The Situation At Safety

[Deus Irae]

I have no idea what you are trying to prove here. Let me reiterate:

at best it is barely adequate.

I'm surprised that you are arguing that judgments arrived at with little information can't be improved upon with more information, even if the extra information only serves to confirm your initial impression.

I already proved my point sufficiently that the person I was discussing the issue with has conceded it in a post. You jumped into something and are arguing something tangental, while I continue to say nothing beyond that your point is irrelevant to the initial discussion.. If there's a question about what someone's trying to prove, consult a mirror.

Now, you can keep arguing a non-issue and trying to compare multiple adequate methods for their levels of quality in your mind, but you'll have to do it with someone else, since my point was strictly that there was more than one adequate method, and that point has now been admitted.

 

[supafly]

Please provide a link stating that Steve Gregory is willing to accept a pay cut and to what extent.

Are you crazy? Honestly?

I claimed that "if I had to guess, I would imagine that Gregory would be cut," and that "I was simply providing an alternative option which could utilize Gregory's skills at a lessened cost for a safety #3 role."

How could one provide a LINK to whether or not a player would be willing to accept a pay cut? Have there not been other examples of players taking pay cuts in the past that we see every single year? How would anyone know whether or not someone would/wouldn't take a pay cut? It isn't like the market for Gregory's services would be paying him anything close to what he's making now, which is the point. He's going to have to take a pay cut no matter where he ends up, and it will likely be substantial based on a percentage scale.

I provided an example of an alternative option, and it's one that has been talked about (and still is by other people in this exact thread) many times during the past several months. You're letting your personal feelings for a player get involved with comparisons to looking at things from all angles. No one knows what Bill Belichick will do. We're simply discussing all of the options.

 

[manxman2601]

I already proved my point sufficiently that the person I was discussing the issue with has conceded it in a post. You jumped into something and are arguing something tangental, while I continue to say nothing beyond that your point is irrelevant to the initial discussion.. If there's a question about what someone's trying to prove, consult a mirror.

Now, you can keep arguing a non-issue and trying to compare multiple adequate methods for their levels of quality in your mind, but you'll have to do it with someone else, since my point was strictly that there was more than one adequate method, and that point has now been admitted.

I'm not trying to prove anything beyond the fact that you are wrong. Having done so, I shall retire gracefully :rocker: :rocker: :rocker: :rocker: :rocker:


Have a good day Deus. And that is meant respectfully, not sarcastically.

 

[VrabelJr]

I'm not trying to prove anything beyond the fact that you are wrong. Having done so, I shall retire gracefully :rocker: :rocker: :rocker: :rocker: :rocker:


Have a good day Deus. And that is meant respectfully, not sarcastically.

I think Off The Grid just possessed manxman.

 

[ATippett56]

Are you crazy? Honestly?

I claimed that "if I had to guess, I would imagine that Gregory would be cut," and that "I was simply providing an alternative option which could utilize Gregory's skills at a lessened cost for a safety #3 role."

How could one provide a LINK to whether or not a player would be willing to accept a pay cut? Have there not been other examples of players taking pay cuts in the past that we see every single year? How would anyone know whether or not someone would/wouldn't take a pay cut?

I provided an example of an alternative option, and it's one that has been talked about (and still is by other people in this exact thread) many times during the past several months.

The bottom line is Bill Belichick put the defense in the current state that it currently resides: the status quo

Starting the 2013 NFL Season with two rookie undrafted defensive tackles on the defensive line as backups (AJ Francis, Joe Vellano) was a failure.

Drafting two safeties in two consecutives years in the second round and third round that have proven to be nothing more than special teamers was a failure.

To date, no roster cuts have been exercised, no contracts have been renegotiated, no CFL players have been signed.

 

[manxman2601]

I think Off The Grid just possessed manxman.

I have a lot of respect for Deus so was just trying to end our discussion in a light-hearted manner as Grid always does (sort of).

 

[supafly]

The bottom line is Bill Belichick put the defense in the current state that it currently resides: the status quo

Starting the 2013 NFL Season with two rookie undrafted defensive tackles on the defensive line as backups (AJ Francis, Joe Vellano) was a failure.

Drafting two safeties in two consecutives years in the second round and third round that have proven to be nothing more than special teamers was a failure.

To date, no roster cuts have been exercised, no contracts have been renegotiated, no CFL players have been signed.

I don't disagree what some of what you say, but I'm just specifically referring to the position of safety, and that's how the Steve Gregory discussion started.

I agree that he's quite likely to be cut, but considering that he's likely going to have to take a paycut no matter where he goes, there may be reasons to keep him in a lesser role. I don't see many better options at the moment to be honest with you, so we'll have to wait and see what Belichick thinks.

If he feels that we can reasonably sign an improvement for the 2.8m that would be saved by cutting Gregory, one would assume that he'd definitely do it. The question comes down to Gregory making less money vs paying an outsider in a depth role, and until we know the specifics of that situation it will be hard to make much of a prediction one way or another.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't disagree what some of what you say, but I'm just specifically referring to the position of safety, and that's how the Steve Gregory discussion started.

I agree that he's quite likely to be cut, but considering that he's likely going to have to take a paycut no matter where he goes, there may be reasons to keep him in a lesser role. I don't see many better options at the moment to be honest with you, so we'll have to wait and see what Belichick thinks.

If he feels that we can reasonably sign an improvement for the 2.8m that would be saved by cutting Gregory, one would assume that he'd definitely do it. The question comes down to Gregory making less money vs paying an outsider in a depth role, and until we know the specifics of that situation it will be hard to make much of a prediction one way or another.

Yep.... mgteich made a point. This all basically started when BB cut Sanders and Meriweather without having adequate replacements, and that's led to where things are today. While the safety position might have been fixed over the course of last season by drafting one of the top 3 and having them develop, it wasn't. So, if the Patriots just cut Gregory loose, who's the replacement?

 

[Triumph]

Alright, I'll play along. Show me all of these plays where McCourty got "his butt burned." I already helped you out with two great examples. Give me more.

Give me plays. None of this generalization crap.

Thats just it. Mcourty doesnt get burned because he plays so deep.

Just like you said. His job is not not make a mistake. The pass defense improved because of Talib, Dennard and Ryan this past season. Better CB play allowed Mcourty to play better also.

 

[Sciz]

Thats just it. Mcourty doesnt get burned because he plays so deep.

Just like you said. His job is not not make a mistake. The pass defense improved because of Talib, Dennard and Ryan this past season. Better CB play allowed Mcourty to play better also.

And McCourty gives those guys a lot of freedom to get extremely physical underneath. When you put CBs that close to the line, you're leaving them more susceptible to getting beat deep (especially considering that Dennard and Ryan aren't burners), but a rangy free safety really helps to compensate for that. I don't know about the season as a whole, but at one point midway though last season, the Patriots ran more press coverage than any other team in the NFL, and a lot of that was cover 1. That's not something you can do without a free safety who is both trusted to know where to go and athletic enough to get there.

 

[Triumph]

I guess Ed Reed has sucked all this time.

Mcourty will never be in Reeds class. Reed is a 1st ballot HOFer.

The sad part is that there are actually people on here like Jack Bauer who believe Mcourty is on his way to Canton as well.

 

[RayClay]

The bottom line is Bill Belichick put the defense in the current state that it currently resides: the status quo

Starting the 2013 NFL Season with two rookie undrafted defensive tackles on the defensive line as backups (AJ Francis, Joe Vellano) was a failure.

BB ripped the achilles and ACL out of his starters? I guess he reinfected Armstead too?

 

[captain stone]

What if Bill suggested that Gregory add one year to his contract at no additional money?
Would that mean that his cap hit is reduced by half to < $2M, which would be much closer
to his actual playing value?

 

[mgteich]

Gregory is due $2.25M in salary. If Belichick asked him to spread this over two years, Gregory would simply say "no", accept being cut, and move on to someone else who might pay him more than $1.1M a year.

What if Bill suggested that Gregory add one year to his contract at no additional money?
Would that mean that his cap hit is reduced by half to < $2M, which would be much closer
to his actual playing value?

 

[All22PatsFan]

And McCourty gives those guys a lot of freedom to get extremely physical underneath. When you put CBs that close to the line, you're leaving them more susceptible to getting beat deep (especially considering that Dennard and Ryan aren't burners), but a rangy free safety really helps to compensate for that. I don't know about the season as a whole, but at one point midway though last season, the Patriots ran more press coverage than any other team in the NFL, and a lot of that was cover 1. That's not something you can do without a free safety who is both trusted to know where to go and athletic enough to get there.

Big reason why the Patriots play so much man. I also think this is why the defense could be special with an upgraded pass rush.