DRAFT Sidy Sow - Round 4 - 117th overall

[Ring 6]

No, not back to the bench this year. Never said that.

He won't be resigned because the plan is to have young players step in at his position, while the money becomes available for Tee Higgins, Jeudy, or Brandon Aiyuk.

You would be against that?

Do you seriously think that teams draft players on day 3 and hand them
a starters job next year?
They are a full year away from that even being a consideration.
The world doesn’t revolve around WRs and finding the most expensive ones.

 

[Family]

Do you seriously think that teams draft players on day 3 and hand them
a starters job next year?
They are a full year away from that even being a consideration.

We are talking about a year away. And there are three draft choices looking for his job.

 

[DaBruinz]

Because our Interior OL is seemingly in good shape with Onwenu/Andrews/Strange but our OTs may as well been turnstiles last year. They made a few FA signings that don’t appear to be big upgrades. Even Brown is a question mark after last year….

So, strange that they prioritized and drafted 3 players at an area of relative strength, and no players at an area that seemingly needed an upgrade.

I don’t disagree that we need to replace Andrews/Murray/Ferentz. But, like many, thought Tackle was a top “need”.

You're ignoring the fact that most of the issues on the O-line in 2022 were due to Three things:
- Poor Coaching by Patricia and Judge.
- the failed attempt to implement Shanahan style Outside Zone runs
- The injuries at RT. Going back to 2000, I couldn't find a team that had used 4 different Tackles at one position, let alone 5 and have a winning record. None made the play-offs either. And that's what happened at RT last year.

You're claiming that the IOL is a relative strength while ignoring the following:
- Andrews is 31 this year. He missed 3 games last season and missed the entre 2019 season. He also missed 4 games in 2020.
- James Ferentz is a JAG and 34 himself. The Pats have been trying to upgrade him for a couple of years.
- The Pats clearly aren't sold on Russey or Hines being the next starting center behind D. Andrews
- The Pats have regularly tried to add players a year ahead of when they were needed.
- Onwenu is a UFA after the season. We have no idea if the Patriots have reached out to him about an extension or not. He could have the stance that he wants to see how he does this year before committing long term. Or he may hate it in New England and want to go somewhere else. The Pats have rarely stood in the way of a player moving on. People forget that it's not always about the money.

I felt tackle was a need as well. I thought Orlando Brown would be a great fit, especially since BB coached Brown's father and Brown's father highly respected BB. We have no idea if the Pats pursued him or not. It was clear that the Patriots didn't like the OTs behind the top 2-3. In 23 years, Belichick had never let NEED force him to overdraft a player from his draft board. (Note: I acknowledge that Pats have over-drafted people based on the "Draftniks" opinions)

The Pats had Anderson, Brown, Reiff, McDermott, Cajuste, and Steuber for OTs prior to the draft. They also have Strange, who played some LT in college and has the same measurements as Matt Light, but is more athletic.

If the Patriots didn't feel that any of the OTs that were left at the start of the 4th round would be better than what was currently on the team, why would anyone want them to add those guys?

 

[Ollie]

Do you seriously think that teams draft players on day 3 and hand them
a starters job next year?
They are a full year away from that even being a consideration.
The world doesn’t revolve around WRs and finding the most expensive ones.

Whilst i don't think any day 3 picks are drafted with the belief they will start it obviously happens with our own Jack Jones and Onwenu contributing pretty much immediately.

 

[DaBruinz]

We are talking about a year away. And there are three draft choices looking for his job.

No. There aren't 3 Draft picks looking for Onwenu's job. They're looking for the jobs of Ferentz, Russey, Murray and Hines.

 

[DaBruinz]

Franchising is not the same as paying, and the rest is complete speculation. No evidence. (I asked AI)

Yeah. Giving the guy 20M to play for the team another year isn't paying him. *SMH*

I never said "wouldn't be able to." I said they won't.

You implied they wouldn't be able to when you said that they'd have to focus on a WR instead.

Like I said, a lot can happen in a year. The Bengals still need to pay Burrow, and the 49ers might need a QB. If not these three WR's, someone else will come available.

You've said a lot of things that are pure speculation. I just pointed out to you that the Bengals will EASILY be able to pay both Burrow and Higgins and you flat out ignored. I also pointed out that Aiyuk won't be a free agent until 2024 and you ignored that as well.

What speculation? Do you think 4th round draft choices were meant to replace the likes of Ferentz and Murray? They're hoping they hit with one or two to rebuild the interior line. That's what 2 decades of players moves by this team says about that.

Yes. I do specifically think that Sow and Andrews were brought in to be upgrades over Ferentz, Russey, Hines and Murray. That's what 2 decades of player moves says. Not this "hope" crap your espousing. IF they develop to the point of pushing for a starting job, that's even better.

 

[Ring 6]

We are talking about a year away. And there are three draft choices looking for his job.

And perhaps they can beat him out but what you are implying is since they drafted a G in the 4th round, a starter is history. That’s not how it works.

 

[Ring 6]

Whilst i don't think any day 3 picks are drafted with the belief they will start it obviously happens with our own Jack Jones and Onwenu contributing pretty much immediately.

Of course they can. That wasn’t the argument. The argument was drafting a G in the 4th round means we’ve decided to get rid of the starter after another year

 

[Family]

You implied they wouldn't be able to when you said that they'd have to focus on a WR instead.

I never implied that. I said they would spend the money elsewhere. They are not the Rams or Saints. They stay within a budget. Let'd assume we all know that the cap can be manipulated to afford anything at that moment.

Yes. I do specifically think that Sow and Andrews were brought in to be upgrades over Ferentz, Russey, Hines and Murray. That's what 2 decades of player moves says. Not this "hope" crap your espousing. IF they develop to the point of pushing for a starting job, that's even better.

Why would they draft fourth round interior lineman to be upgrades over those jags (we don't know Hines.)

Look at our previous starting guards: Mason (4th round), Thuney (3rd), even Onwenu (6th). Each one competed strongly for a starting position from day one. These rounds are where the team looks for starters. The rookies are expected to step in and compete, not be looking for a spot over practice squad players who are forced to play only after injuries. They even made sure and drafted four of them.

There were only a few centers and guards taken in the 2023 draft before ours, and last year we took one of the first OG. This is a ton of capital two drafts in a row for the interior lineman position. I have no idea what more than can do to bring in young talent at this position.

 

[State]

I believe we need a separate post just on OTs. Last year may have been an issue of the poor or even non coaching they received. This is likely true.

But I want to focus on LT and Trent Brown. He did a great job for us at this spot…in 2018, the last year we won a SB. It’s becoming apparent he has lost some of his athletic mojo.

Isn’t it time to move him to RT? But who can play LT? Reiff and Anderson and maybe the rookie Sow. And Reiff is also strictly a RT at 35 years of age during the season.

So was there a LT we could have drafted but didn’t? Or do they see something in Sow who played LT in 2018?

Does anyone else think resigning Wynn after June 1 when McCourty’s salary is taken off our cap is a realistic possibility?

 

[Zuma]

I believe we need a separate post just on OTs. Last year may have been an issue of the poor or even non coaching they received. This is likely true.

But I want to focus on LT and Trent Brown. He did a great job for us at this spot…in 2018, the last year we won a SB. It’s becoming apparent he has lost some of his athletic mojo.

Isn’t it time to move him to RT? But who can play LT? Reiff and Anderson and maybe the rookie Sow. And Reiff is also strictly a RT at 35 years of age during the season.

So was there a LT we could have drafted but didn’t? Or do they see something in Sow who played LT in 2018?

Does anyone else think resigning Wynn after June 1 when McCourty’s salary is taken off our cap is a realistic possibility?

"Thread"...yeah I agree. It was a concern in 2022 and it's a concern now...probably the biggest issue IMO.

 

[Brotherblues]

No. There aren't 3 Draft picks looking for Onwenu's job. They're looking for the jobs of Ferentz, Russey, Murray and Hines.

Absolutely everyone is being groomed for and/or is looking for a starter's job. Except Ferentz but that's another conversation...

 

[Brotherblues]

Anyhow not sure what the big argument is. If one of the late round OGs they've drafted the last couple years is deemed ready to start at RG in 2024, then hurray, we hit the lotto, that's awesome and gives the team more financial freedom. If not, then the option to pay Onwenu is still there.

No need to hack each other to bits over this.

 

[State]

"Thread"...yeah I agree. It was a concern in 2022 and it's a concern now...probably the biggest issue IMO.

Yes, TY. THREAD ON OTs NEEDED

 

[Family]

What you claim to be "evidence" is pure ridiculous speculation on your part and ignores 2 decades of actual player moves by this team. Moves that I've pointed out as actual facts.

No. There aren't 3 Draft picks looking for Onwenu's job. They're looking for the jobs of Ferentz, Russey, Murray and Hines.

And perhaps they can beat him out but what you are implying is since they drafted a G in the 4th round, a starter is history. That’s not how it works.

I never said the starter was history. I said the way they drafted says their plan is to replace him. I've also said anything can happen over a year.

Here is one decade of facts illustrating what drafting a guard in the 3rd/4th round has meant to the team. Guards/centers are generally drafted later than most other positions, so it is amateur analysis to compare a 4th round guard with a 4th round OT.

A list of every guard/center drafted by the Patriots in the last ten years from 4th round or better.

Byron Stork 4th - instant starter
Tre jackson 4th - instant starter
Shaq Mason 4th - instant starter
Joe Thuney 3rd - instant starter
Froholdt (4th) - bust
Strange - 1st - instant starter

What evidence is there that one of the first few guards/centers taken will only be competing against the likes of Ferrentz/Murray/Russey for a backup job, especially when they sat Onwenu for a previously career backup just one season removed? It's laughable.

 

[captain stone]

Thing is, it's hard to draft for immediate need in the 4th round and beyond. At that point, the odds of a player working out are probably less than 50/50, and even less that they step in immediately year one. So once you get to that territory, you're drafting as much (if not more) for 2024 as you are for 2023. And yes, OT is going to be a need then too, but if your board has the remaining interior OL rated higher than the remaining OT, and both are needs for 2024, that's likely the direction you're going to go. Year 1 need is really only a major factor in the top 50-60 picks each year, realistically.

So, you stop even trying to find an OT…?

And if Notgoat’s & Al Groh’s kid’s board has Jake The hopefully not Newest Fake & Fat Tony Mafia ranked ahead of Dawand Jones, Carter Warren, Warren McClendon & Jaelyn Duncan - not to mention C/Gs Jon Gaines, Olu Olu & Jarrett Patterson, then their board is officially ****ed Up…which I Already knew.

 

[Kasmir]

Froholdt (4th) - bust

Froholdt was not a bust; he was always a developmental prospect but he got injured and lost his position in the roster shuffle.

He's now the starting center for the Cardinals.

Arizona Cardinals 2023 NFL Depth Chart - ESPN

Check out the 2023 Arizona Cardinals NFL depth chart on ESPN. Includes full details on starters, second, third and fourth tier Cardinals players.

www.espn.com

 

[Sicilian]

So, you stop even trying to find an OT…?

And if Notgoat’s & Al Groh’s kid’s board has Jake The hopefully not Newest Fake & Fat Tony Mafia ranked ahead of Dawand Jones, Carter Warren, Warren McClendon & Jaelyn Duncan, then their board is officially ****ed Up…which I Already knew.

I'm just going to say yes, because you and I have such fundamentally different views on the draft that actually trying to explain mine is not worth the electrons it would take to post it. Your outrage is your thing, I get it, but your visceral reaction to what is a very fluid part of team building isn't healthy. Please take care of yourself.

 

[Family]

Froholdt was not a bust; he was always a developmental prospect but he got injured and lots his position in the roster shuffle.

He's now the starting center for the Cardinals.

Arizona Cardinals 2023 NFL Depth Chart - ESPN

Check out the 2023 Arizona Cardinals NFL depth chart on ESPN. Includes full details on starters, second, third and fourth tier Cardinals players.

www.espn.com

I didn't know that.

It makes my position even stronger.

So every guard/center they have drafted over ten years started at least one season, with most of them the first year. And you can add 6th rounders Karras and Onwenu.

How obvious can this be?

 

[captain stone]

Froholdt was not a bust; he was always a developmental prospect but he got injured and lost his position in the roster shuffle.

He's now the starting center for the Cardinals.

Arizona Cardinals 2023 NFL Depth Chart - ESPN

Check out the 2023 Arizona Cardinals NFL depth chart on ESPN. Includes full details on starters, second, third and fourth tier Cardinals players.

www.espn.com

Frodo was drafted WAAAY too damn early… As in, by THREE rounds too early.