*The Official Draft Rolando McClain warwagon!*

[ctpatsfan77]

3 or 4 for me.
WR's and OLB's should be signed in free agency. I relly do hope that Wilfork and Mankins sign long-term contracts.

I'm with Belichick. I'm always tempted to move up, but from the 20's, it is usually better to stand pat or move down. If I could get Iupati or Cody or an equiivalent player at 22, I would nto even consider moving up. This is a great draft beacuse of the threat of rookie slary cap. Perhaps we will indeed get a blue chip player at 22. I usually don't expect more than one to slip past 16. I'm also fine with moving up a spot or two, but I hope that we don't need that.

It should only cost about a 6 or a 7 to move up one or two slots.

 

[Nonentity]

No way he goes top 5.Highest he goes is 10 or 11, wherever the Broncos first pick is.

I'm pretty certain that the Broncos will take Mt. Cody, unless Wilfork finds his way out to Denver.

They're running the 3-4 which can never work properly without a legitimate NT. They need one badly. Ronald Fields is not that guy, but Cody is. His presence can make DJ Williams' life a lot easier by tying up blockers.


I think we can get McClain, and he'll fall into the mid-teens where we can easily trade up to grab him. But my huge concern is our pass rush - I want two 1st/2nd round OLBs, i.e. Carlos Dunlop/Greg Hardy/Greg Romeus/Austen Lane. We also need a 3-4 DE to replace Seymour unless anyone thinks that Myron Pryor can start at that spot, and I'm not sure how he holds up against the run.

Ignoring a McClain pick, I'd bite your hand off if I could do this:

22 - Carlos Dunlop if he's available, or the best value remaining, e.g. CJ Spiller/Jonathan Dwyer/Jermaine Gresham (if BB rates the latter highly and we don't retain Watson)
42/44 - Greg Hardy/Greg Romerus if we don't pick Dunlop, otherwise pick the best available 3-4 DE (depending on value)
47/48 - Vladimir Ducasse (start at RG, with a view to eventually moving to RT)
53 - Austen Lane


Does anyone have an opinion on Pat Angerer, ILB, Iowa, as a later-round alternative to McClain? He gets a great write-up in two places.

 

[mayoclinic]

Ignoring a McClain pick, I'd bite your hand off if I could do this:

22 - Carlos Dunlop if he's available, or the best value remaining, e.g. CJ Spiller/Jonathan Dwyer/Jermaine Gresham (if BB rates the latter highly and we don't retain Watson)
42/44 - Greg Hardy/Greg Romerus if we don't pick Dunlop, otherwise pick the best available 3-4 DE (depending on value)
47/48 - Vladimir Ducasse (start at RG, with a view to eventually moving to RT)
53 - Austen Lane

That's pretty close to my list. I'd ideally like:

- A strong side DE/OLB pass rusher (Shawne Merriman in FA, or Carlos Dunlap or Greg Romeus via the draft)
- A weak side DE/OLB pass rusher - Austen Lane is my preference, but Jason Pierre-Paul, Sergio Kindle, Ricky Sapp and possibly Jerry Hughes or Von Miller would all be options
- A true SILB to complement Mayo (Karlos Dansby in FA and Rolando McClain in the draft are the elite options; there are some more blue collaro options as well)
- Vladimir Ducasse, Gabe Carimi or Maurkice Pouncey in the 2nd round
- An offensive all-purpose playmaker, either in FA (Reggie Bush) or the draft (CJ Spiller, Jahvid Best, Golden Tate, Dexter McCluster)

I'd also like a developmental RT and 3-4 DE.

My ideal would be to sign Karlos Dansby in FA, trade 42, 53 and 120 to Atlanta for 19 and 83, and take:

19 CJ Spiller RB
22 Carlos Dunlap, DE/OLB
47 Vlad Ducasse, Gabe Carimi or Marukice Pouncey at OG; or Mike Johnson with a trade back
83 (possibly with a trade up) Austen Lane, DE/OLB

 

[BelichickFan]

Who's the best complement to Mayo inside ? I love McClain - love him - but would we end up with two athltic ILB but no ass kicking tough guy ? I can't help but wonder if we'd be better off with a Brandon Spikes who's a tough, physical player but lacking a little in the hips and quickness rather than trading up for the elite athlete.

 

[BritPat]

BF - if we want a true run-stopping ILB to compliment Mayo, then Micah Johnson would be my pick.

Depending on what we want to do, I'd not mind the first three rounds playing out like this:

Pats trade Adalius Thomas to Kansas for their third round pick (#68), and trade Nick Kaczur plus their first seventh round pick (#214) to Denver for their third round pick (#80).

R1 #22 - Mike Iupati (G Idaho)

R2 #44 - Jared Odrick (DT PSU)

R2 #47 - Maurkice Pouncey (C Florida)

R2 #53 - Austen Lane (DE Murray State)

R3 #68 - Ryan Matthews (RB Fresno State)

R3 #80 - Micah Johnson (ILB UK)

Just something different I thought I'd put out there if we don't go the multiple pass-rush route.

 

[Kontradiction]

Who's the best complement to Mayo inside ? I love McClain - love him - but would we end up with two athltic ILB but no ass kicking tough guy ? I can't help but wonder if we'd be better off with a Brandon Spikes who's a tough, physical player but lacking a little in the hips and quickness rather than trading up for the elite athlete.

I'm a Gator fan, and I love what Spikes has been able to do for us, but if there is one thing that this season showed, it is that Spikes is NOT an "ass kicking tough guy". I've seen him get blown up by opposing guards and tight ends more than I care to talk about.

I'll sign my name up for the McClain bandwagon, but there isn't a chance in hell that we're going to be in a position to draft him. We have a better shot at getting Dansby and going after an OLB in the draft.

 

[BelichickFan]

I'm a Gator fan, and I love what Spikes has been able to do for us, but if there is one thing that this season showed, it is that Spikes is NOT an "ass kicking tough guy". I've seen him get blown up by opposing guards and tight ends more than I care to talk about.

I guess he won't do then because he's not athletic enough for my liking. We need a guy who's a solid athlete but one who is tough enough to play the run and also doesn't cost so much that we have too much invested at ILB.

I'm assuming McKenzie will end up at an ILB spot although it would obviously be silly to plan for him being more than a backup for now. Without spending too much draft choice capital, a guy who fits well with Mayo would work well with McKenzie as, hopefully, a solid backup.

 

[Kontradiction]

I guess he won't do then because he's not athletic enough for my liking. We need a guy who's a solid athlete but one who is tough enough to play the run and also doesn't cost so much that we have too much invested at ILB.

I'm assuming McKenzie will end up at an ILB spot although it would obviously be silly to plan for him being more than a backup for now. Without spending too much draft choice capital, a guy who fits well with Mayo would work well with McKenzie as, hopefully, a solid backup.

Agreed. Being a solid back-up is the most we should expect from McKenzie right now. If he's able to contribute anything more than that, it will be an excellent suprise.

 

[BritPat]

Been thinking about McKenzie a lot over the last few weeks, and I'm part way through quite a detailed post about him and the future of the team. I'll get it finished off and post it.

 

[BelichickFan]

Agreed. Being a solid back-up is the most we should expect from McKenzie right now. If he's able to contribute anything more than that, it will be an excellent suprise.

A real key to all this is how they feel about the young LB, McKenzie, Guyton, Crable (yes, I know).

The first two can both play inside or outside, Crable outside, whether Belichick and staff see any of these as starters or just backups is kind of important. Personally I see the first two as good backups and Crable I'm ready to move on from. However if McKenzie or Guyton ends up as a longterm starter next to Mayo and Crable actually can play the WOLB spot, things could change quickly.

 

[makoute]

A real key to all this is how they feel about the young LB, McKenzie, Guyton, Crable (yes, I know).

The first two can both play inside or outside, Crable outside, whether Belichick and staff see any of these as starters or just backups is kind of important. Personally I see the first two as good backups and Crable I'm ready to move on from. However if McKenzie or Guyton ends up as a longterm starter next to Mayo and Crable actually can play the WOLB spot, things could change quickly.

People are still counting on Crable? As far as I can see the Pats have Mayo and Guyton...

 

[BelichickFan]

People are still counting on Crable? As far as I can see the Pats have Mayo and Guyton...

Um . . .

Crable I'm ready to move on from

That's not what I said. But as long as Belichick keeps him around he's not finished here. Maybe that changes in August. And it's silly to ignore McKenzie who they drafted in the 3rd round. He had tons of time to get the knee healthy, he could be a help to us.

 

[Nonentity]

Who's the best complement to Mayo inside ? I love McClain - love him - but would we end up with two athltic ILB but no ass kicking tough guy ? I can't help but wonder if we'd be better off with a Brandon Spikes who's a tough, physical player but lacking a little in the hips and quickness rather than trading up for the elite athlete.

BF - if we want a true run-stopping ILB to compliment Mayo, then Micah Johnson would be my pick.

If we want a straight Bruschi replacement, Micah Johnson is a strong choice.

But we constantly seem to be weak in coverage when we have linebackers playing zone defence in the middle of the field. Mayo is always close but never close enough. I'm not sure I've ever seen him break up a pass, although NFL.com says 4 passes defensed in 2008 and 1 in 2009. This was why I suggested Pat Angerer, who has had a decent number of INTs as a linebacker. If we instead look to play a Big Nickel (3 safeties & 2 corners) more often then we could stick with ILBs as pure run defenders, but it's something that bugs me a bit at the moment.

 

[BelichickFan]

If we want a straight Bruschi replacement, Micah Johnson is a strong choice.

But we constantly seem to be weak in coverage when we have linebackers playing zone defence in the middle of the field. Mayo is always close but never close enough. I'm not sure I've ever seen him break up a pass, although NFL.com says 4 passes defensed in 2008 and 1 in 2009. This was why I suggested Pat Angerer, who has had a decent number of INTs as a linebacker. If we instead look to play a Big Nickel (3 safeties & 2 corners) more often then we could stick with ILBs as pure run defenders, but it's something that bugs me a bit at the moment.

I'd like to get a relatively cheap Ted Johnson type to play with Mayo on early downs. And a coverage guy, either from LB or S, for passing downs. I'm not sure Mayo is great at either coverage or getting off blocks but I think he can cover a ton of ground and deliver a good hit in either circumstance. I may be wrong but I see McClain as a better version of Mayo moreso than as a complement to him.

 

[Nonentity]

I'd like to get a relatively cheap Ted Johnson type to play with Mayo on early downs. And a coverage guy, either from LB or S, for passing downs. I'm not sure Mayo is great at either coverage or getting off blocks but I think he can cover a ton of ground and deliver a good hit in either circumstance. I may be wrong but I see McClain as a better version of Mayo moreso than as a complement to him.

Ok so you can do the substitutions, fine, but who do you play on 2nd and 10? The run's still an option, as is the pass. We keep making good plays on 1st down then giving it up over the next two, which is why I'd like a player who's better in coverage.

What we certainly need in my scenario, however, is a Seymour replacement. And I'm not sure who the good 3-4 DEs are now that Cameron Heyward isn't coming out until 2011.

 

[BelichickFan]

Ok so you can do the substitutions, fine, but who do you play on 2nd and 10? The run's still an option, as is the pass. We keep making good plays on 1st down then giving it up over the next two, which is why I'd like a player who's better in coverage.

In a perfect world I'd love that too, getting the athleticism of McClain and Mayo together. And I think we COULD do it as McClain may not go until #15 or so in this strong draft; we are within striking range at #22. I just wonder if we'd be better spending resources elsewhere and getting two guys to do it, one for run downs, another for passing downs. But, sure, if McClain gets close enough and if the two athletes can be tough enough on the run in early downs (which I think they should be with Wilfork in front of them at least for next season) that works for me.

Regarding Seymour's replacement, I can't help you there.

 

[DreaIVIS]

No way he goes top 5.Highest he goes is 10 or 11, wherever the Broncos first pick is.

He goes to Kansas City. The farthest he will drop is to Cleveland at #7. Quote me if you like.

McClain is a once in a decade type of LB prospect. Players like that don't slip to the teens.

 

[TriplecHamp]

He goes to Kansas City. The farthest he will drop is to Cleveland at #7. Quote me if you like.

McClain is a once in a decade type of LB prospect. Players like that don't slip to the teens.

After seeing Matt Cassel beat up they Chiefs need to protect him so Okrung would probably be their first choice. If Berry slips to 5 than he will most likely be the pick followed by NT. Cleavland will be looking QB! I like McClain but a once in a decade? Once in a decade prospects go top 5.

 

[DreaIVIS]

After seeing Matt Cassel beat up they Chiefs need to protect him so Okrung would probably be their first choice. If Berry slips to 5 than he will most likely be the pick followed by NT. Cleavland will be looking QB! I like McClain but a once in a decade? Once in a decade prospects go top 5.

Yes, he is a once in a decade type of LB prospect. But the fact that you have guys like Suh and Berry in this draft you won't see him getting picked in the top 3 like Curry did. Curry wouldn't be a top 3 pick in this years draft that is for sure.

McClain is NFL ready. He already has the size needed that prospects like Willis and Beason did not have when they were drafted.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Yes, he is a once in a decade type of LB prospect. But the fact that you have guys like Suh and Berry in this draft you won't see him getting picked in the top 3 like Curry did. Curry wouldn't be a top 3 pick in this years draft that is for sure.

McClain is NFL ready. He already has the size needed that prospects like Willis and Beason did not have when they were drafted.

Curry would be a top 10 pick if he came out this year though. Curry coming out was just as good of a prospect as McClain. Pat Willis is the perfect example of a once in a decade prospect. Tell me the next time a 6'1 241lbs Linebacker runs a 4.37 forty and I will show you the next LB Prospect of the decade. McClain is great but its his mental approach to the game and experience in the 3-4 that sets him apart from the pack. The 6'4 240 only helps his cause, not to mention that he plays behind a top 20 NT which we have on the team already.