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The Invisible Man...kins

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by MoLewisrocks, Aug 12, 2010.

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What to do about the invisible Mankins

Poll closed Sep 11, 2010.
  1. Pay the man

    31.3%
  2. Trade the man

    21.3%
  3. Play it out

    47.5%
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  1. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon?

    I just saw an article over on NFL.com by Jason LaCanfora about what he thinks teams should do with the remaining high profile holdouts. He covers Revis, of course. His recommendation is pay him. Then he covers McNeill and Jackson and Merriman in SD (pay him, trade him, play it out respectively). Then he oddly opines about Haynesworth.

    That's it. No other holdouts on the media radar, apparently. I wonder how Logan and his agent feel about the lack of attention his particular holdout seems to generate. I also think it's interesting that his agent also represents one of the Charger holdouts, Jackson, I believe.

    And even locally, opining about whether Tommy will get a deal he's already indicated he will play without this week, this month, this year, next year... And now whether Welker is really as driven as he appears because he loves the game or simply jonesing for a new deal... That crap dominates the airwaves with nary a mention of the invisible mankins.

    So, on the eve of the pre season and in the spirit of the article, what say ye Patsfans about Logan Mankins... since nobody else seems to care...



    NFL.com news: How to smooth things over with unhappy high-profile players
  2. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou Rookie

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  3. captain insano

    captain insano Rookie

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    screw mankins. the pats aparently already made him a excellent offer. pay brady
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2010
  4. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #18 Jersey

    Make a fake business apology that means nothing ("sorry you felt disrespected", "we're disappointed that you're upset", "we feel bad that you were upset about your misunderstanding of our offer", etc.), give him a reasonable one year contract, and get him in there to protect Brady's ass. The man is a rock and we have no substitute. Get his hick butt through those doors pronto.
  5. pencilneckgeek

    pencilneckgeek Rookie

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    Bite the bullet and pay him. The laws of supply and demand rule, and the Pats demand for a solid offensive line is great, at least if they have any hope of competing for a title. Kaczur is done. Connolly is soft. You can talk about building a tougher team, but it takes a lifetime for an individual player to build it, and Logan has it in spades.
  6. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #18 Jersey

    PS, this is the best thread title I've seen in a long time.
  7. RussFrancis

    RussFrancis Rookie

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    My feeling is the media doesnt report a whole lot on stories of which most people sort of know the answer. People pretty much know Mankins isnt re-signing with this team. Its more or less a fact. Some would argue. But how many high end interior offensive line contracts has this team drawn up in the last 10 years. Its not even interesting because its a non factor.

    The media also doesnt talk a whole lot about Manning's contract because we all pretty much know he's just gonna sign a whopper of a contract that will make him the highest paid player in the game. There's nothing to wonder about there besides when it will actually happen.

    Brady's contract is more interesting because he hasnt broken the bank with any contracts, so people are just wondering if he's gonna do that this time around. We dont know if its gonna be blockbuster money, or team-friendly money again. Its actually interesting. Things that make us wonder are actually interesting. But noone really cares about some anonymous Olineman who's hardly said 3 words in 5 years with this team, knowing full well he's about to sit on his butt all year more than likely.
  8. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative Rookie

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    They HAVE made an offer that is a ton of money

    And is only a few hundred thousand less than what NO paid their guy.

    If you were to take the PFW analysis and identify the difference in value for a guard who makes 10% fewer positive blocks and has 10% more negative ones than Mankins, you'd have an average guard making a couple million a year and having fairly insignificant impact on your won/loss record.

    The poll sets up a false choice. The real choices are as follows:

    1) Stick to your offer, which is more than what you value a Guard already and is one of the richest contracts ever for an interior lineman

    2) Increase your offer by a few hundred thousand to give Mankins what he's demanding, and set yourself up for this with every player you negotiate with for the next decade

    3) Trade him.
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Rookie

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    Mankins need to apologize to Bob Kraft first.

    Then approach the Pats about his contract.

    I like the way the Pats are handling the situation. Ignoring Mankins and moving on as if he was out for the season.
  10. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    You haven't voted yet, what is your opinion? I say wait it out. He was offered a great deal already and was a fool for turning it down.
  11. Buchanty

    Buchanty Rookie

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    I like this approach - I get the impression that Mankins is more about principles than about the money (unlike Revis). A simple admission that they had not intended to ignore his efforts in 2009 or slight him in any way and a minor adjustment to the contract that benefits Mankins and you could be there.

    On the other hand if it is the money - Play it out!
  12. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I don't know. Shouldn't they be honest and admit that they're lying, two faced scum and beg him to take 8 million per long term?
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2010
  13. CheeseMonkeys

    CheeseMonkeys Rookie

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    How do you know this is what's happening?
  14. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #18 Jersey

    My thoughts exactly.
  15. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #18 Jersey

    Ah, you have jumped to step 2 of my diabolical plan.

    Seriously, this crap happens all of the time in business (and sports, I guess). Someone plays hardball, some BS concessions are made, and then the two sides come together. A week later it's all forgotten.

    To those suggesting the Pats play hardball, who exactly does that benefit? Why should the Pats punish themselves by fielding an inferior O-line and risk their franchise player if they can get this thing done and bring in their stud guard with a couple minor concessions?

    Get that hick in F-boro now!
  16. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    i think we all remember how bad the D line was last year with out seymour, the O line will be the same with out Mankins, i hope they work something out
  17. DropKickFlutie

    DropKickFlutie Rookie

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    Though I'm a big fan of this franchise's current management, I am a player's person when it comes down to who I support in negotiations.

    If I were Mankins I would be a bit peeved as well. He played out the entirety of his crappy rookie deal, which should get credit given other holdouts like Revis who still has a whopping 3 years left on his deal. The deal offered by the Patriots, publicized everywhere to seem like it was a reasonable offer, was about a fifth lower than the top paid guard in the league.

    The Patriots do have a history of being tough negotiators, it's what makes them so great in a salary capped league. They even did it to Brady before, on the radio awhile ago they reported that after the first championship the Patriots wouldn't budge on a $20,000 bonus to get Brady re-signed, and Brady never forgot it, he made them re-include that on their 3rd contract together afterwards.
  18. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    LOL Thanks PJ. It just struck me as I read the LaCanfora piece that it's as if Mankins doesn't exist...

    As for your somewhat alternate option of paying him for a year, that was never gonna fly with this guy. He wants his long term deal on his terms or nothing by all indications.
  19. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    i agree he played out he's contract pay him or trade him... i looked up player salaries in 2009 i don't know if this is true but it said Mankins made less then 1.5 million last year he is a all pro LG
  20. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    It's not like the Pats to pay a player who doesn't put the team first. I put trade him just like they did with Branch
  21. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #18 Jersey

    OK, then let's sign him long term. Mankins seems to be a proud man, but I think he can be reasoned with. I hope so, for the Patriots' sake more than his.
  22. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #18 Jersey

    Everyone wants to get paid. The man his been on his rookie contract for like 14 years now.
  23. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I'm a pragmatist myself. I wouldn't pay 7 million for a guard, I don't think he makes 7 million dollars worth of difference.

    However, it's not my money. If they think so, why isn't Mankins waking up? Is he going to sit out the year?

    I think they just wait for more cuts, there have hardly been any and they already found two experienced guards. If they get lucky and find a good vet, and i think that's quite possible, they've saved a huge on a term contract and maybe they can spend that on a thin position like pass rusher, instead of one where the have 5 or 6 guys backed up and can pick up an experienced vet for nothing every week as cuts are made.

    The only reason to pay a guard exorbitant money is he makes any running back into Jim Brown, like Hannah did. Have we had an awesome running game I'm not aware of?

    For all these posters about Brady on his ass, guards aren't primary pass protectors, tackles are. Mankins is being over hyped and an above average vet is not worth 7 million dollars less, sorry.

    Why didn't Brady die with Compton, Andruzzi and Hochstein in front of him? Fact is, guys of that caliber or better will be available for zero in the next two weeks. If I were Mankins agent, I'd hustle his ass into camp before the next round of cuts, and an apology yo Mr. Kraft would be a nice gesture. I'm sure BB doesn't give a flying fart.
  24. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #18 Jersey

    You guys can probably tell that I tend to business in a somewhat emotional way. I find that when I approach people emotionally, they react in kind and we can get things done.

    I'm not a capologist. I just know that the Pats are better with Mankins than without and it's not my money, so I hope to get him in camp. Just like I hoped to get Branch in camp and get Asante re-signed. Not saying that's right, per se.
  25. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I was in favor of going to great lengths to sign Seymour a few years ago. They probably swallowed their pride on that one, but he was a top two or three in importance. Hated to let him go this time, but age, injuries and Oakland's draft position said do it.

    Branch was a traitor and pretty much held the team hostage. Screw him. It hurt us for a year, but that was all on him, he was under contract. I was all for the draft pick. Had we bowed to his ploy, we would have been one of those joke reams like the Lions, every player knowing they could hold out two weeks before the season and tear up their contract. Plus, what would we have gotten for our long term contract?

    Mankins got screwed by the league, not us. We made a very lucrative offer and he told the owner to get screwed. I hope they pick up a vet and keep 6 guards on the practice squad. I'll take the draft pick, or just let him sit a year or two. It's not even about the money as much as keeping the integrity of your dealings.
  26. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That was my position from the get go. I didn't vote initially because I didn't want to skewer the other responses.

    I don't know if their first offer was their best offer. Sometimes this team takes that seemingly awkward negotiating approach. If not I wouldn't be adverse to sweetening the pot a little via negotiation, but it takes two to negotiate and to date his side has been unwilling to (they never countered). I wouldn't want them to just give him the Evans deal because while I think he's a top 5 LG he's not the benchmark for LG's and if we're gonna pay anyone at the top of the heap I'd save that honor for the guy who likely won't force them to. It's too bad we couldn't put a highest paid nose tackle kind of spin on this...but I don't think he's the type to buy into that, either...

    The premium hereabouts goes to guys who are not just talented but tremendous core leaders. They rolled the dice a little on Seymour because they had questions not about his talent but about his durability and leadership, and that is why they talked him into the compromise incremental extension where they could give him the double digit new money AAV dollar figure he wanted while using the final year of his rookie deal to effectively keep his actual AAV over the term of the extension below that and not be stuck with him into the next decade.

    While I think a skill guy like Revis or Jackson or McNeill because he's younger and a LT can hold out indefinitely and come close to if not slightly exceed what they might have settled for, I don't see that in Logan's future. He's not a premier talent so much as a solid one who benefitted from playing on this team with this well established OL fronting this QB under this coaching staff (albeit spanning a time period in which we didn't win a ring - and I won't even get into the part he played in that happening). I don't think FO's will be lining up whenever the next league year starts for the opportunity to pay him $8M+ for another 5, 4 of which will be on the wrong side of 30. But I also don't think that would preclude tagging him for trade because if he wants to see ANY long term money after this season he's going to have to make some compromises of his own, including facilitating a trade if he is still determined not to play here.
  27. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #18 Jersey

    Very interesting and pretty reasonable perspectives on this. It's going to be interesting to see how it all plays out.
  28. BlueThunder

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    #87 Jersey

    If a trade can be made shortly, do it.... Not sure I'd want him contaminating the locker room when he decides to return.

    Pats would likely get more in a trade now than after he sits out a year.

    Solid guard, but still only a guard....Like others have said here, BB will probably pick up the starter in the next couple of weeks off some other team's cuts.
  29. Garbanza

    Garbanza Rookie

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    Pay him....have a one year of guaranteed salary/bonus (this one)...top heavy contract. Then trade the a@@hole next season - but not after you ensure that you have an adequate replacement (not named Kaczur).
  30. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    I think we all agree the Pats should pay him and they probably would have if he just came to camp. They did it with Warren a few years ago. Instead he decides not to come and is basically saying I'd rather get paid then play for the Patriots. The Patriots stance is you show you want to play for them and then you will get paid.
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