The 50 lb Gap Among the Front Seven

[SlowGettingUp]

So looking at the Pats' current roster, with Johnson's departure and Hughes' arrival, we now see a 50 lb weight gap between the "big" guys (lightest is 320 lb) and the "little" guys (heaviest is Long at 270 lbs):

Ninkovich, Rob DE
6-2
260

Flowers, Trey DL
6-2
265

Sheard, Jabaal DL
6-3
265

Long, Chris DE
6-3
270

Brown, Malcom DL
6-2
320

Hughes, John DL
6-2
320

Valentine, Vincent DT
6-3
320

Branch, Alan DL
6-6
350

I've looked at a couple of other rosters and don't see this pattern at all. Most have only a couple of "bigs" (typically a bit lighter than our four) and many also have a bunch of DT-types between 285 and 295 lb.

So is this a new "Moneyball" approach from Belichick? Penetrating DT's too expensive and so go with big guys and fast guys that can play multiple positions?

 

[oldrover]

Bill likes his fatties, at a discount.

But he ALSO likes playing around with these...

 

[Schmo]

Definitely a 34 mentality but technically running 43. More like BB is running a 2(DTs)-3(tweeners, 2 DEs and HT)-2(JC and other LB)-4 (DBs) as far as body types go.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I swear Bill wants to use Chris Long just like his dad was when he played for the Raiders.

270lb....3/4 DE/NT/DT.

 

[Brady6]

I think there is a 50lb gap between most teams interior DL and edge players.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Bill loves the hybrids......

 

[RobertWeathers]

So is this a new "Moneyball" approach from Belichick? Penetrating DT's too expensive and so go with big guys and fast guys that can play multiple positions?

The financial rationale behind his d-line preferences is an interesting thought.

Pats haven't shelled out big dough for a d-lineman since VW in 2010.

 

[Urgent]

So looking at the Pats' current roster, with Johnson's departure and Hughes' arrival...

But just before this they had a player right in the middle of this range. Not sure if this is a strategic scheme or just an opportunist reaction to a guy they liked. Not too long ago they used their top pick on a penetrating midsize DT. And this off-season signed Johnson.
Interesting observation. Thanks.

 

[Uptown]

Suspend BB!!!!! 4-game ban for utilizing multiple Swiss Army Knives on the field of play!!! Not acceptable

 

[SlowGettingUp]

I think there is a 50lb gap between most teams interior DL and edge players.

Only 20lb for Houston (and only 40lb total spread):

98 Reader, D.J. NT 6-3 335 22 R Clemson
75 Wilfork, Vince NT 6-2 325 34 13 Miami (Fla.)
95 Covington, Christian DE 6-2 305 22 2 Rice
91 Still, Devon DE 6-5 305 27 4 Penn State
93 Heath, Joel DE 6-6 300 23 R Michigan State
99 Watt, J.J. DE 6-5 295 27 6 Wisconsin

 

[RobertWeathers]

Only 20lb for Houston (and only 40lb total spread):

98 Reader, D.J. NT 6-3 335 22 R Clemson
75 Wilfork, Vince NT 6-2 325 34 13 Miami (Fla.)
95 Covington, Christian DE 6-2 305 22 2 Rice
91 Still, Devon DE 6-5 305 27 4 Penn State
93 Heath, Joel DE 6-6 300 23 R Michigan State
99 Watt, J.J. DE 6-5 295 27 6 Wisconsin

Which is more in line with what RAC had here in the traditional DLs in the 3-4.

 

[jah]

Only 20lb for Houston (and only 40lb total spread):

98 Reader, D.J. NT 6-3 335 22 R Clemson
75 Wilfork, Vince NT 6-2 325 34 13 Miami (Fla.)
95 Covington, Christian DE 6-2 305 22 2 Rice
91 Still, Devon DE 6-5 305 27 4 Penn State
93 Heath, Joel DE 6-6 300 23 R Michigan State
99 Watt, J.J. DE 6-5 295 27 6 Wisconsin

The only edge player listed there is Watt and that's because he's so good he can play any position. Those are 3-4 linemen being compared with each other. The comparison should be with guys like Mercilus.

 

[patfanken]

I originally thought that the reason BB had so many bigs was he was ahead of the curve in adjusting to the new rule that banned chop blocks all across the LOS (finally) I had thought that without being able to chop the big guys making bull rushes, guys like Branch and Brown would be able to push the LOS back into the QB's face, especially when the QB is taking 3 and 5 step drops. I didn't see it as creating more sacks, as creating more consistent pressure up the middle. Just another example of BB seeing the impact of new rules that were never the intent of the makers.

HOWEVER - I haven't seen much of this from the D during the first 3 games of the season.

BTW- does it ever strike anyone as being really odd that the the guy who knows the rule book better than anyone else has never been invited to be on the competition committee? Are they THAT afraid of him.

 

[The Gr8est]

Only 20lb for Houston (and only 40lb total spread):

98 Reader, D.J. NT 6-3 335 22 R Clemson
75 Wilfork, Vince NT 6-2 325 34 13 Miami (Fla.)
95 Covington, Christian DE 6-2 305 22 2 Rice
91 Still, Devon DE 6-5 305 27 4 Penn State
93 Heath, Joel DE 6-6 300 23 R Michigan State
99 Watt, J.J. DE 6-5 295 27 6 Wisconsin

Vince Wilfork 325....

 

[Ring 6]

Definitely a 34 mentality but technically running 43. More like BB is running a 2(DTs)-3(tweeners, 2 DEs and HT)-2(JC and other LB)-4 (DBs) as far as body types go.

Actually since nickel is the base it's 2 huge DTs and 4 guys from 250-270 and then on passing downs 1 and 5 until they take one away for the 6th db

 

[Brady6]

Only 20lb for Houston (and only 40lb total spread):

98 Reader, D.J. NT 6-3 335 22 R Clemson
75 Wilfork, Vince NT 6-2 325 34 13 Miami (Fla.)
95 Covington, Christian DE 6-2 305 22 2 Rice
91 Still, Devon DE 6-5 305 27 4 Penn State
93 Heath, Joel DE 6-6 300 23 R Michigan State
99 Watt, J.J. DE 6-5 295 27 6 Wisconsin

With the exception of Watt who they move around those players are all interior DL. Houston runs a true 3-4 defense with a 0tech NT and 2 5tech DEs. Our scheme is 3-4 under/4-3 over and 3-4 over/4-3 under.

3-4 under/4-3 over

7/9tech LED - Sheard
3tech DT - Brown
1tech NT - Valentine
5tech RED - Long
WILL - McClellin
--
SAM - Hightower
MIKE - Collins



3-4 over/4-3 under

SAM - Hightower
5tech LED - Sheard
1tech NT - Brown
3tech DT - Valentine
7/9 RED - Long
--
MIKE - Collins
WILL - McClellin

Both sides are interchangeable and allows us to change looks without changing personnel or alignments. If we had a true 3tech he would be to undersized to play NT.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Vince Wilfork 325....

That was his weight his 1st year with NE...maybe.

I think he was around 340-350

 

[RobertWeathers]

I originally thought that the reason BB had so many bigs was he was ahead of the curve in adjusting to the new rule that banned chop blocks all across the LOS (finally) I had thought that without being able to chop the big guys making bull rushes, guys like Branch and Brown would be able to push the LOS back into the QB's face, especially when the QB is taking 3 and 5 step drops. I didn't see it as creating more sacks, as creating more consistent pressure up the middle. Just another example of BB seeing the impact of new rules that were never the intent of the makers.

HOWEVER - I haven't seen much of this from the D during the first 3 games of the season.

BTW- does it ever strike anyone as being really odd that the the guy who knows the rule book better than anyone else has never been invited to be on the competition committee? Are they THAT afraid of him.

It is my understanding that Bill has been nominated/asked several times and has politely declined for reasons specific to not getting involved in league politics and wanting t focus on making the NEP the best team possible.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The financial rationale behind his d-line preferences is an interesting thought.

Pats haven't shelled out big dough for a d-lineman since VW in 2010.

I don't know about just using his initials, sorta confusing. Most VWs take up less space.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Only 20lb for Houston (and only 40lb total spread):

98 Reader, D.J. NT 6-3 335 22 R Clemson
75 Wilfork, Vince NT 6-2 325 34 13 Miami (Fla.)
95 Covington, Christian DE 6-2 305 22 2 Rice
91 Still, Devon DE 6-5 305 27 4 Penn State
93 Heath, Joel DE 6-6 300 23 R Michigan State
99 Watt, J.J. DE 6-5 295 27 6 Wisconsin

With 3-4 defenses, the edge players are generally the OLBs, rather than the DEs. Also, 325 is what Wilfork weighed back in 2004. No way he's within 40 pounds of that now.