The Official Patriots vs Eagles Pre-Season Game Thread

[Ozymandias]

You're wrong and your comment about Mallett "learning the offense" is irrelevant because of the lockout last year. What is relevant is their play and if Tebow can only utilize two sides of a football field then that gives the opposing defense an advantage. The Patriots are not going to want to give any opposing defense an advantage by dictating which area of the field that Tebow can use because of his limited skill set.

Mallett is really in his 2nd pre-season because of no OTA's and limited training camp last year. Please stick to the facts rather than conjecture. I am re-watching this game on NFLN on Monday. I will be watching Tebow and Mallett closely.

The lockout was in 2011, not last year. We're now in 2013, so that's 2 years ago. Which is the same number of years Mallett has been in the McDaniels-led offensive system. Tebow was in that offense, or something similar to it, in 2010 where he had perhaps his best season when he saw the field in limited exposure until McDaniels was fired. He's now been in that offense, or something similar to it, again for less than 2 months.

So it isn't fair to say this is only Mallett's second pre-season because it's actually his third. It's just his second in this offense and training camp with preseason playing time.

 

[belichick010405]

The lockout was in 2011, not last year. We're now in 2013, so that's 2 years ago. Which is the same number of years Mallett has been in the McDaniels-led offensive system. Tebow was in that offense, or something similar to it, in 2010 where he had perhaps his best season when he saw the field in limited exposure until McDaniels was fired. He's now been in that offense, or something similar to it, again for less than 2 months.

So it isn't fair to say this is only Mallett's second pre-season because it's actually his third.

Either way - his rookie year not having the benefit of having a full pre-season in 2011 limited the opportunity for development. It is Mallett's 2nd full pre-season and that was the sole point of the comment. Thanks.

As for Tebow - it has been stated time and again that McDaniels was running the Perkins-Erhardt offense in Denver when Tebow was there and had a completion rate under 50%. So - do you want to re-think your statement?

 

[Demosthenes]

Mallett is really in his 2nd pre-season because of no OTA's and limited training camp last year. Please stick to the facts rather than conjecture. I am re-watching this game on NFLN on Monday. I will be watching Tebow and Mallett closely.

If you are going that route, then Tebow is his 2nd pre-season as well, cause I certainly wouldn't count the Twilight Zone year he spent with the Jets and Tony Sparano.

 

[belichick010405]

If you are going that route, then Tebow is his 2nd pre-season as well, cause I certainly wouldn't count the Twilight Zone year he spent with the Jets and Tony Sparano.

Well - there is one difference. One guy, namely BB, thought enough of Mallett to keep him. One guy, namely Elway, didn't think enough of Tebow to keep him and decided to go with Brock Osweiler, a rookie to back up Manning.

Like I said - I am going to rewatch the rest of the game that I missed. From what I saw of Mallett, he looked fine. Statistically, Tebow did what I expected.

But - this I do know, Mallett is not restricted to two-thirds of the field because he can make all of the throws. Tebow still cannot pass the ball to the right without it being broken up, picked off or simply not getting there.

The Patriots are not going to look kindly at a quarterback who cannot make the 10-and-15-yard out to the back shoulder on the right side of the field.

In other words, the Patriots are not playing in the California Penal League. This is the NFL where those throws have to be made and as Christiancat as eloquently stated "Tebow is a developmental quarterback". The Patriots don't waste roster spots on "developmental anything" unless, I have said "their upside prospects" are going to help this team in the coming years. There is no evidence after game 1 that Tebow has shown that statistically.

 

[Arrington Planet]

I disagree, I don't think he was awful per se. He's a developmental QB. Mallett has had years to learn the offense. Whereas, Tebow has had only a few weeks. Anyways I am ready to move on. I hope to see improvement from Tebow in the future and I hope he can continue to help the Pats win games.

I don't understand the logic in which a 4th year QB who can't throw (and don't tell me I'm exaggerating, you've agreed with one post that said that he can't throw to the right, is well below average throwing to the left and is "just OK" when he goes down the middle, that sounds like a very bad passer overall) is a "developmental QB" or anything else but camp fodder. But I'll give you something: having in mind we're talking about Tim Tebow, yesterday's performance was just another day in the office for him.

 

[Brady6]

I might be in the minority, but I am a fan of Mallet's game.

I like Mallet's pocket presence and how he sees plays evolving....he just needs to polish those throws off better---kind of like Rondo with his jump shot. I liked Mallet's touch pass to Dobson in the endzone that was slightly overthrown--should have been a highlight--it was good judgment by Mallet to go for the deep post touch pattern, just the execution wasn't perfect which it needs to be. If Tebow was in that situation, he wouldn't be able to see that Dobson is open in the first place. At least Mallett can recognize the plays better and with time hopefully he can be more fluid with execution.

I thought he played awful, then Tebow played and now I think Mallett played amazing.

 

[supafly]

Well - there is one difference. One guy, namely BB, thought enough of Mallett to keep him. One guy, namely Elway, didn't think enough of Tebow to keep him and decided to go with Brock Osweiler, a rookie to back up Manning.

Like I said - I am going to rewatch the rest of the game that I missed. From what I saw of Mallett, he looked fine. Statistically, Tebow did what I expected.

But - this I do know, Mallett is not restricted to two-thirds of the field because he can make all of the throws. Tebow still cannot pass the ball to the right without it being broken up, picked off or simply not getting there.

The Patriots are not going to look kindly at a quarterback who cannot make the 10-and-15-yard out to the back shoulder on the right side of the field.

In other words, the Patriots are not playing in the California Penal League. This is the NFL where those throws have to be made and as Christiancat as eloquently stated "Tebow is a developmental quarterback". The Patriots don't waste roster spots on "developmental anything" unless, I have said "their upside prospects" are going to help this team in the coming years. There is no evidence after game 1 that Tebow has shown that statistically.

First, let me say that I agree with a lot of what you say. If we're in a situation where we need an actual backup QB, I definitely want Ryan Mallett in there, even with his obvious limitations he can still at least complete downfield passes.

That said, I still think we keep Tebow on the 53 man roster. For what, you ask? I really don't know...but I don't see him going anywhere. I don't think his roster spot is in jeopardy. I think that Kraft likes his good natured high character, especially now in light of the AH situation.

I thought that a good "football" player like Tebow could be worth the low risk, but I don't want him as the QB3. The thing is--that's likely the spot for him though, at least in terms of them giving him the next season to develop, which I believe is the plan. They knew what they had when they brought him in, and on top of that they knew he'd suck in our complicated offense so they gave him his own offense. They aren't going to get rid of him this season in my opinion. No way.

 

[Joker]

I'd like to elaborate a bit, if everyone doesn't mind, on what I see as the main issue with Tebow's mechanics.

If you have been avidly watching and following all the reports, you'll note that there are what seems to be TWO distinct issues. Tebow's looping wind up passing motion and his footwork when passing the ball.

I firmly believe the throwing motion is the lesser of his mechanical problems AND the hardest to ever really correct or even improve. There have been NFL QB's with weird arm motions for as long as there's been an NFL. The real issue is footwork. Plant ------------>Throw.

Tebow HAS improved his pocket footwork. When he delivers inside the hashes and steps into the throw he actually has an adequate arm motion. I saw it in camp practice and I saw it last night. Work on timing with the receivers can be improved with reps.

On those plays where he breaks to his left out of the pocket, when he makes his throw his feet are always moving, his balance seems to usually be on his back foot and he seldom, as far as I can tell, steps INTO the throw. THAT is why his ball tips UP on those passes and his accuracy diminishes.

On the plays to his right, when he's on the move, his short dumpoffs to the backs are fine..because he's using his arm strength to place the ball where it needs to be.Watch him on these plays, he's consistent at it. His footwork on the move to his right , though, is just not consistent...at all. He makes throws leaning on his back leg, he makes throws stepping forward on the run too soon and the ball sails low, he misses long and to the wrong spot far too much on balls that have to be there to the left shoulder of the receiver.

I have no idea WHY this is. Tebow SHOULD be better throwing to his right than his left because it is naturally an easier pass for a lefty. To me, THIS is a mechanical footwork problem. When any of you get a little time, watch his pass plays and pay attention to his feet and the positioning of his feet on all these throws. It's remarkable in that there is so much variation.

I know the staff has been working on his footwork and as I said, I can SEE it has paid off on his passing from the pocket. I think he needs a lot of reps and I mean a season of work on his footwork alone. Add to that the recognition factor in regards to the different defensive sets he's seeing has to be improved exponentially IMO. There's a lot of football player here, I believe. I would rather take a chance on a player like Tebow than one with great mechanics like Ryan Leaf, simply because I believe football players with heart are far more valuable than those without a pulse.

 

[Ozymandias]

As for Tebow - it has been stated time and again that McDaniels was running the Perkins-Erhardt offense in Denver when Tebow was there and had a completion rate under 50%. So - do you want to re-think your statement?

His completion percentage was exactly 50% in 2010, it wasn't under, like you stated. Furthermore, considering he was a rookie QB in a brand new system not catered towards his skillset I thought he played fairly decent.

When judging Tim Tebow now, I try not to compare based on what I see from Tom Brady because he's not a starting QB. Nor do I judge him based on what Ryan Mallett does because he's not a back-up QB either.

I try to judge him based what other players in his position of third string are currently doing in relation to him. That's the only way to do so in proper context. In that sense, he's not that much different than a lot of other third stringers in the NFL. Most of them have issues with their mechanics, accuracy, footwork too but difference is that he's accomplished far more than the majority of them so far in his 4 seasons than many would in an entire career.

Tebow has improved a lot since he got here. A lot people don't quite see it that way but Tebow with the Jets would looked even worse than what we saw last night. That's an improvement and testament to the coaching staff specifically Brian Daboll for their hard work and coaching with him.

 

[Demosthenes]

Well - there is one difference. One guy, namely BB, thought enough of Mallett to keep him. One guy, namely Elway, didn't think enough of Tebow to keep him and decided to go with Brock Osweiler, a rookie to back up Manning.

And one guy named Bill Belichick thought enough of him to sign him to a contract

Like I said - I am going to rewatch the rest of the game that I missed. From what I saw of Mallett, he looked fine. Statistically, Tebow did what I expected.

But - this I do know, Mallett is not restricted to two-thirds of the field because he can make all of the throws. Tebow still cannot pass the ball to the right without it being broken up, picked off or simply not getting there.

The Patriots are not going to look kindly at a quarterback who cannot make the 10-and-15-yard out to the back shoulder on the right side of the field.

In other words, the Patriots are not playing in the California Penal League. This is the NFL where those throws have to be made and as Christiancat as eloquently stated "Tebow is a developmental quarterback". The Patriots don't waste roster spots on "developmental anything" unless, I have said "their upside prospects" are going to help this team in the coming years. There is no evidence after game 1 that Tebow has shown that statistically.

time will tell.

 

[patchick]

His footwork on the move to his right , though, is just not consistent...at all. He makes throws leaning on his back leg, he makes throws stepping forward on the run too soon and the ball sails low, he misses long and to the wrong spot far too much on balls that have to be there to the left shoulder of the receiver.

I have no idea WHY this is. Tebow SHOULD be better throwing to his right than his left because it is naturally an easier pass for a lefty. To me, THIS is a mechanical footwork problem. When any of you get a little time, watch his pass plays and pay attention to his feet and the positioning of his feet on all these throws. It's remarkable in that there is so much variation.

What troubles me most about Tebow is that this has been consistently said of him since high school. He stayed an extra year in college to work on his footwork and mechanics. He was drummed out of Denver because of his footwork and mechanics. He was dumped by Jersey because of his footwork and mechanics.

Yes, there is improvement, but nowhere near what you'd expect to see based on the incredible amount of coaching/teaching attention he's received, at the highest levels by the most motivated possible staffs, for YEARS. Seriously, has any player ever had more and better people try so hard to fix his fundamentals?

Being "new to the offense" is no excuse for throwing off your back foot. For whatever reason, he just can't fix this stuff. (And if he's "developmental," in his 4th year with 14 NFL starts under his belt, then Mallett is a newborn babe.)

 

[chasa]

I thought he played awful, then Tebow played and now I think Mallett played amazing.

Mallet is closer to Brady, then Tebow is to Mallet.

Mallets very far away from brady.

 

[eagle eye]

The sad thing is that there are so many haters on this board, I''m afraid the place is going to turn into a Jets messageboard.

As I said last night you could see some improvement in Tebow last night, specifically his throwing motion, the elongated windup was not there last night, and his footwork has improved dramatically.

The problems you can see are the time it takes him to get the ball off, there is no zip on this throws down the field and sometimes he just gives away the play to the D and his accuracy is a big weakness.

Why can't people come on here though saying he is awful and point out the weaknesses and admit that there were improvements. It would be nice to see a bit of intelligence at the very least from the haters.

As far as I'm concerned any player in a Patriots uniform should not be hated by us for as long as he is a Patriot.

 

[chasa]

As far as I'm concerned any player in a Patriots uniform should not be hated by us for as long as he is a Patriot.

Sure, i can get behind this, however this is a case where the patriots brought in a player, to play a position, That he is not fundamentally capable of playing at an NFL level. Its frustrating watching him take snaps away from someone who could potentially be an actual legitimate threat at QB Tebow played 2 and a third quarters, and completed 4 passes, this was against 2nd and 3rd string players.

He threw more balls into the dirt, then he did in the vicinity of patriot players hands. Hes just awful as a QB. I've seen highschool JV QB's throw better then tebow throws. Convert Tebow to a HB and lets see what happens, But get him out of the QB hole he has dug himself. if he wont play HB then hes being a selfish brat and should be cut immediately.

I honestly cant see tebow making the 53 man roster, we are set at TE, RB, and He is not a QB.

in regards to his improvements, he uhh.. well.. hmm.. He didnt turn the ball over so good boy tebow. this is his 4th year and he plays like he played last night it will be career low numbers, while being on the best team hes ever been a part of. You talking about improvements to his mechanics, That doesn't matter, hes still targeting the ground. Maybe he needs glasses.

 

[Hooya]

Any highlights available online????

 

[chasa]

I try to judge him based what other players in his position of third string are currently doing in relation to him.

oh well thats easy

Tebow 3rd string 4/12 55 yards

Phillys
barkley 3rd string 11/22 103 yards 1 td
Dennis dixon 4th string 7/13 41 yards

Both better, both in their first year of a new offense, Barkleys first ever nfl game

Seatle

Brady quinn 3rd string 6/11 59 yards 1td

san diego
B. sorensen(who?) 3rd string 7/10 84 yards 1 td

I could go through the other 3rd and 4th stringers but they all performed better.

 

[chasa]

Any highlights available online????

Best and worst of New England Patriots QB Tim Tebow - NFL Videos

really more of a Best of tim tebow video. at one point he tried to pitch the ball forward to one of the coaches on teh sideline.

 

[ROHAN KLEMM]

Most important asset of QB is to see the field. Tebow see's the pass rush only. To a far lesser degree, along with rust, seeing the field is Mallett's drawback. He has a beautiful, strong throwing motion and we should stick with him. Tavon Wilson was a mess and was not thrilled by Logan Ryan either. Just one game for Ryan, so I have to see more. Pass from Brady to Dobson was spectacular. Dobson did not have time to think about dropping it. All in all a decent start. Pats should be 11-5 or 10-6 this year. I would love to see the defensive backfield get straightened out. I believe the pass rush will be improved this year.

DBackfield of choice:

CB - Talib
CB - Dowling (who knows)

CB - Dennard
CB - Arrington

S - Mccourty
S - Wilson (not you Tavon)
S - Dowling (???)

?? - Ryan
?? - Harmon
?? - Cole
?? - Ebner
?? - Gregory

Can we get this cleaned up - who do we keep and does position drafted make it impossible to cut certain players.

 

[grux]

What troubles me most about Tebow is that this has been consistently said of him since high school. He stayed an extra year in college to work on his footwork and mechanics. He was drummed out of Denver because of his footwork and mechanics. He was dumped by Jersey because of his footwork and mechanics.

Yes, there is improvement, but nowhere near what you'd expect to see based on the incredible amount of coaching/teaching attention he's received, at the highest levels by the most motivated possible staffs, for YEARS. Seriously, has any player ever had more and better people try so hard to fix his fundamentals?

Being "new to the offense" is no excuse for throwing off your back foot. For whatever reason, he just can't fix this stuff. (And if he's "developmental," in his 4th year with 14 NFL starts under his belt, then Mallett is a newborn babe.)

I agree. Belichick talks about players improving every year. I haven't seen any improvement in Tebow's footwork, accuracy etc since he has been in the league. I have know idea why Belichick brought him in for a tryout (Leadership, different position, kicking tires, McDaniels chewing on his ear). There could sign a better #3 qb tomorrow but maybe Bill thinks his coaching staff can make him a better player.

 

[goheels22002]

oh well thats easy

Tebow 3rd string 4/12 55 yards

Phillys
barkley 3rd string 11/22 103 yards 1 td
Dennis dixon 4th string 7/13 41 yards

Both better, both in their first year of a new offense, Barkleys first ever nfl game

Seatle

Brady quinn 3rd string 6/11 59 yards 1td

san diego
B. sorensen(who?) 3rd string 7/10 84 yards 1 td

I could go through the other 3rd and 4th stringers but they all performed better.

Sacked three times - 20% of his passing downs.

If you look up the word "stiff" in the Oxford English Dictionary, you'll find a picture of Tim Tebow.