro]

A bit tangential here but why are you continually making these kinds of remarks about McNally? Is this a personal thing for you with him? It seems so to me, at least it's a reasonable inference given how many times you've posted this kind of invective towards him.

See what I did there? Just hoping to make a point for you to consider going forward with your posts on this topic (if any).

Just an example of why many of us here don't find your arguments persuasive at all. You could have saved yourself a lot of time given the hundreds of words you've posted on this topic if you simply realize that effort is hurt greatly when you don't give more consideration to how your words come across, especially in this case on this forum.

I mean, it was half-serious, but since you ask....

Because he is a 50 year old man whose job responsibilities consist of lugging bags of footballs around and "attending" the officials' locker room. Because his life seemed to revolve around extracting memorabilia from Tom Brady. Because his texts make him seem like one? In the parlance of Ted Wells, it is more probable than not that he is a moron. Of course, he may be a nice man, but that is a bit beside the point for purposes of this discussion.

 

[Galeb]

Because he is a 50 year old man whose job responsibilities consist of lugging bags of footballs around and "attending" the officials' locker room.

It's honest work. Not that it makes a difference, but wasn't it just a part time gig on the side?

 

[Ivan]

Yes it does.

1. Brady's own testimony at the Appeal Hearing is that no one ever checked the missing phone or its over 9,900 text messages for relevance. I quoted it above for ease of your reference.

2. The testimony of Brady's own expert at the Appeal Hearing is that there are myriad unknown inputs to the IGL equation such that it is unknowable whether or not the balls were tampered with. I quoted it above for ease of your reference.

Facts. Deal with them. Unlike 99% of this board, I back up my statements with cites to and quotes to the underlying materials, rather than just pontificating out of my arse.

Not facts, ********. And pontificating out of your arse it's clearly what you are best at, as has been demonstrated repeatedly throughout this thread.

Congratulations on the troll job.

 

[letekro]

Brady only had one phone which was his personal phone.

I don't think this is right. What is your source for this? I could be missing it but I didn't see Brady differentiate between work/personal phones anywhere.

Here is Brady's testimony (sorry for the interlaced numbers):

Q. And you see there is a reference in 5 paragraph 1 to, "Two mobile phone devices used by 6 Mr. Thomas Brady, Jr.," correct? 7

A. Yes. 8

Q. And that refers to the mobile phone devices 9 that you provided for his review, correct? 10

A. Yes. 11

Q. And directing your attention to paragraph 4 12 of the document, it refers to the first phone and 13 says that, "It's dates of active use were from 14 March 6, 2015 through April 8, 2015." 15 Do you see that? 16

A. Yes. 17

Q. And directing your attention to the next 18 paragraph which refers to the second phone review, 19 it says that, "The dates of active use were from 20 March 23, 2014 or May 23, 2014 through November 5, 21 2014," correct? 22

A. Yes. 23

Q. And those were the only two phones that were 24 provided to the forensic expert, correct?

25 A. Yes.

Q. And do you see that there is a gap from 2 November 6, 2014 to March 5, 2015, in the phones 3 provided to and received by and reviewed by the 4 forensic consultant? 5

A. Yes. 6

Q. And did you use a cell phone to make calls 7 and send and receive text messages during this gap 8 period of November 6, 2014, to March 5, 2015? 9

A. Yes.

 

[letekro]

It's honest work. Not that it makes a difference, but wasn't it just a part time gig on the side?

Fair. fair.