Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatsFans.com Article, Jul 9, 2008.
Ben Coates was one of those Patriots whom you canâ€™t praise enough.
Well, he's actually the 13th.
But yeah, it's a good idea. Not the same storied history as the Bears or Packers or Chiefs, but when Brady and the gang get enshrined, there could be quite a ring up there.
But honestly, I think the only current Patriot to see his number retired will be Brady. Hell, some of the numbers that are retired now are a bit questionable. Some have said only Brady, Tippett, and Hannah should have their numbers retired.
With the HOF next door, will this be necessary???
I could not agree more.
Really it's Tippett and Hannah - That's all we got right now.
No. 12 will be there someday for sure, but I hope it's a long time and a lot of rings later.
Nope. Besides, the Ring of Honor is, I believe, historically a Bronco thing, and while other teams have copied their idea, I wouldn't want to be one of them. I also hope that after a couple of years we cease inducting a player into the Patriots HOF automatically every year and keep it for the truly deserving.
That was my first thought. The tone of the article suggests Kraft needs a kick in the pants to start doing things designed to honor his organizations enviable accomplishments over the last several seasons. The implication clearly being that he's oblivious to that while focused on expanding in his development of anscillary branded real estate holdings... Then he tries to soften the critique by acknowledging that Kraft belongs in his own HOF. Newsflash for Bob, he and Bill and possibly Scott will likely all end up in Canton one eventually. Bill of course being the guy he bestows the backhanded slap at for denying Coates a ripe plum...
I bit my tongue the other day rather than pile on after others made the comment I was tempted to. But twice in one week we get spoon fed more uninspired crap from an increasingly unsurprising source. Ian should just hold monthly contests for featured columnist - he'd get a better product for his home page in the process.
Going forward the Patriots will likely only retire numbers of players who make the FOOTBALL HOF. In that case where they finish their career will be a moot point. That makes Adam a lock and Ty Law and Rodney outside possibilities. And if he wins a couple of rings here, Randy since he is a veritable HOF lock. Seymour has a shot if his A game returns, and a couple of others on the present roster may emerge although for the moment they are only in Hall of the Very Good (and crucial to their own franchise) territory.
A Ring of Fame may be a means to un-retire a couple of numbers when it becomes clear that there are now so many deserving of this teams HOF that it precludes retiring their numbers absent their entering the one in Canton. Because when the decision to retire those numbers was made no one in their wildest dreams conceived of a dynasty being born here. But that can be accomplished by simply modifying the HOF criteria and re-acknowledging and further honoring those whose numbers will no longer be retired when the new facility opens. Guys who wear that number going forward can have it carry a commemorative patch indicating it formerly belonged to a player since inducted into the teams HOF.
And knowing this organization I'm sure they are already pondering all those angles. I say that with relative certainty because I GET HOW SMART THEY ARE. It continually amazes me that some hereabouts still don't appear to get that.
No need. The hall is enough. Why would anyone feel the need to do more?
Oh yeah, let's induct Lonie Paxton into the Hall.
I'd like to see something similar to what the Red Sox do: 1) needs to be in the leagues HoF; 2) needs to have retired with the organization (and that's just a minor loophole, if the player really wants to be in the Hall he just signs a 1-day contract with the team); 3) a minimum playing time (the Sox have it set to 10 seasons, though with football it'd have to be a bit shorter to accomidate the shorter average playing career...I'm thinking 6 with the team).
As a couple of others have mentioned, my first reaction before even reading the article was 'why do we need a Ring of Fame' with the construction of the Patriots Hall of Fame next door? I like MoLewisrocks' idea that the only numbers to be retired going forward would be players in the NFL Hall of Fame. I also agree with pats1 that the number enshrined is starting to grow fairly large. At this rate a Ring with all those numbers is going to soon be so large that it could almost become meaningless. I'm not sure what the current criteria is for the Pats HoF, perhaps limit it to one player every four or five years? For all those players that were very good but not quite HoF worthy, perhaps there will be room at the new HoF for exhibits on past teams where those players can be highlighted as a tribute to them.
In terms of retired #'s you are right, maybe you missed Bruce Armstrong but the Ring of Fame could be a big one.
Current Ring of fame should be:
Bruce Armstrong, Gino Cappelletti, Stanley Morgan, Michael Haynes, Steve Nelson, Jim Lee Hunt, Bob Dee, Steve Grogan, Sam Cunningham, Jim Nance, Nick Buoniconti, "Babe" Parilli and Raymond Clayborn.
Also these guys should be there once retired:
Adam Vinatieri, Ty Law, Troy Brown, Willie McGinest, Tedy Bruschi and Mike Vrabel.
Brady is a given so did not list above.
i was thinking the same thing. Patriots Place will be the same as the ring of fame
"The time has come for Kraft to do something more overt to honor the team's growing legacy."
Yeah, because building a multi-million dollar, first-of-it's kind, team HoF is just not "overt" enough to show he's honoring the team's history. The timing of this article is laughable and the content moronic.
I just saw it mentioned but if this ever comes to fruition one of the first guys I want to see go up is Troy Brown, consumate professional, really good career and a great guy. He does not have the resume of a HOF ring of honor guy but there should be something for people who play the game the right way, go where the team needs them to be and played a huge role in the midst of a dynasty.
The one benefit I see to a 'ring of fame' type thing is the ability to promote your guys for NFL HoF. If their name or number gets shown on national TV when Patriots play it builds up their national rep for getting HoF votes.
Just look at our guys from 80s who get no love. Tippett for god's sake never got seriously considered in the consideration period after retirement. For a guy you could statistically rank up with LT that is absurd.
TV viewers wont ever see the guys in the Pats HoF so some kind of jerseys painted around the side walls or ring of names/numbers might be nice. I lean toward jersey's then you could reflect the history of the actual jersey's they played in.
Bod Dee and Jim Lee Hunt? Why?
What a great jumping off point for debate! However, I'd add John Hannah, Andre Tippett, and maybe Ron Burton. I'd get rid of Clayborn and Buoniconti.
For the currents, I'd just do Brady, Brown, and Bruschi.
I have no problem with honoring a very broad number of players for the team hall of fame or a ring of honor type thing. I feel from a team stand point it is a good thing to honor as many people as you can (that are worthy and these standards should be considerably lower). The NFL Hall should be reserved for the greatest of the greats but a team hall should be just the greats.
You'd pick Ron Burton over Clayborn?! What, do you need an insurance policy?
Did he actually have Cunningham but not Hannah?
Why does this have to be so hard? There must be some voters who know Patriots history. Granted, the original HOF appointers wouldn't qualify in that regard.
Wouldn't it be better to promote them from the Patriots HOF where they would deservedly be if they were REMOTELY worthy of the Pro Football HOF?
Ring of Honor is a step down from a HOF. Thing is, neither should result in a retired number UNLESS that player is also inducted into the Canton HOF. I think it's fine if the team wants to have a ring of honor within their HOF for almost all significant retirees because they won't all make even a Patriots HOF. But it's not a glaring injustice if we don't have one.
Guys like Tip would not have benefitted from a Ring of Honor. He was snubbed for two reasons - his owner was a dolt (Sullivan) and McDonough didn't like him. HOF is a perception vote by a collection of mediots who talk each other into things like they trade favors in Congress. Only the most elite go in on one or two ballots. The rest have to lobby for inclusion or have influential friends in the right places who keep banging the drum. Say what you will but Borges was determined to right the wrong on Tip, and over the course of several seasons as Will's successor he did.
HOFs, Ring of Fames, Retired Numbers and etc. just further lowers the standards of what "Exceptional or Great" really means. NFL HOF in Canton Ohio is suffice. What next a New England Patriot's Cheerleader HOF?
Excellent point Mo. The way the NFL HoF process works, as I understand it, is that all of the voters (one per team, plus a few at-large voters) meet and one by one make a case for a player for the team they cover/represent. It is mostly beat writers that may have paid little to no attention to the other 31 teams other than watching SportsCenter, so if whomever is representing you does not make a good case because he didn't like you, or is new to the committee, or doesn't know the protocol, or is not a very good public speaker, then that player is screwed! No surprise that a player that came up for vote after finishing his career in the Kiam - Orthwein years didn't get much notice, considering this voting process.
Hopefully Ian will give us a pain in the ass resident troll Hall of Shame/Ring of Dishonor first. I'll champion your inclusion...
Tedy Bruschi and Troy Brown may be yet another two - if I had to pick one of those two it would be #54.
I did assume that the comment of Tippett and Hannah above my post would lead all to conclude that those guys would be included.
Ironman of the AFL, never missed a game during his career and started 112 consecutive games. 4 AFL All-Star teams (1961, 1963-65) and a member of the Patriots All-1960's team.
Jim Lee Hunt:
Played both OT and DT from 1960 to 1970. 4x AFL All-Star, and was one of only 20 players to play the entire 10 yrs of the AFL. Also a member of the Patriots All-1960's team.
Separate names with a comma.