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The win-win-win situation for NE, Tom, and Matt

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatSunday, Dec 22, 2008.

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  1. PatSunday

    PatSunday On the Game Day Roster

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    What is a win-win situation for Brady? Cassell? The team? There is a solution that helps everybody out, making everybody feel fair and equitable, and improving prospects for all three. The mainstream media has not discussed this option, choosing all or nothing scenarios.

    Question one. Is Matt Cassell's best scenario to leave the Pats, and/or would he be better off doing so?

    Question two: same, but for Brady.

    Question three: What about New England?

    The answers are actually interesting.

    Answer one. The fact of the matter is that Moss is a big part of the game and Brady has been part of the team even while rehabbing. Brady's influence has been huge towards keeping Cassell and Moss sane this year. (Moss knows he will be playing with Brady next year.) Now for Cassell to play without Moss, Brady, and Belichick in a crappy town would be a huge downer. Also, he would hurt his ability to get a Super Bowl ring. How much could we get for him right now? Can we afford to keep him, though?

    Answer two. Brady is coming off an injury. Even if he is 100% "healthy", he will not be in 100% shape to avoid hurting himself. That is the nature of injuries--the player temporarily loses some muscle here, some ability to do certain weight lifting and strength exercises, and the same moves in the game that would be fine for him could aggravate his injury. How much could we get for Brady right now?

    And question three. Would NE be better off getting some defensive players? Could we do improve our defense using our regular picks, without special efforts?

    Here is the ultimate answer. The fact is, we could get MORE by letting Brady play than we would right now, as no one, not even Brady, knows how good he will be. This might also be true in August.

    And here's the kicker, the same applies for Matt. We could get MORE for him by giving him another year of NFL experience. It would also give him more value, and be able to get a serious contract with a team. It would also give him a good chance for a Super Bowl ring, and to play with possibly two HOF receivers. He could be the best QB for a team the following year, without any baggage, either.

    And from New England's perspective, would getting a defender or two from a trade be worth it? The fact is, it likely won't be. As teams will assume we HAVE to get rid of one of our QB's, they will not give us great options to deal with them. And it would be better from the Pats perspective to get some defenders who want to play for a Super Bowl contender for a lower amount--something that we've been doing just fine with. If we focus our own draft picks towards the defense...

    We would be OKAY because of the time value of money. Signing Cassell for one year for about 8 million right now, and signing a contract extension with Brady for another 5 years right now (but that included playing for 5 million or less next year--Moss played for us for even less, so I'm sure Brady woudn't mind.)

    This would be the best case scenario for each of the parts individually, and at the same time benefit the sum of the parts as a whole.

    Brady could continue his rehab at his own pace, without being forced to play early. He would be able to resume workouts at full strength. Cassell would be guaranteed to play all the games in September, and the first half of each game following that. Brady would play in the second half. Cassell would get his second year and increase his value, Brady would increase his value as well by showing progress at regaining his stature. THEN New England will have some serious offers for their talent. The kind of offers we would get would exceed what we would get this year. And, we'd have as good a chance to win the Super Bowl as last year! And both players could get their Super Bowl ring!

    As you can see, Cassell would get better offers than he would this year, we would get better picks in exchange, and Brady would not be rushed into playing, and would have some extra time to lift weights and anything else, and he would be more valuable as well than anything he would be worth right now, and Moss will be happy, and all the other players as well.

    What do you think? This is the perfect answer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2008
  2. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle brady plz PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Shouldn't this just be a reply in the official 'DO WE TRADE BRADY' thread?
     
  3. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


    I know.
     
  4. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

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    Or we just play Brady, tag and trade Cassel, and go 19-0 next year.
     
  5. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    No because this post doesn't discuss trading Brady read it before making a comment that a thread should be moved.
     
  6. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Problem with it, is we are tieing up a lot of money at the QB position and I am not sure if Matt nor Tom would be thrilled with a part time job.
     
  7. Disco Volante

    Disco Volante Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #12 Jersey

    What?!?!?!

    Also, Cassel - one l.
     
  8. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    In what universe does 1 yr/$8M make sense for Cassel? :confused:
     
  9. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    Cassel doesn't need to sign for 1 year and 8M. He's going to be a free agent unless the Pats tag him, in which case the tender value will be about 14M. I don't think Cassel will sign the tender. He's not dumb, he knows if he gets traded he could get a multimillion dollar deal with a fat signing bonus AND be the starter on his own team. Unfortunately he won't be starting in NE in 2009 as long as Tom Terrific is healthy.
     
  10. PatSunday

    PatSunday On the Game Day Roster

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    My point is that Cassel, even Brady, would be better off staying with the team and winning a Super Bowl Ring. Cassel's trade value would be through the roof with 2 years of experience. On the other hand, trading Cassel right now.

    And I agree, this is not a trade brady thread, but a keep both QB's thread so that NE can get more picks and other teams take Cassel more seriously. (This year, the other teams know we can't keep both, and both of our players are not anywhere near where they could be, for two different reasons, so it's a risky move for a lot of teams to offer the Patriots a lot of value right now, and a stupid time for us to consider giving up Cassel.) Does anyone else agree that we should do everything we can to sign Cassel to a one year deal right now, increasing his value further (he has nowhere to go but up.) You're supposed to sell stock high, not low. Also, something I didn't mention, but by signing him to a one year contract, we would still have the option to trade Cassel in August if Brady is indeed ahead of schedule, and at the same time, teams would feel Cassel is not desperate and therefore may offer lots of money to Cassel and picks to NE come August. It's in Cassel's and Pat's best interest to get Cassel some more experience, and show that NE is not desperate to get rid of him.

    (And if it buys Brady another full month of strength training, how awesome would that be?) It's a WIN-WIN situation. Anyone else think that BB is doing everything he can to get Cassel to agree to sign to a one year contract for 5-8 million, at which Brady would restructure to reduce how much money he gets paid next year, for the benefit of everyone including the team?

    Cassel will be worth twice whatever we pay him in one year, to the team in draft picks, as well as to himself financially. TWICE.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2008
  11. alamo

    alamo praedica numerum! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Where do you get the idea that keeping Cassel gets us more picks? That's not true.

    The win-win-win idea, while a good thing to search for, doesn't work unless everyone involved sees it that way, and I wouldn't be surprised if two of the three (maybe all three) see this scenario as a loss.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2008
  12. PatSunday

    PatSunday On the Game Day Roster

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    Why do you think so? I posted my reasons, please post yours. I already explained that teams know that we would be desperate to get rid of a QB, and so would not offer us the best deal possible. As well, both of our QB's are nowhere near where they will be after one year (one is injured, the other is just starting his career.) We could win the Super Bowl next year with additions to our defense via the draft as we did with Mayo. Cassel, who would alternate with Brady, would help us out by getting us some INSANE DRAFT PICKS and possibly one of the highest salaries in the NFL for himself, easily making up for the $3-5 million he'd be giving up to stay with us next year for a $1 million dollar contract. And yes, not giving Cassel to any other team would also help us win the Super Bowl next year.

    And Tom wouldn't mind extending his contract while giving up a 3-6 million for his next year (he didn't do much this year anyway, and Moss played for like $1 or $3 million a year). In return, he would be sure he's not just recovering from injury, but seriously rebuilding his body, which is another thing in itself. (Recovering from surgery is one thing, but time to rebuild one's body and accuracy is another.)

    And Cassel would be worth twice as much with picks (from showing further growth, or at least consistency next year) to us, and to himself financially. And, the most likely team to get a Super Bowl ring.

    To sum up: Cassel playing for us for one year for $3-5 million dollar less = $5 million a YEAR more for him after next year, and way better picks for the Patriots.

    Brady restructuring his contract to keep Cassel the next year by playing for $5 million gives him as much time as he needs, which benefits Brady in PROLONGING his career because the extra month or two of him working out and practicing would be way more valuable for any professional player than we realize. (Not only do we want him to have a great recovery from surgery, but we want him to be in game shape, and not to pull a muscle or screw something up in the first game of the season.) He would also show his value, when he comes out, as being very high.

    And of course the Patriots would benefit by proving Cassel is consistently good, year after year.

    The only thing I've just thought of, is that this would mean that they wouldn't break TD or yardage records individually, but I don't think that would hurt them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2008
  13. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Well, with just over a week left in 2008, this thread can, and will, be in consideration for worst thread of the year. So, congratulations!
     
  14. Sivy

    Sivy In the Starting Line-Up

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    2009 Patriots depth chart

    starting qb

    Tom Brady.


    Week 1 injury report

    Probably

    Tom Brady-shoulder.
     
  15. PatSunday

    PatSunday On the Game Day Roster

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    Why do you say that? The Patriots best option is to keep both Cassel and Brady, at a fair price. I didn't say they would play at the same exact time (two quarterbacks at once.) I said that Patriots would guarantee playing time to Cassel and help him realize that he would be a better player and prospect if he waits one year. Considering that Brady and Moss have been good at restructuring their contracts, it will be interesting if Cassel will agree to play one extra year for a hometown discount.
     
  16. BelizePats

    BelizePats Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Your premise is deeply flawed.

    1) There is no guarantee that we would win the Superbowl next year. How can you even make this claim? This is what people said of both the Pats and Cowboys for this year.
    2) You are assuming that Cassel wants to come back to NE. As long as Tom Brady is in a Pats uniform, Matt will be a back up. After his play this year, Matt wants to lead is own team and create his own identity. He will not be playing for the Pats in 2009 as a back up.
    3) Why would he sign for 8 million when he either gets tagged for 14 million or walks as a free agent, in which case he will get his big deal this year. NOT NEXT YEAR!
    4) No professional team will operate in the manner in which you've suggested, with one playing for a half the other playing for the other half of the game. Maybe in the Arena League but not in the NFL.
    5) I've got news for you: No one in their right mind who understands the game of football wants Cassel playing at all if Tom Brady is dressed and able to play. Its not even close my friend. Cassel is nowhere near the QB that Tom is so why would you want him to take half of each games snaps? You are forgetting how good Tom Brady is, which is too bad because he's the QB of your team and he's the best in the game.
    Injury, uncertainty...blah blah blah. No one works harder than TB and he will be ready by Game 1. Book it!
    Cassel will be playing somewhere else on a fat new contract. The only question is do we get a third in 2010 for him signing that fat new contract or does the front office roll the dice and parlay the dude into some quality picks for 2009 and or 2010.
    Its a good attempt. It just doesn't work.
    Respects.
     
  17. PatSunday

    PatSunday On the Game Day Roster

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    Why do you think so? I've had a shoulder injury before and I had trouble lifting weights (as shoulders are involved in everything but leg exercises.) I lost lots of muscle. Granted, Tom is a pro, but the best case scenario I see is that he will be healed up, but not the same player yet. But an extra month or two would give him time to get into shape again without having to play right away no-matter-what, as in your case.
     
  18. Sivy

    Sivy In the Starting Line-Up

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    Paste this post in the other thread. And then ask for that thread to be locked.
     
  19. alamo

    alamo praedica numerum! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Brady may not be 100%, but "nowhere near" is vastly overstating it. And Cassel arguably could be worth less not starting for a year, and definitely worth less should he play but get injured.

    Doubtful. Tom has renegotiated before to help the team, but always deferred money, not gave it up. And that's part of why his cap charge is so high the next two years. Why would he give up money, especially when salaries have skyrocketed since his last contract?

    If you sign Cassel for one year like you suggest, we are in the same boat next year where we must franchise him in order to get picks. (Unless there is no CBA extention, in which case he would become a RFA). Depending on the absence of a CBA extension in order to get picks for him as a RFA is stretching it.

    It just doesn't add up to a realistic scenario.
     
  20. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    ????

    Guess you have to not only read it but comprehend what you are reading.
     
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