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The Larry English Thread (merged)


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My two coppers on the matter. While I certainly do like Larry English (note avatar) I simply feel that Connor Barwin has more value as a conversion prospect at 23 or 34. The logic for this is very simple. First, we are operating under the assumption that the transition from DE to OLB will be a gamble. It's a low percentage deal, a leading indicator as to why Belichick has shied from drafting such a prospect in the early rounds. Because of this, relative experience becomes a moot point. There are no exact Belichick 34's in college football and that includes Al Groh's scheme because two-gapping in a spread heavy league doesn't make much sense. In essence, you are drafting an athlete and plugging him into a new scheme. So, when one considers these operating perimaters, it changes the requirements for evaluation.

Consider Suggs' rookie season. He was so inept at playing out of the two point, he was lining up three yards deep out of the three point. The nature of the rush is different from stance to stance. Speaking from experience, the momentum shifts are different, the hand placements are different, the pivot points are different, everything changes. What you are looking for is an athlete that displays attributes that correlate well to the position change over a seasoned starter with a full compliment of 43 pass rush moves. In fact, having so much muscle memory engrained into your playing style can even hinder the transition.

So, with these things in mind, what do we look for? We look for a guy with a high motor, leadership characteristics, ability to transition to new positions, hip fluidity, run technique, footspeed and character. What we know about English is that he is a good to excellent 43 defensive end. He has teriffic motor, teriffic hands, teriffic feet and is decent in his hips. What we don't know about English is how well he adapts to position changes. We also know that he (and every other OLB prospect coming out) also isn't close to Barwin as an overall athlete. What we know about Barwin is that he has terrific motor, terrif foot speed and great hips. What we also know about Barwin is that he has demonstrated the ability to take on a completely new position and become an impact player at that position in one year. We also know that he understands what routes tight ends run, how they release, how they get off jams, their blocking techniques and their defensive reads. This is exactly what enabled Troy Brown to play corner at a relatively high level.

Finally, while I aknowledge that Larry English would be a solid pickup, there is no evidence that clearly shows his ability to transition between positions. This exists with Barwin and he has tremendous upside to go with it. When you also factor in that we are looking at a potential DeMarcus Ware level player with fairly minimal risk for late 1st or early 2nd round money, the pick becomes a bit of no-brainer.

That bit really struck me. Now hear me out...I don't know how many time's I've seen this in Lacrosse (I know different sport, but hold up for a second). A player will be average at attack/offense for example. Then he'll be messing around in practice and surprise, he's a great defenseman. While he knows what moves to pull when on o, he just always seems to mess them up, and knows how to mess up someone else trying to do them. It also makes you more aware of the hints an opponent is sending out with his body
(different sport, but I'm sure there are similarities). I've seen this over and over again (in lax, not this weird game with the leather ball:D), and it just sold me on Barwin (not that I care all that much, but while I'm here I may as well take a side in the LB debate. Although I'll take a LT over LB...). Given, this is on a much higher level, but the thought process works for me. Now if only I could hibernate until this entire mind game was over!
 
Warning - Another LB conversion thread! Larry English

Just reading about Larry English, seems like he will be available at 34.

In high school he played MLB. I wonder he could be used for depth at all LB positions and as a situational pass rusher... hmmm... I wonder...
 
Re: Warning - Another LB conversion thread! Larry English

:singing: my binky!

I think the production speaks for itself. And if that doesn't grab you then watch his performance at the Senior Bowl against top level competition. He never quits on a play. I would value him at #23 myself, but with the depth at this position he could be available at #34.
 
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