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The McDaniels Effect

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  1. Oceanviewer1

    Oceanviewer1 Rookie

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    I know it's early to be thinking about this, but what kind of an effect do you think the influence of Josh McDaniels will have on the current offenseive game plan? Will it necessitate the Pats going after a legitimate wide receiver who can stretch the field? How about acquiring an every-down back (ala Cory Dillon)? Just something to chew on until the Draft and free agency.
  2. Bertil

    Bertil Rookie

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    I don't really see much difference in the McDaniels gameplan that lost SB 42 with the BoB one that lost last night. Too much passing, too little running combined with almost no imagination. I am not exactly optimistic. I will try hard to be once this pain wears away.
  3. MP-Logick

    MP-Logick Rookie

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    I believe it'll be similar to what we did this year, tweaked of course for new personnel or whatever Belichick wants to do. I think the people who believe that we're going to go back to constant 3 WR sets and never ever running because McDaniels is back are wrong, Belichick and McDaniels will do their best to have a system based around the people on the team.

    However I bet you we see more things like flea flickers and stuff like that though, you know McD always loved those plays like the lateral to Moss against the Steelers in 2007.

    For those who have been complaining about no deep threat (I accidentally typed throat and had to change it btw) I wouldn't be surprised if under McD there's a little more emphasis on that and those kind of plays. For me the biggest takeaway from yesterday's game was when you have an offense that relies on short passes, it is very hard to have multiple long, sustained drives against a good defense without a big play or two. We had two straight, at the end of the first and the start of the second half, and then just couldn't put one together for the rest of the game.
  4. MP-Logick

    MP-Logick Rookie

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    We were trying to get the big play all the time in that game. This time we were throwing short passes to excellent effect. The interception and the drop killed drives in the second half that were going very well. They started with bad field position and just couldn't finish their drives this time.
  5. oldskool138

    oldskool138 Rookie

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    Hopefully, he's not as run-averse as he was when he was here the first time.
  6. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    McDaniels was taught by Belichick ... he will work with what we have IMO.
  7. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    To be fair to the coordinators, there is only so much you can do when your best offensive weapon outside of Tom Brady is hobbled at the worst possible time.
  8. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    Pretty much the way I feel about it.
    Look at the pass/run ratio from '07 and yesterday. :mad:
    BO'B and Mac are the same person or is it that the QB is really the problem here and refuses to use all his weapons.
  9. MP-Logick

    MP-Logick Rookie

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    Yes, Brady's playcalling clearly lost that game. Also, 1+1=3.
  10. stcjones

    stcjones Rookie

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    Brilliant post.....Josh McD didn't seem to be much different than what BOB brought out last night. I was psyched with some of the "different" wrinkles that I saw in the Denver game that were pretty creative. Hernandez out of the backfield.....the Weis quick screens....Gronk dropping back behind line to lay a block for the RB.....but those were not there much during the Balt and SB games. Just the usual Empty backfield that sells out the play completely and a whole bunch of shotgun draws (which were pretty effective last night) But we needed to pound the ball more last night....or make the D pay for a blitz with a quick pass to a RB in the flat or set up in backfield to keep them honest. I am not overly confident with McD coming back afterall....First of all it has to start with the personnel....and yes we need some KICK A#$ WR's, RB's and some top notch secondary players to start with. "If you don't have the groceries....you can't make a gourmet meal"-Bill Parcells
  11. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    I was just about to make a thread about this and i gotta say i agree on the general consensus in here...it's seems like a wash. He certainly isn't going to stick the running game any longer than BOB.
  12. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    i dont think josh is a great OC i think the offense will be the same they will score 35+ vs bad teams and will have a hard time scoreing 20 vs any team that can hold gronk and welker under 10 rec each,


    for me the key is can BB build a defense in 2012 that can get the big 3 and outs
  13. BradyMoss812

    BradyMoss812 Rookie

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    But if we bring in a deep threat (which I think we will), then that stretches the field vertically and Gronk, Hernandez & Welker get more catches.

    Imagine if opposing teams have to worry about someone like Colston, VJax or Lloyd going downfield, with what we have already that's a matchup nightmare.
  14. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

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    IMO there was a HUGE difference

    the pats were ALOT smarter this sb, they kept it underneath mostly, they didn't try and impose their deep passing game on the giants like they did in sb 42

    in sb 42, they kept calling plays that took way too long to develop for the dline they were trying to develop them against....it just wasn't smart

    this sb, brady had 16 completions in a row, because NE was taking what was being given to them, it was very smart

    i'm not saying they didn't run enough, it's clear they didn't as evidenced by the time of possession discrepancy, but the passing game in sb 46 was leaps and bounds smarter than sb 42
  15. parthasas

    parthasas Patriots Nation PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I totally agree ! until we establish a good clock killing running game and STICK to it in crucial games AKA superbowl, he ain't gonna do squat. BoB, McD are all cut from the same cloth, No adjustments, No imagination.
  16. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, it could be worse. He could be as run adverse as Charlie Weis who is the only Patriots OC to have the Pats run for less than 42% of the time (39.6%) in a single season.

    People need to stop this "McDaniels never had the Pats run the ball crap". Other than 2004 where the Pats rand for nearly 51% of the time and 2003 where they ran for under 40% of the time, the Pats have always ran between 42-47% of the time no matter the coordinators. The stats back that up. McDaniels haters just made up the myth that he hated to run the ball.
  17. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    McDaniels is far more imaginative than O'Brien. Even last year, people were complaining how predictable the Pats' offense was. McDaniels also seems to know how to attack other team's weaknesses better than O'Brien and the Pats almost always had fast starts with him.

    O'Brien was better at making adjustments though.

    Overall, McDaniels is a better OC. Based on how much time Belichick spent with his back to the game working with the defense with McDaniels vs. O'Brien, I think Belichick trusts McDaniels more to call a game without his supervision. Because the defense needed his attention less when McDaniels was here than when O'Brien ran things, yet he worked with the defense more to make in game adjustments when McDaniels was here running the offense.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2012
  18. sevengables_2207

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    I can see them going after Brandon Lloyd in FA.

    As for every down runningback, I heard a rumor that Run DMC is on the trading block. If this is even true, and NE feels the need to add a complete running back, he may be someone they inquire about, although I think they are okay at that position (personally feel they, as a unit, were underutilized and misused by O'Brien).
  19. sevengables_2207

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    They had a guy named Moss who set records that season. Might explain why they called their fare share of long developing plays for their all-pro deep option in the passing game.
  20. makoute

    makoute Rookie

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    That's because they don't really have a deep passing game.
  21. Gronkandez

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    I disagree. I think Ridley and Vareen will offer a much more dynamic option next year, once they get their fundamentals down. Instead of three yards on every single carry there will be big runs that will make the defense pay for playing nickel.

    In general I think McDaniels will be better.
  22. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In Super Bowl 42, the tight end position was a disaster and the running game was getting shut down as a result, the Patriots did, in fact, make adjustments to the game plan. Neal got injured, Brady couldn't move, and the Patriots were left with only Welker as the short outlet. The Giants were able to take him away and pressure the hell out of Brady. A healthy Brady wins that game.
  23. UofApatsfan

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    McDaniels made it clear in SB 42 he doesn't have a clue how to attack any team's weakness.

    By no means was O'Brien a legendary offensive coordinator or anything, but he was better than McDaniels. On top of that he isn't a narcissistic a**hole like McDaniels who only needed 2 seasons to alienate all of Denver's fans and players against him.

    Neither guy unfortunately is close to the offensive coordinator Weis was.

    EDIT: For all who think the running game is a major concern with McDaniels, that's not really something to worry about. It's not like they had a Juggernaut running game with O'Brien and it's not like you need a juggernaut running game in today's NFL. The major concern I have with McDaniels is him maybe trying to go to more of a deep ball attack when the only reason the deep ball offense was so successful here was having the best deep ball receiver of all time. As long as Brady is QB the offense should be focused on utilizing his ability to spread the ball and deliver extremely accurate short passes. Tom Brady's deep ball isn't something to build an offense around.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2012
  24. eom

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    I think mcdaniels likes his 3 wide sets, but that probably just means hernandez is used as a wr.

    Hopefully, they can get some production out of vereen and ridley.
  25. Rob0729

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    First, the legend of Weis was far better than the actual Weis. Weis had one season where people weren't biatching about his play calling and that is when they had an elite RB. The 2003 offense was mediocre and couldn't stay on the field. Weis was a very good OC, but not nearly as good as people make him out to be.

    Second, McDaniels may have been the best OC of the Belichick era. All you have to do is look at what he did with Matt Cassel in 2008 or how this offense worked with Reche Caldwell as the lead WR in 2006 to support that. I like Billy O'Brien, but he isn't as good as McDaniels.

    Third, everyone points to the Super Bowl to discredit McDaniels, but people refuse to accept that Brady was hobbled with an ankle sprain, Stephen Neal went out early in the game, Mankins had the worst game of his career, Moss was in his typical fall off in the playoffs mode (and he actually played well), and that the Giants were just a bad match up for the Pats' offense (which hasn't actually changed) and they played one hell of a game on defense that game. People forget the otherworldly gameplan vs. Jacksonville in the Division round or how the Patriots won the game vs. San Deigo keeping the ball for 2/3 of the 4th quarter on one offensive drive.
  26. The Boston Patriot

    The Boston Patriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Neither of them possess the skill set required to win the whole enchilada without having vastly superior manpower. Unimaginative and textbook is how I would classify both of them. McDaniels is not any better than O'Brien and I for one, was very unimpressed with O'B's handling of the offense. I wish BB had gone in another direction and hired from outside the org to infuse some new and creative thinking into the offensive planning and execution. It doesn't need a lot but it does need some, especially the ability to think on your feet and in real time. I have felt that it takes way too long to adapt to the defensive gameplans of other teams essentially squandering valuable time. It's a good thing we have Brady or we would be so screwed.
  27. Bertil

    Bertil Rookie

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    Charlie Weis was heavily derided on this board (albeit by the likes of former member NEM...remember him?), but in SB 39 his genius was on full display. Those two consecutive screen passes to Corey Dillon from the Patriot's own goal line proved to me that he knew his opponent well, could predict their Defensive calls and perfectly attacked it at a critical time. Those were extremely high risk calls. If they had failed, it would've swung the game in Arlen Specter's favor. On Sunday, I saw no calls from the Offense "letting it all hang out", as John Madden would've said. Let's hope Josh has incorporated that gunslinger mentality into his playcalling, to be used judiciously, of course.
  28. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Pats have won one Super Bowl on the offense. Ironically, it is one of the worst years for the offense in the Belichick era. The Pats clearly didn't win the Super Bowl against the Rams on offense. It was the defense that slowed down Philly that won that game too.

    Both O'Brien dealt with something Weis never did in the Super Bowl though, injuries to key personnel.

    Also, McDaniels' legacy would have been completely rewritten if Samuel caught his easy INT, Meriweather caught his INT, or David Tyree didn't have a velcro helmet.
  29. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Josh is a fine OC and works very, very well with Brady. Josh will take advantage of the personnel that he has. With a healthy Brady, we will be fine.

    The front office decisions on RB and interior lineman are business as usual decisions. We will do fine no matter what is decided.

    The only really open issue on the offense (and it is HUGE) is at WR. We don't have any. Welker, Branch and Slater are unsigned. Ochocinco would need to sign a new contract (he is essentially a free agent), if we even wanted him to stay. Edelman is a special teamer and backup defensive back, and yes, he could be our slot receiver if it came to that. We can keep Underwood if we want,

    BOTTOM LINE
    As of now, we have Edelman and Underwood for 2012.
  30. Rob0729

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    Never said Weis was bad. He was very good. I just think he was not nearly as good as people remember him. He was predictable (loved to run the FB draw on third down which rarely worked, always threw deep after a turnover, etc.) as much as McDaniels or O'Brien. His offenses struggled (the Pats were worse on third down conversion rate in 2003 than I think any time in the Brady era). He gave up on the run in games except in 2004.

    I like Weis, but people give him a free pass on his flaws because he won three Super Bowls. Without that defense, I don't think he would have won a single Super Bowl though. In 2003, the Pats probably don't even make the playoffs. Same in 2001. The 2004 team might have made the playoffs, but not very far in it.

    The bottom line is this is a team game. Weis won because Crennel's defenses were outstanding (and visa versa). The Pats haven't had an outstanding defense since 2004.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2012
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