The Official "Everything OTA" Thread

[Mike the Brit]

Revis had some awfully nice things to say today

The bit that made me stand up and cheer was this:

"I think the biggest thing that people really don't understand about Bill is that Bill asks questions. He'll ask questions, he'll try to get other people's insight, especially veterans. He'll sit down and have a conversation with you."

We all know that Bill is incredibly smart and has been immersed in football all his life. He also exercises full, final say and isn't afraid to make decisions that have people outside the organization (and, I guess, in the organization too) saying "What the hell?" What's so unusual is to find that kind of authority and intellect mixed with a willing to consult with and learn from those he is leading.

You'd think it would be Leadership 101 but, for whatever screwed-up psychological reasons, anyone who has worked in an organization for a long time will know it's really, really rare. All those smartest-guy-in-the-room types who don't actually bother to register what those around them are thinking ...

 

[patsinthesnow]

Didn't a fair amount of people assume that Mike Jenkins was a lock for the roster last year? Not that he and Lafell are tremendously similar, but just saying...

Not just a roster spot. A good amount of fans thought Jenkins would start across Amendola week 1, while giving Dobson a decent chance to beat him out for the job.

Lafell is the closest thing to a lock due to his guaranteed $. If he ends up as a 3 million dollar depth WR, that's not so bad though, considering our WRs history with injuries.

 

[RayClay]

Hey--good to see Revis back today. I'm a worrier like that.

Also, great to see the DL taking shape with the injured players seeming to progress.

Ha, I was crossing my fingers and knocking on wood.

 

[supafly]

Mike Reiss agrees with Brady6's OL outlook:

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/50797/patriots-with-mike-reiss

Mike
(3:12 PM)
Chris, I've been watching the OL competition closely. I think locks are Solder, Mankins, Vollmer, Cannon, Stork, Fleming and Halapio. I'd put Kline in the near-lock category. That's seven-eight right there, so that leaves Wendell/Connolly among those hoping for the team to keep nine.

This is the part of the conversation that excites me, personally.

I have 9 OL in my early projection, and have the whole time. That includes all 3 rookies (never understood the misconception that seemed to spread like wildfire that Halapio was somehow "bad"), Kline, and ONE of Connelly/Wendell.

5 interiors--Mankins, Kline, Halapio, Stork, ONE of Connelly/Wendell

4 tackles--Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, and Fleming

I like the looks of our OL both now and for the future, not just in terms of youth and talent, but also in terms of versatility. I think just about everyone can play multiple positions if/when needed, and that's very important.

We'll have to see how it works out in a couple of months from now, but my thinking is that BB was hoping to make one of Connelly/Wendell expendable with decent enough play from Kline and the 3 rookies. Whether or not that is true, or it even happens will remain to be seen.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Is it me who never got it, or maybe you who never got it, moosekill? This "Mallett for a high round draft pick" talk has been happening for at least 2-3 yrs now, pretty much since the day he was drafted actually.

I never saw Mallett's trade value approaching anything better than a 4th rounder. Why does that mean that "I don't get it?" I would actually think it's quite the contrary, to be honest. There's no tape, other better candidates, the fact that he's in the last year of his deal which makes for some uncertainty for a new contract amount, and let's face it....he didn't exactly stand out in a positive way here.

How do you have a clear cut answer for this to suggest that "I still don't get, and I never did?" Please elaborate. I will patiently await your explanation of why this situation was any different than any of the many other Patriot players that homers saw as bringing in a high draft pick, yet didn't. To suggest that it had anything to do with this draft etc is silly. People have been banging this drum for at least the past 2 yrs.

What you don't understand is Mallet's value to Belichick's Patriots. Sometimes it is not only the price others will pay, but rather the value to yourself that counts...

Mallet is a trained backup QB that costs a hell of a lot less to keep than signing someone else. Despite your belief that Brady is invulnerable, BB knows that is not true. He won't jeopardize a possible Superbowl run simply because he has to play an untrained, therefor incompetent, QB for a couple of games if Brady were dinged up.

 

[Ring 6]

Dude, Andy is as confrontational as anyone on the board.

Not confrontational, stubborn.
There is a difference.

 

[Ring 6]

This is the part of the conversation that excites me, personally.

I have 9 OL in my early projection, and have the whole time. That includes all 3 rookies (never understood the misconception that seemed to spread like wildfire that Halapio was somehow "bad"), Kline, and ONE of Connelly/Wendell.

5 interiors--Mankins, Kline, Halapio, Stork, ONE of Connelly/Wendell

4 tackles--Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, and Fleming

I like the looks of our OL both now and for the future, not just in terms of youth and talent, but also in terms of versatility. I think just about everyone can play multiple positions if/when needed, and that's very important.

We'll have to see how it works out in a couple of months from now, but my thinking is that BB was hoping to make one of Connelly/Wendell expendable with decent enough play from Kline and the 3 rookies. Whether or not that is true, or it even happens will remain to be seen.

With that roster, what do you expect to be the starting G-C-G combo?
It looks to me like it would be worse than last year.

 

[Ring 6]

Didn't a fair amount of people assume that Mike Jenkins was a lock for the roster last year? Not that he and Lafell are tremendously similar, but just saying...

Not sure how, other than playing the same position, there is anything in common between those 2.
LaFell was signed for a midlevel 3 year deal, Jenkins for vet minimum.
LaFell is in the vicinity of his prime, Jenkins was trying to latch on for one last season.
It gets even less similar when you discuss their ability.

 

[strngplyr]

Not confrontational, stubborn.
There is a difference.

I know that i'm going against everything I've said in the last page or two about staying on topic, but I believe we just witnessed something that happens once every 2 or 3 years, a communication between DI and AJ, meaning they are not on each others ignore list.

History, people.

 

[Brady6]

This is the part of the conversation that excites me, personally.

I have 9 OL in my early projection, and have the whole time. That includes all 3 rookies (never understood the misconception that seemed to spread like wildfire that Halapio was somehow "bad"), Kline, and ONE of Connelly/Wendell.

5 interiors--Mankins, Kline, Halapio, Stork, ONE of Connelly/Wendell

4 tackles--Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, and Fleming

I like the looks of our OL both now and for the future, not just in terms of youth and talent, but also in terms of versatility. I think just about everyone can play multiple positions if/when needed, and that's very important.

We'll have to see how it works out in a couple of months from now, but my thinking is that BB was hoping to make one of Connelly/Wendell expendable with decent enough play from Kline and the 3 rookies. Whether or not that is true, or it even happens will remain to be seen.

With that roster, what do you expect to be the starting G-C-G combo?
It looks to me like it would be worse than last year.

This is my projected depth chart –

LT-Solder-Vollmer-Cannon
LG-Mankins-Halapio-Kline
OC-Connolly-Stork
RG-Cannon-Halapio-Kline
RT-Vollmer-Cannon-Fleming

 

[Brady6]

Not just a roster spot. A good amount of fans thought Jenkins would start across Amendola week 1, while giving Dobson a decent chance to beat him out for the job.

Lafell is the closest thing to a lock due to his guaranteed $. If he ends up as a 3 million dollar depth WR, that's not so bad though, considering our WRs history with injuries.

The same people thought that Bobby Carpenter was going to start at SLB instead of Hightower and Trevor Scott was going to start at RE instead of Chandler Jones back in 2012. Belichick use the veterans early on and starts the rookies and new players lower on the depth chart in most cases. Come 8/31 opinions on many of these players will be completely different.

The starting offense many project last year at this time was –

QB – Brady
RB – Ridley
WR – Jenkins
WR – Amendola
TE – Gronkowski
TE – Ballard

It ended up being this for most of the season –

QB – Brady
RB – Blount
FB - Develin
WR – Edelman
WR – Dobson
TE – Hoomanawanui

 

[Deus Irae]

I know that i'm going against everything I've said in the last page or two about staying on topic, but I believe we just witnessed something that happens once every 2 or 3 years, a communication between DI and AJ, meaning they are not on each others ignore list.

History, people.

Sorry to have to disappoint, but Andy is on my ignore list. I was responding to Brady6, who specifically mentioned Andy's name.

 

[strngplyr]

Sorry to have to disappoint, but Andy is on my ignore list. I was responding to Brady6, who specifically mentioned Andy's name.

d%#*!@t! Show is over people, nothing to see.

 

[BobDigital]

I assume by "Saxton" you mean Daxton Swanson. I agree he's had a great OTA/minicamp and seems to have a nose for the ball, but it's still a bit early to be awarding him a roster spot, IMO. Also, do you think Swanson fits better at CB or at S? He played both in college, and it seems to me that he has better ball skills than he does press/man skills. He has similar size and a somewhat similar game to Devin McCourty from what I can tell (though obviously not on the same level). There is a big crowd at the nickel/dime back right now. And what about Jemea Thomas?

I agree that Swanson has been a pleasant surprise and looks promising, but I think the depth situation at CB and S is a long way from being sorted out.

Yeah Daxton sorry. I guess i typed his name and it somehow got erased and closed those 2 words together.

I am not trying to say he is for sure on the team but for right now i would keep him over guys that have proven to not be so good and the injured Green. I think he fits more as a CB as far as skill set and actually maybe is a bit closer to Ryan than McCourty.

As for Jamea Thomas. I liked what i read when we drafted him but i have no info on how he has played. Personally I would keep him on this team as a safety due to the ability i have heard about but he needs to produce something at some point to make the 53.

Ideally right now it looks like this.

CB - Revis, Browner, Dennard, Arrington, Swanson
S - McCourty Harmon Ryan Thomas(if he shows it... if not this is probably Chung and try to put Thomas on the PS).

 

[supafly]

What you don't understand is Mallet's value to Belichick's Patriots. Sometimes it is not only the price others will pay, but rather the value to yourself that counts...

Mallet is a trained backup QB that costs a hell of a lot less to keep than signing someone else. Despite your belief that Brady is invulnerable, BB knows that is not true. He won't jeopardize a possible Superbowl run simply because he has to play an untrained, therefor incompetent, QB for a couple of games if Brady were dinged up.

No disrespect intended, but I think you are meaning to respond to someone else. I have been an adocate of Mallett's worth to this team, which has been exactly why I never expected them to trade them. I never believed for a second that we'd have traded away our only backup prior to seeing if JG would be able to even pick up the system.

As a matter of fact, I constantly reminded everyone that it was very unlikely that Belichick wouldn't be keeping 3 QBs, unless our new guy (who ended up being JG) looked great in camp. Even then, I don't see how that supports your argument that Mallett is worth a high draft pick?

To be completely honest---I have no idea what your comments have to do with stating my belief that Ryan Mallett isn't worth anything higher than a 4th round pick. Like I said, I think you are confusing me with someone else.

 

[supafly]

With that roster, what do you expect to be the starting G-C-G combo?
It looks to me like it would be worse than last year.

Obviously, the first part of the G-C-G corps is going to include pro Bowler Logan Mankins. The center and guard duo should be improved upon with many different choices to go through, and lots of competition/versatility. There should be an "addition by subtraction" aspect from removing one of the (un) dynamic duo of Wendell/Connelly alone. Wasn't that the main goal of this whole offseason exercise?

I'm not sure why anyone would automatically look at think that things would somehow be worse, with Vollmer coming back, Kline having another year in our system, and adding more youth and talent via draft picks?

If it ends up that none of Stork, Halapio, or Kline cannot beat out ONE of Connelly/Wendell, then we'll simply keep both and stay status quo; and that's not even taking the return of Vollmer into account, let alone the improvement of a piss poor bunch of receiving options that likely contributed as well. I couldn't see how it would get worse.

 

[supafly]

This is my projected depth chart –

LT-Solder-Vollmer-Cannon
LG-Mankins-Halapio-Kline
OC-Connolly-Stork
RG-Cannon-Halapio-Kline
RT-Vollmer-Cannon-Fleming

I find that to be quite reasonable. My only beef would be the argument that Kline may be better equipped to handle the LG duties above Halapio, although I'd keep yours the same on the R side.

Your projection is the removal of Wendell, which would coincide with my belief that there is a high possibility that one of he or Connelly will be removed by the end of cutdowns.

 

[Brady6]

I find that to be quite reasonable. My only beef would be the argument that Kline may be better equipped to handle the LG duties above Halapio, although I'd keep yours the same on the R side.

Your projection is the removal of Wendell, which would coincide with my belief that there is a high possibility that one of he or Connelly will be removed by the end of cutdowns.

Based on early reports Halapio and Kline are both seeing significant reps with the starters, combine that with Stork and Fleming both being fourth round draft choices. That does not bode well for both Wendell and Connolly making the team, so I agree with your thinking that only one will make the team. Personally, I favor Connolly as I believe he is the superior player and also the more versital.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Based on early reports Halapio and Kline are both seeing significant reps with the starters, combine that with Stork and Fleming both being fourth round draft choices. That does not bode well for both Wendell and Connolly making the team, so I agree with your thinking that only one will make the team. Personally, I favor Connolly as I believe he is the superior player and also the more versital.

People ended last season with an agenda of replacing Wendell. Perhaps it will happen. But I don't think that you can treat the fact that Halapio and Kline are getting reps with the starters in mini-camp as evidence to support it. They haven't been able to beat anyone out in full-contact comparison. Perhaps it's just a matter of getting them experience with calls and alignments.

 

[BobDigital]

Well since nothing is happening now for near a month time for some crazy pronouncements. My current 53 Man roster with PS players!

Offense 25

QB - 2 - Brady Gara (Why carry 3? I think we will but we shouldn't bother).
TE - 2 - Gronk Hooman (Maybe we add a FA but Jones and Watson have not earned a spot IMO)
WR - 7 - Edelman Amendola Dobson KT Boyce Lafell Slater (lots of 3 WR sets)
RB/FB - 5 - Rildey Vereen White Finch Dev (If Bolden makes it over Finch it will be due to STs)
OC - 2 - Wendell Stork (for now till Stork hopefully beats him out)
OG - 4 - Mankins Halapio Kline Cannon
OT - 3 - Solder Vollmer Fleming

Defense - 25

DE - 4 - Jones Nink Smith Bucannon
DT - 5 - Wilfork Kelly Easley Jones Silvia
LB - 6 - Mayo Collins Hightower Anderson Beau Hull
CB - 5 - Revis Browner Dennard Arrington Daxton (Browner in 4 wks so i will just count him here)
FS - 5 - McCourty Harmon Ryan Chung Thomas

STs - 3 (duh. you know who they are... well LS job might be up for grabs : P)

P.S.
OL? Someone.
Gallon - WR
Houston - RB
Jones - TE
Moore - DE/DT
Vellano - DT
Gordon - LB
Green - DB