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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.As I said before the woe on this board if BB picks no OLB's at all on day 1 is going to be funny
Woods and Thomas will be the starting OLB's with Crabel and TBC in rotation .. lets see if he and the FO think any of these guys is worth a day 1 pick and on their board
And I just can't have the word "risk" attatched to my 1st round selection, especially when it's filling a role that is so desperately needed to have an impact sooner rather than later. English has quite the resume of a proven player & that's what I want from my 1st round pick.
I like English a lot, but since when is a small-conference DL whose calling card is running straight to the QB and who looks awkward in space a risk-free OLB prospect?
I like English a lot, but since when is a small-conference DL whose calling card is running straight to the QB and who looks awkward in space a risk-free OLB prospect?
I never said risk free!
I just can't have the word "risk" attatched to my 1st round selection...English has quite the resume of a proven player & that's what I want from my 1st round pick.
As I've said, I'm fairly high on English myself. My point is just that the anti-Barwin camp says "can't have Barwin, he's risky"...as if the other alternatives aren't. After Curry and too a lesser extent Brown (who's awfully small himself), they're ALL big risks. It's a position with a very low hit rate, even in the first round.
Ok let me clarify Connor Barwin is riskier than Larry English, therefore I would put his value at #34 and Larry's at #23. We ALL agree that Barwin has the higher ceiling, but our philosophies differ in terms of which we weigh more; the ceiling or the floor.
I personally think Larry English is much riskier as a 3-4 OLB conversion project than Connor Barwin. He's much less risky only as a 4-3 DE. He hasn't shown any of the physical ability or skill set required to play in space. He's a nice guy at getting after the QB though.
So, with these things in mind, what do we look for? We look for a guy with a high motor, leadership characteristics, ability to transition to new positions, hip fluidity, run technique, footspeed and character. What we know about English is that he is a good to excellent 43 defensive end. He has teriffic motor, teriffic hands, teriffic feet and is decent in his hips. What we don't know about English is how well he adapts to position changes. We also know that he (and every other OLB prospect coming out) also isn't close to Barwin as an overall athlete. What we know about Barwin is that he has terrific motor, terrif foot speed and great hips. What we also know about Barwin is that he has demonstrated the ability to take on a completely new position and become an impact player at that position in one year.
It's a tag for eyeglass lenses.Wait: you highlighted "transition" for a reason. To whom are you referring?
My two coppers on the matter. While I certainly do like Larry English (note avatar) I simply feel that Connor Barwin has more value as a conversion prospect at 23 or 34. The logic for this is very simple. First, we are operating under the assumption that the transition from DE to OLB will be a gamble. It's a low percentage deal, a leading indicator as to why Belichick has shied from drafting such a prospect in the early rounds. Because of this, relative experience becomes a moot point. There are no exact Belichick 34's in college football and that includes Al Groh's scheme because two-gapping in a spread heavy league doesn't make much sense. In essence, you are drafting an athlete and plugging him into a new scheme. So, when one considers these operating perimaters, it changes the requirements for evaluation.
Consider Suggs' rookie season. He was so inept at playing out of the two point, he was lining up three yards deep out of the three point. The nature of the rush is different from stance to stance. Speaking from experience, the momentum shifts are different, the hand placements are different, the pivot points are different, everything changes. What you are looking for is an athlete that displays attributes that correlate well to the position change over a seasoned starter with a full compliment of 43 pass rush moves. In fact, having so much muscle memory engrained into your playing style can even hinder the transition.
So, with these things in mind, what do we look for? We look for a guy with a high motor, leadership characteristics, ability to transition to new positions, hip fluidity, run technique, footspeed and character. What we know about English is that he is a good to excellent 43 defensive end. He has teriffic motor, teriffic hands, teriffic feet and is decent in his hips. What we don't know about English is how well he adapts to position changes. We also know that he (and every other OLB prospect coming out) also isn't close to Barwin as an overall athlete. What we know about Barwin is that he has terrific motor, terrif foot speed and great hips. What we also know about Barwin is that he has demonstrated the ability to take on a completely new position and become an impact player at that position in one year. We also know that he understands what routes tight ends run, how they release, how they get off jams, their blocking techniques and their defensive reads. This is exactly what enabled Troy Brown to play corner at a relatively high level.
Finally, while I aknowledge that Larry English would be a solid pickup, there is no evidence that clearly shows his ability to transition between positions. This exists with Barwin and he has tremendous upside to go with it. When you also factor in that we are looking at a potential DeMarcus Ware level player with fairly minimal risk for late 1st or early 2nd round money, the pick becomes a bit of no-brainer.
Didn't the guys at the combine on the NFLN say that English weighed 270 there? Or, was it that he ran a 4.70 40-y-d?