Thoughts on #85 and the WR's

[captain stone]

I'd keep Price over Morris 6 days a week and twice on Sunday.

Absolutely.

Sammy has no value to us whatsoever; Bill would've been better-served signing a true
ass-kicking FB like LeRon McClain or a younger & better combo back like Jason Snelling.

Taylor Price could be a very valuable piece of our offense as a fresh-legged complement
on the outside for Ocho & Branch. I really hope that he & Edelman are the beginnings
of a re-tooled WR group for 2012 & beyond.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

...you want to understand leadership in a sports and team environment...from boston.com's article

Ochocinco is confident he will catch on quickly

on the interception in Detriot..."Brady took the blame, saying he checked down, expecting a blitz that didn’t come"

This is just small example of TFB's leadership.

a) it may have been his fault, so he took the blame
b) it may not have been his fault but he took the blame, knowing that the alternative would set off a **** storm on 85.

Tell me receivers are not wanting to go that extra mile when in some situations, it actually may be their fault, but TFB takes the blame. Wideouts are going to respond to that leadership. They are going to want to play for that type of qb.

This is the leadership that I would like to see develop on the other side of the ball. Not people out there pointing fingers, disputing miscommunication during the game for all to see.

We develop these leaders on both sides of the ball, and we are going back to the promise land.

Talent is important, of course. Leadership is equally as important and can not be overstated.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Even with a strategic weakness at deep WR this can be one of the most productive offenses in the league.

That's enough to beat most teams on most days and the Patriots offense is good at covering up inadequacies especially playing against lesser teams.

We have seen, however, that teams that have the strategy and skills to exploit the Patriots weakness at WR, can do so. Although I hoped Ochocinco would be more productive, I'm not surprised he's not panning out thus far.

I am pleasantly surprised by Slater and Price and wouldn't rule out one of them stepping up in the regular season - nor would I be surprised if Hernandez were sent on 20 yard deep routes - he can handle it and all of that would stretch the defense nicely.

So I've come to terms that Plan A at WR might not be working but I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised by what some younger WRs might contribute on some deep routes and we'll have a healthy Plan B develop during the season.

 

[Rob0729]

The offense was exposed as impotent when it really counts, the playoff's.

I dare say they won SB's on Defense more than offense.

Was the offense actually exposed or was it just a case of a great defensive gameplan that the Pats just didn't have a counter for. For a offense to be exposed as impotent, that means that many or most teams will be able to recreate the Jets' success. We do not know that at all yet. We don't even know if the Jets could repeat that performance either.

Look at it this way, the Pats exposed the Jets' offense and defense in November. How did that work out for them in January?

This exposing the offense or the Jets giving the blueprint to beat Brady and the offense is way overrated. One game does not mean much of anything in terms of that. This is the same talk we heard after the Giants beat the Pats in the Super Bowl and two years later, the Pats had the best passing offense in the league and the first ever unaimous MVP in Brady.

 

[Patspsycho]

He'll run good routes (when he's running the right route!).

I've said it before and I'll repeat it again here. The problem is not that he's running the right or wrong routes, or that he doesn't know the playbook (if that were the case, you'd see the ball sail over his head).

The issue here is that in NE, a lot of the time, routes get modified based on coverage recognition. That is something that the Bengals never bothered to deal with teaching their receivers. As Ocho himself has mentioned, football here is played at the highest level. In that regard he is learning something completely new.

From what I have personally seen in training camp, Ocho has more than proven that his mind and heart is in the right place. Every time I saw him, he was always talking to someone, asking questions and discussing something. He was also always one of the last ones to leave the practice field.

With all that hard work, good things cannot fail to follow.

 

[Garbanza]

Was the offense actually exposed or was it just a case of a great defensive gameplan that the Pats just didn't have a counter for. For a offense to be exposed as impotent, that means that many or most teams will be able to recreate the Jets' success. We do not know that at all yet. We don't even know if the Jets could repeat that performance either.

Look at it this way, the Pats exposed the Jets' offense and defense in November. How did that work out for them in January?

This exposing the offense or the Jets giving the blueprint to beat Brady and the offense is way overrated. One game does not mean much of anything in terms of that. This is the same talk we heard after the Giants beat the Pats in the Super Bowl and two years later, the Pats had the best passing offense in the league and the first ever unaimous MVP in Brady.

They exposed the coaching staff then? LOL!

I think it may be because in the playoff's you play the best of the best, allegedly. Talent V Talent. Pats have lost the battle, one game and out, two years in a row.

The addage is that defense wins Championships. More often than not, that is indeed the case. I'm looking for big defensive improvement. As far as I am concerned, the offense hasn't changed from last year apart from individual progress some players hopefully have made.

 

[Deus Irae]

They exposed the coaching staff then? LOL!

I think it may be because in the playoff's you play the best of the best, allegedly. Talent V Talent. Pats have lost the battle, one game and out, two years in a row.

The addage is that defense wins Championships. More often than not, that is indeed the case. I'm looking for big defensive improvement. As far as I am concerned, the offense hasn't changed from last year apart from individual progress some players hopefully have made.

Brady threw an unforced pick on a screen to end a drive where the offense was destroying the Jets fdefense and that Jets defense was back on its heels. Crumpler dropped an easy TD pass, again ending a drive where the offense was destroying the Jets defense.

The offense wasn't exposed as impotent. Players were exposed as human.

 

[SanAngeloState]

I've said it before and I'll repeat it again here. The problem is not that he's running the right or wrong routes, or that he doesn't know the playbook (if that were the case, you'd see the ball sail over his head).

The issue here is that in NE, a lot of the time, routes get modified based on coverage recognition. That is something that the Bengals never bothered to deal with teaching their receivers. As Ocho himself has mentioned, football here is played at the highest level. In that regard he is learning something completely new.

From what I have personally seen in training camp, Ocho has more than proven that his mind and heart is in the right place. Every time I saw him, he was always talking to someone, asking questions and discussing something. He was also always one of the last ones to leave the practice field.

With all that hard work, good things cannot fail to follow.

Stinko is an OK guy and may even be a hard worker, HOWEVER that doesn't change the fact that many SIMPLY ARE NOT SMART ENOUGH to learn a complicated system like the pats have. Even veteran WRs. Which is sad but true and why STINKO will likely STINK this year. And next year he will be even older and likely will STINK just as much. I warned them not to trade for this guy....

 

[Rob0729]

I'd keep Price over Morris 6 days a week and twice on Sunday.

The thing is you can cut Morris and pick him up at any time. He is unlikely to go anywhere else. Price gets cut and he is on another roster before he gets halfway through waivers.

Price could be a breakout player. No way he gets cut.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Stinko is an OK guy and may even be a hard worker, HOWEVER that doesn't change the fact that many SIMPLY ARE NOT SMART ENOUGH to learn a complicated system like the pats have. Even veteran WRs. Which is sad but true and why STINKO will likely STINK this year. And next year he will be even older and likely will STINK just as much. I warned them not to trade for this guy....

He could also say the same about you as a patsfan. But inherently good hearted soul that he is he probably wouldn't...

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Someone explain to me how Welker and Moss caught on as a WR here in 2007 very quickly in this 'complicated offense' and were on other teams in previous years.

Jabar Gaffney was pretty good right out of the gate too.

With that being said,Why is Chad getting a mulligan for not showing much so far in the preseason?

Was Welker,Moss and Gaffney struggling in 2007 preseason as well? or is Chad just a guy who is not as good as he was in prior years to be able to catch on in NE?

 

[Rob0729]

Someone explain to me how Welker and Moss caught on as a WR here in 2007 very quickly in this 'complicated offense' and were on other teams in previous years.

Jabar Gaffney was pretty good right out of the gate too.

With that being said,Why is Chad getting a mulligan for not showing much so far in the preseason?

Was Welker,Moss and Gaffney struggling in 2007 preseason as well? or is Chad just a guy who is not as good as he was in prior years to be able to catch on in NE?

Welker and Moss came to the team in April of 2007. They had the entire offseason, passing camps, minicamps, OTAs, and private workout sessions with Brady and the coaching staff prior to training camp. If both were signed the day before training camp started, neither would have been nearly as good off the bat.

Jabar Gaffney sucked his first year here getting 149 yards and 1 TD in 10 games in the 2006 season. He had an 100 yard game in the playoffs of the 2006 season, but it took three months for him to be productive. What your problem is that you think Gaffney joined the team in 2007, but he was signed in September of 2006.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Welker and Moss came to the team in April of 2007. They had the entire offseason, passing camps, minicamps, OTAs, and private workout sessions with Brady and the coaching staff prior to training camp. If both were signed the day before training camp started, neither would have been nearly as good off the bat.

Jabar Gaffney sucked his first year here getting 149 yards and 1 TD in 10 games in the 2006 season. He had an 100 yard game in the playoffs of the 2006 season, but it took three months for him to be productive. What your problem is that you think Gaffney joined the team in 2007, but he was signed in September of 2006.

I stand corrected on Gaffney,it just seemed like that whole WR corps was signed in 2007

 

[Deus Irae]

Someone explain to me how Welker and Moss caught on as a WR here in 2007 very quickly in this 'complicated offense' and were on other teams in previous years.

Jabar Gaffney was pretty good right out of the gate too.

With that being said,Why is Chad getting a mulligan for not showing much so far in the preseason?

Was Welker,Moss and Gaffney struggling in 2007 preseason as well? or is Chad just a guy who is not as good as he was in prior years to be able to catch on in NE?

Your memory is incorrect, and none of the trio you mentioned caught on without months of learning. That's how.

 

[SanAngeloState]

He could also say the same about you as a patsfan. But inherently good hearted soul that he is he probably wouldn't...

I'm not a good pats fan b/c i don't understand their system? Yeah, that makes sense.

Anyway, I'm not under contract to them and don't affect whether they win or lose games. So yeah, other than that that makes a lot of sense....

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

I think Chad will get up to speed. Right now, I think he is just so used to playing in a certain mindset that he can't have the same mindset in this system, and in that is slowing his learning of the system up quiet a bit but I garantee you once he learn's it, that he will once again be a very dangerous weapon and possible piece to the superbowl puzzle.

 

[Sciz]

Twitter / Chad Ochocinco: Patience for crying out lo ...

Patience for crying out loud it's been 3 weeks geesh RT @nfl: If chemistry isn't what Tom Brady and @Ochocinco need, what is the right word?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Originally Posted by PATRIOTSFANINPA
Someone explain to me how Welker and Moss caught on as a WR here in 2007 very quickly in this 'complicated offense' and were on other teams in previous years.

Jabar Gaffney was pretty good right out of the gate too.

With that being said,Why is Chad getting a mulligan for not showing much so far in the preseason?

Was Welker,Moss and Gaffney struggling in 2007 preseason as well? or is Chad just a guy who is not as good as he was in prior years to be able to catch on in NE?

Your memory is incorrect, and none of the trio you mentioned caught on without months of learning. That's how.

Let me also add it depends on what system your were in previous to coming here, in Ocho's case he was in a system about as different as you can get for his whole career, he has to take what was automatic, throw it out and learn something new, it takes time no matter who you are.
I dont get why so many people are ready to call him a washed up bust after a month. Is the lockout that much of a distant memory already?

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

oh noes..it's been 3 weeks..ocho is a wash!!!


Some people on here...wow

 

[Ron Sellers]

Someone explain to me how Welker and Moss caught on as a WR here in 2007 very quickly in this 'complicated offense' and were on other teams in previous years.

Jabar Gaffney was pretty good right out of the gate too.

With that being said,Why is Chad getting a mulligan for not showing much so far in the preseason?

Was Welker,Moss and Gaffney struggling in 2007 preseason as well? or is Chad just a guy who is not as good as he was in prior years to be able to catch on in NE?

Maybe it has something to do with Welker becoming a Patriot on March 6, Moss on April 30, and both of them having a complete off-season of interaction with their quarterback, position coach, offensive coordinator, head coach, and teammates?

In my opinion you're vastly overlooking the effect of the lockout on players that move to a new team.