Thoughts on #85 and the WR's

[NEPettyOfficer72]

It definitely takes a little while to learn the system. It took the guys in 07 a few months and look how they turned out. Shouldn't and won't be any different for Chad.

 

[NEPats1]

From earlier this week:

Q: Hi Mike, what's going on with Ochocinco? We all know he's a good player, but he's had some chances to make some plays now and hasn't really come up with much. Is it a case of a player not fitting in with a team/system, or is it still too early to think like that? -- Mark (UK)

A: Mark, I spoke with a scout who thinks the Patriots have some significant concerns at receiver. The scout doesn't see separation from Ochocinco, views Branch as an easy cover, and Welker as the toughest matchup and one target who will draw the most attention. I think it's a little early to think along those lines, but I do think it's fair to have some mild concerns about Ochocinco's early turbulence in entering the system. It just doesn't look natural right now, but I still think it can get there. It has to get there, because I don't see the Patriots cutting him after giving him a $4.5 million signing bonus. The topic came up when I asked a scout if he saw any resemblance between the 2011 Patriots offense and the old Colts offenses of Peyton Manning's early years. The response: "Not really, because the Colts had elite receivers. The Patriots do not."

New England Patriots Mailbag: More questions following loss to Detroit Lions - ESPN Boston

Ok here's my question to you guys: Is the scout that Reiss refers to working for the Pats? If not, then if he works for another team, then maybe he's not being objective, especially if he works for another AFC team, right?

or Is this just wishful thinking?

 

[Jack Handy]

On this board I have not seen anyone questioning if Branch should be cut. Think that he has had only one catch this preseason Is he that much better then 85?

 

[Raymond]

On this board I have not seen anyone questioning if Branch should be cut. Think that he has had only one catch this preseason Is he that much better then 85?

I think we should wait for a game or two to make that call.

 

[Metaphors]

On this board I have not seen anyone questioning if Branch should be cut. Think that he has had only one catch this preseason Is he that much better then 85?

I think Branch was at risk even before Ocho was acquired. Now I see Branch and Ocho as redundant...the only difference being Ocho is bigger/stronger/faster and Branch has a history with Brady.

The thing to consider is the ability to attack all areas of the field. If you have 5 receivers and they are all roaming within 10 yards of the LOS, a good defense will take advantage of that.

This is why I think Tate sticks. Even though Price has speed, he also has traditionally worked short to intermediate zones. If the Pats don't have a credible threat to attack the deep zones outside the numbers, expect to see a single high safety, 2 press corners, 8 players in the box and blitzers coming from a variety of angles.

As for the potential of Branch being cut, most thought that Sanders and Crumpler would never be cut due to their intangibles. Just goes to show you that this locker room is more stable now and roster spots require more than babysitting and knowing where everyone is supposed to be. It the Pats evaluate Branch (or Tate/Price/Edelperson for that matter) as an easy cover for the DBs they will face this year, he is gone by 4pm tomorrow.

 

[reflexblue]

Maybe Branch wasn't involved because they Know wha they have in him unlike Ocho. Ocho needs the reps more than the Twig does.

 

[Run DMC]

Ocho couldn't get seperation from my grandma at this point of his career. Call me totally underwhelmed by our receiving corps. With the exception of Welker, who is a slot not a #1, we have bupkis. Thank Gawd for the TE's.
AHern will be our # 1 receiver, barring injuries.

 

[D-Money]

If this team doesnt get production from the outside, i dont know how they go deep into the playoffs.Surprise they go after more wrs except ocho chinco.

 

[bagwell368]

Ocho couldn't get seperation from my grandma at this point of his career. Call me totally underwhelmed by our receiving corps. With the exception of Welker, who is a slot not a #1, we have bupkis. Thank Gawd for the TE's.
AHern will be our # 1 receiver, barring injuries.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't WR a subset of receivers? The thread is about them, but when you make a global statement you sort of suck the TE and RB's into the argument. I'm expecting 65+ out of AH, 45+ out of Gronk, and 80+ out of Welker. I expect we can get another 150 out of the rest of our receivers, we don't even need anyone else to go over 40.

As most Pats fans like to brag, Brady did a lot with a scrappy group with modest talents (remember any significant deep rec's before Moss?), then a lot more with an elite group. I assume this year will fit somewhere between those two groups. Price & Edelman should get a lot more action then last year. Balance will be a key concept.

 

[bagwell368]

If this team doesnt get production from the outside, i dont know how they go deep into the playoffs.Surprise they go after more wrs except ocho chinco.

How about '01, '03, and '04?

'04 Patten 44 rec for 18.2 ypc
'03 Givens 34 rec for 15.0 ypc
'01 Coleman 2 rec for 25.0 ypc; glenn 14 for 14.6; Patten 51 for 14.7 ypc

that's pretty much it for "deep"threats...

i'm glad I know now how we won those SB's, thanks !

 

[Garbanza]

From earlier this week:






Ok here's my question to you guys: Is the scout that Reiss refers to working for the Pats? If not, then if he works for another team, then maybe he's not being objective, especially if he works for another AFC team, right?

or Is this just wishful thinking?

The scout is 100% correct.

BTW, The Pats' best receivers are their tight ends.

 

[Garbanza]

How about '01, '03, and '04?

'04 Patten 44 rec for 18.2 ypc
'03 Givens 34 rec for 15.0 ypc
'01 Coleman 2 rec for 25.0 ypc; glenn 14 for 14.6; Patten 51 for 14.7 ypc

that's pretty much it for "deep"threats...

i'm glad I know now how we won those SB's, thanks !

It's 2011 and that recipe does not work anymore. 2001, 2003, 2004 say sorry.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

It's 2011 and that recipe does not work anymore. 2001, 2003, 2004 say sorry.

It worked for the 2010 season. Just b/c the Jets decided to overload the middle with zones, doesn't mean BB and Tom Brady won't be ready for that again.

 

[Sciz]

It worked for the 2010 season. Just b/c the Jets decided to overload the middle with zones, doesn't mean BB and Tom Brady won't be ready for that again.

They already are ready. They ruined the "single the outside, load the middle" defense when they got Ochocinco, a receiver who Cromartie can't cover 1-on-1. Ochocinco, unlike Tate, has the quick feet to run those intermediate routes that Cromartie can't defend well.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

They already are ready. They ruined the "single the outside, load the middle" defense, when they got Ochocinco, a receiver who Cromartie can't cover 1-on-1. Ochocinco, unlike Tate, has the quick feet to run those intermediate routes that Cromartie can't defend well.

Yep. It's a given that who ever Revis covers will be locked down..unless it's Wes. Motion him to the backfield (if he is indeed being covered one on one by Revis) and set him free by running pick plays with the O line.
As for OctoDad, his forte is covering tall speedy WR's. Lucky for us, we don't have that problem. He can't keep up with quick WR's.

 

[MoneyFX]

Maybe we should ask the Steelers how they scout WRs?

Sanders,Brown,Wallace,Hines - Big Rapist throws a 10 yard pass and their WRs run away for a 80 yard TD.

The Steelers have better WRs than the Pats in my opinion. Brown is playing lights out in the preseason and Sanders will improve too. Unless Ocho and Deion show up against the dolphins two mondays from now, Brady will mostly be leaning on Welker, Woodhead and the two TEs, which isn't a good thing.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The Steelers have better WRs than the Pats in my opinion. Brown is playing lights out in the preseason and Sanders will improve too. Unless Ocho and Deion show up against the dolphins two mondays from now, Brady will mostly be leaning on Welker, Woodhead and the two TEs, which isn't a good thing.

Agreed. Their WRs are pretty good.

If Holmes had kept his nose clean with him and Wallace they would have the best WR tandem in the NFL.

 

[Sciz]

The Steelers have better WRs than the Pats in my opinion. Brown is playing lights out in the preseason and Sanders will improve too. Unless Ocho and Deion show up against the dolphins two mondays from now, Brady will mostly be leaning on Welker, Woodhead and the two TEs, which isn't a good thing.

Since when is leaning on the TEs a bad thing? They're two of the top-15 receiving TEs in the NFL.