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The #1 draft need is likely to be DL

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mgteich, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    WILFORK will be extended. We've added JONES. We have FRANCIS to replace Brace going forward.

    IN THEIR CONTRACT YEAR IN 2013
    Ninkovich
    Cunningham
    Deaderick
    Love

    MAYBE Bequette or Forston will develop to be a major contributor. I think that we need to add a player or two as we look forward to 2014 (as a draft should).

    Don't get wrong. I'm fine with extending all four. However, I think that the draft can be used to find potential upgrades.

    As of now, I would be fine with two front seven players and a safety for our draft. Corners, wide receivers and OT will need to be addressed by re-signs or in free agency (or a trade). I suspect that at least one of our picks will be traded down, since we are OK with a year of development for these players.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  2. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    My preference would be DT. A 3-tech who can get upfield and rush the passer. Not a 330lb roadblock who would have trouble catching me. The only problem might be that is likely to be a ton of DL drafted in the 1st this year. 10-12 again. We won't be getting the pick of the litter. Probably gone; Lotulelei, Hankins, Jenkins, Richardson. Available. Jesse Williams - Bama. He's more of a NG than 3-tech. S. Williams-UNC. Might be able to do it. He's gonna be 25 in his rookie year though. Kawann Short-Purdue Not sure he's explosive enough to do what I'm looking for. Shariff Floyd - Florida. 3rd year junior who is probably coming out. May not help in 2013. But, could be the guy with experience.

    If we're playing this flex 4-3 with a standup DE. I'd like to see Hightower at that spot. That would severely lessen the need for a LDE. But, would place a greater need on a 4-3 weakside olb who can play in space.
  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've been saying this for months:

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/959894-my-blueprint-pats.html

    I want a stud DE to pair with Chandler Jones, along with depth at DT. I'm fine with Ninkovich/Cunningham/Scott/Francis/Bequette, but none appears to be the long term "answer" at LDE way Jones is the answer at RDE. My current list:

    - Day 1: Ziggy Ansah. Maybe Sam Montgomery if he falls.
    - Day 2: Trent Murphy if he declares. Maybe Tank Carradine, but he won't be avaialble for another year because of his ACL injury.
    - Day 3: Margus Hunt. Devin Taylor's inconsistency and motor scare me.

    A stud interior lineman would be nice. If Johnathan Hankins fell he would be hard to resist. Brandon Williams is my day 2/3 sleeper pick.
  4. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    The good news is this is probably the deepest area of the draft. Tons of talent available.

    DT Lotulelei Utah (top 10)
    DT Hankins OSU (1st Round)
    DT Jenkins Georgia (1st Round)
    DT Richardson MIzzu (1st Round)
    DT Floyd Florida (1st Round)

    DE Werner FSU (top 10)
    DE Montgomery LSU (1st Round)
    DE Mingo LSU (1st Round)
    DE Okafor Texas (Late 1st/Early 2nd)
    DE Jordan Oregon (Late 1st/Early 2nd)
    DE Ansah BYU (Late 1st/Early 2nd)

    Plus lots of 2nd round graded talent

    DT Williams Alabama
    DT Williams UNC
    DT Short Purdue

    DE Lemonier Auburn
    DE Gayle Virginia
    DE Simon OSU
    DE Taylor of SC

    Lots of talent should be on the board when BB is on the clock. I like Floyd and Jordan the best.
  5. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sylvester Williams is definitely interesting. His age may cause him to slip a bit. Another guy to consider is Brandon Williams from Missouri Southern. He's 6'2" 328# but had 8.5 sacks and 16.5 TFL as the NT this year. He supposedly runs a sub-5.0 40 and is very athletic, but the question is whether he's just beaten up on inferior competition. He's gotten a Senior Bowl invite, so it will be interesting to see how he handles himself against the big boys.

    Bennie Logan may come out and could be an option in addition to Sharrif Floyd. Guys like Datone Jones and Margus Hunt play both inside and out and could be worth taking a look at.

    I've discussed moving Hightower up on the line, both at LDE and inside. If Kyle Van Noy declares, he's an option to consider in the 2nd round, especially if the Pats trade back and acquire more day 2 picks. He's probably a top 50 pick but not a 1st round pick. He could be very effective in a rotation with Mayo, Hightower and Spikes, allowing Hightower to move up on the line at times.
  6. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I was probably the first person on the board to hype Dion Jordan, and he is one of the most intriguing players in the draft. If he is available in the late 1st he has to get serious consideration because of his unique skill set, but it's not clear that he has the strength and edge setting ability to be a line player for BB. But he's certainly on any short list.

    I do think that you could use Jordan and Hightower together quite effectively. Hightower has great strength, Jordan more quickness and coverage ability. You could put one at LDE and the other at SAM, depending on the situation, without changing personnel.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  7. Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

    Merril Hoge's Tie Knot Rookie

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    This isn't anything new, and I'm sure a lot of people will agree with you.
  8. stelfans

    stelfans Rookie

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    I think the bigger need is a DT able to rush the qb and Im still on the Short bandwagon. He has some flaws but after Sheldon Richardson he is the guy i like the most.
  9. Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

    Merril Hoge's Tie Knot Rookie

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    I want a grizzly that can play opposite the guard in the base and nickel defenses, but also play opposite the tackle when they go to a 3-4. I'm not sure any on the top guys can do that. Maybe Richardson or Hankins, but neither are ideal. There is no Brockers in this draft, and I'm struggling to find an Akiem Hicks. Somebody on twitter said Deandre Coleman is thinking about declaring. He plays 5-tech in Cal's 3-4. I haven't seen him play.

    The guys I do like are:
    Kapron Lewis-Moore
    William Campbell
    Quinton Dial
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    All intriguing. That was part of my interest in Ra'shede Hageman, but he's not coming out this year.
  11. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I see things a little bit differently, I see Hightower moving to MLB due to Spikes numerous injuries and his complete lack of anything resembling speed.

    I have Chase Thomas plugged into my mock at #64 to take over for Hightower next season at OLB.

    Which means Jordan becomes a 3rd down pass rush specialist op;posite Jones until he starts benefitting from a pro weight room.
  12. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, the analysis is not new.

    I was just emphasizing that our needs at WR, CB and OT are better met in free agency. We need front seven help and it will be there when we draft in the first two rounds.

    While surprises might happen, this allows us to focus on the front seven needs and perhaps draft a safety.

    As an aside, I have never seen our off-season needs and options be as clear as they are this year. I think speaks well about just how well Belichick has built this team.

    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  13. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Can you elaborate a bit of the off season needs and options?
  14. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Spikes is a free agent after next year too. We've already got a lot of money tied up in 2014 contracts. You know Belichick will keep McCourty over him. Plus, I see him wanting to play somewhere in Florida. I've got DT and OLB as my two biggest needs this year. Maybe, K.Short or S. Williams in Round 1 and Arthur Brown or K. Greene in Round 2. Get a WR in the 3RD.

    I'd love to get a bookend opposite Chandler Jones, but we do have some depth at that position and youth. Maybe, someone emerges like; Francis, Bequette or Cunningham. Also, need a safety opposite McCourty. Hope Tavon Wilson can improve. If not, DE and Safety are my two targets in the 2014 draft.
  15. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Every year the focus should be on DL, you can never have too much quality up front. The Patriots are very thin at DT, in Love or Wilfork gets dinged up it is a huge dropoff.
  16. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Absolutely. The most important part of the team after QB, where we have fortunately been blessed, and where you can never have enough depth and enough of a pipeline. OL is #3.
  17. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    The same was said the last two years and we passed on a bevy of DT's. TBH, I think Devon Still and Jerel Worthy were better than any DT in this class not named Star, Hankins and Williams.
  18. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    We seemed to have managed pretty well without depth at this supposedly crucial position the last couple of years. Sorry, but DT is one of the least important positions on the team in my view. If you can't get an elite player like Wilfork, just leave it to the 7th round or UDFA.
  19. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Jesse Williams, Sylvester Williams, or Brandon Williams? Or all 3? I like all of them, depending on where in the draft they go.
  20. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    Jesse. Potentially elite as a run stopper.
  21. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    We lost the 2010 playoff game partly because our DL got depleted as the season wore on. Does that playoff loss count?
  22. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    Clearly BB agrees with you. Which is why he drafted two DL's in the subsequent draft..In the seventh round.
  23. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Maybe, just maybe, less than stellar play from out defensive line is the reason we haven't won a Super Bowl since 2004. We've had four 500pt seasons in the last 6 years. The greatest offensive show in the history of the NFL. Yet, no rings. Yeah, who needs DL.
  24. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    After drafting DL in the 1st round in 2001, 2003 and 2004 we didn't go back to the position again until 2012. Time to reload. At least twice.
  25. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You don't need to tell me. I've been onto Jesse Williams longer than anyone.

    From Russ Lande at the NFP:

    What NFP is hearing - Draft Rumblings | National Football Post
  26. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Umm.. Francis and Brace play different positions entirely. Francis is a Rush End and Brace, is well, a DT when he actually can get on the field, which isn't often.

    You also seem to be forgetting Pryor, who is under contract for another year due to his spending the entire year on the PUP. Pryor is the one who Francis will probably be replacing in the long run.

    Forston is a NT/DT type player. It will be interesting to see if he can push Brace, Love and Deaderick for playing time.

    Wilfork has 2 more years on his contract. He'll probably be extended after the 2013 season when teams know how much more the new TV contracts are actually providing.

    OC and RG need to be addressed as does OT. Wendell is below average and Vollmer is about to be a UFA.

    There are a lot of moving parts and we're just going to have to wait and see how things pan out.
  27. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    Tell BB that. He's the one that thinks the position can be filled with late round and UDFA types. His thinking might change this year, but it suggests he see's the position in the same way I do. I.e. Not all that valuable.
  28. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The fact that he spent 1st round picks on the DL in 2001, 2003, 2004 and 2012, and 2nd round picks in 2004 and 2009 suggests that BB's assessment might be slightly different than yours. I don't think you can make any inference about BB's valuation of the DL position at all.

    Through 2008 we had 3 1st round starting DLs and one of the best front lines in the NFL. Seymour was traded because of an impending cap crunch and other factors, and then injuries caught up with Warren, along with a schematic shift. I don't think that it's been a lack of value in the DL position that's necessarily affected BB. In 2011 I think he clearly made an assessment of the available linemen, and found them wanting, but that doesn't mean that he didn't value the position. In 2012 we invest 2 1st round picks - with 2 trade ups - on line players.

    We'll see what happens in the next few years. Based on the past 7 years, you could say that BB doesn't value QBs WRs, or RBs much either. I guess we'll just keep using 1st and 2nd round picks on DBs ad infinitum - maybe with an occasional LB or TE thrown in - as the only positions BB apparently values.
  29. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    2012 doesn't count because that's a 4-3 DE and we're talking DT's. As for the earlier three first round picks, I specifically said it was worth doing for an elite player and Seymour and Wilfork obviously qualify.

    Seriously!


    He may well draft a DT. I hope not because like you with WR's, I think it's a waste of a pick, particularly this year as I don't rate what is likely available.

    One other thing to bear in mind. Is there any value in a first round DT? Finding one who can play all three downs effectively isn't going to be easy. Who plays on a passing down, Sylvester Williams or Jermaine Cunningham? Who plays on a running down, Sheldon Richardson or Kyle Love?

    If Louis Nix is there when we pick next year, sign me up immediately. If Cooper and Ansah are gone, then I'd consider Jesse Williams along with a couple of others (Tavon Austin, Terrance Williams, Robert Woods). But I don't see the value in wasting a pick on Sylvester Williams or Kawaan Short who I just don't see as anything more than situational players in the Patriots system.
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  30. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The thread was about DL. I didn't understand that to be restricted to DT. Maybe we're just talking about different things. At any rate, I hadn't understood your use of the term "DL" to imply DT only.

    I hope we do consider drafting a DT, as I think we need depth there. As with all positions, I look for relative value:

    - Louis Nix isn't coming out, but we're agreed he's the biggest impact player and well worth a 1st
    - Sheldon Richardson is a potential impact player but has too man schematic issues and question marks - I think we also agree on this
    - Johnathan Hankins is someone I consider an impact player worth a 1st if he falls
    - Jesse Williams is a steal in the 2nd, and worth a trade back if other options are gone
    - Sylvester Williams is solid late 2nd/3rd value, depending on who else is on the board
    - Brandon Williams warrants further evaluation, and is probably my top day 3 option, but I need to see more

    That's pretty much my DT list for 2013. It's not a given that any of those options works out, but depending on how things fall I think it's a position of some importance. I've consistently said that (barring a Nix or Hankins falling in our laps) I want a LDE more this year.

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