Terrified of our WR situation

[Mack Herron]

It's about getting away from Welker's limitations. O'Brien took Welker's role way further than JM ever intended when he brought him in. That position was a secondary check down from Moss and Stallworth in 2007. Now it's going to be a check down from Gronk and AH moving forward with Amendola.

Welker was great but an offense can only go so far because no matter what when someone is 5'8 185lbs there are limits to what he can do. And that showed against Seattle, Arizona, Baltimore and SF all of whom were bigger and more physical defenses. That isn't Welker's fault the fact is the expectations of him were much to high all considered.

Did you make any of these statements while Welker was still a Patriot? Welker is headed to the HOF as the best slot receiver ever to play the game. There is simply no other with fewer limitations.

 

[flasox27]

WW was a great regular season receiver. He didn't make the catches when it counted. Slot receivers without rings don't make the HOF. As a matter of fact in a big game I would rather have Troy Brown in the slot rather than WW

 

[PatsSweFan]

Vereen will probably be 1st on depth chart as a WR next year when amendola is on IR :bricks:
Lets go out and give a slot corner who can´t play outside big money and hold money tight when it comes to productive WRs :bricks:

 

[supafly]

Welker is headed to the HOF as the best slot receiver ever to play the game.

I loved having Welker here, but he certainly isn't getting in the HOF based on what he's done so far. There may be another couple/few yrs for him to make his case.

It would seem that most GMs and coaches feel that he is a product of certain things that may have helped him, and that the slot position is not worthy of anything close to big money, and Bill Belichick is apparently one of those guys.

That doesn't mean that I am not impressed with Welker's ability and durability while he was here.

 

[Mack Herron]

WW was a great regular season receiver. He didn't make the catches when it counted. Slot receivers without rings don't make the HOF. As a matter of fact in a big game I would rather have Troy Brown in the slot rather than WW

In half as many playoff games Welker has 69 receptions to Brown's 49, as many yards, as many first downs, and twice as many TDs as Troy Brown.

 

[supafly]

Vereen will probably be 1st on depth chart as a WR next year when amendola is on IR :bricks:
Lets go out and give a slot corner who can´t play outside big money and hold money tight when it comes to productive WRs :bricks:

If you want to talk injury concerns, look no further to Talib who has had the exact same two injuries that have prevented him from finishing the last 3 seasons in a row.

There haven't been any injuries that Amendola has had that have made anyone feel as though he's falling under the nagging/chronic conditions, most of all Belichick.

You may not agree with the decision, but let's not make it out to be like there can't be a reasonable debate either. One is 5-6 yrs younger, has more size, better speed, better hands, and has experience playing in McDaniels' system. Welker showed some promise before coming to NE, but I think that Amendola has shown just as much as Welker did pre-NE Patriots era. If we weren't going to offer Welker big money to stay, then who would you rather have had besides Amendola?

We saw a rookie take over the role enough in 2009 that most here were thinking he could make 100 catches the next year. He had no experience in the system prior, nor did he even have experience at the position of WR either. Welker shouldn't be overlooked as being a great player here for many reasons, but there isn't any reason to believe that someone else cannot come in and contribute a lot too. His ability to stay healthy will be key, along with his pre-snap defensive reads and knowledge of the defense. Those were the areas that Welker excelled at.

 

[Brady6]

Holy cow, the continuing total diminishment of Welker on this board is astounding. It's reached ridiculous proportions. Welker is one of the best receivers in the league. You actually put him into a sentence with Stallworth and said the coach upgraded him beyond that. There's a reason the Patriots spent a 2nd on him. Welker EXCEEDED all expectations by producing more than anyone could have ever dreamed he could produce. The guy was a 1st down production machine unlike any other player in the NFL. Better than any player in the NFL at first downs. The fact that Gronk was hurt and that there were no other reliable WR targets is somehow held against him.

Your reading and comprehension skills are limited huh? I clearly said that the role of Welker and expectations exceeded the original that was in place when acquired in 2007. Your entire post just sounds like a ranting man person who doesn't even read before he writes. Nobody is holding anything against Wes I have nothing but love and admiration for him.

 

[Brady6]

Did you make any of these statements while Welker was still a Patriot? Welker is headed to the HOF as the best slot receiver ever to play the game. There is simply no other with fewer limitations.

1. He isn't going to the HOF that's ridiculous to even think a person with less than 40 career touchdowns and no titles is heading to the HOF.
2. The limitations are that he is a slot receiver who is 5'8 185lbs if you don't think that limits things Welker can do on the field you're really being blinded by your love for Welker.

Wes Welker was a great player. But he had physical limitations and is not a HOF.

 

[Big Bucks]

Personally I have high hopes for Ebert stepping up in training camp and pre season to solidify a roster spot.

I also believe that people are putting to much emphasis on 'WR', when in reality Gronkowski and Hernandez could be/are top 20 'WRs'.

 

[Mack Herron]

I loved having Welker here, but he certainly isn't getting in the HOF based on what he's done so far. There may be another couple/few yrs for him to make his case.

It would seem that most GMs and coaches feel that he is a product of certain things that may have helped him, and that the slot position is not worthy of anything close to big money, and Bill Belichick is apparently one of those guys.

That doesn't mean that I am not impressed with Welker's ability and durability while he was here.

I bow to your certainty and your close relationships with GMs and coaches. But you are not addressing the argument. The assertion that the Patriots need to "get away from Welker's limitations" is ridiculous. BB wanted Welker and offered him $10 million. Had Welker accepted Belichick's offer, he would still be a Patriot. Welker wanted to see what his value was on the market and BB went to plan B. So for BB, Welker was plan A and Amendola was plan B. Amendola is a promising player, but I'd be surprised if any of your coach and GM friends think Amendola will produce at the level Welker has.

 

[ausbacker]

Vereen will probably be 1st on depth chart as a WR next year when amendola is on IR :bricks:
Lets go out and give a slot corner who can´t play outside big money and hold money tight when it comes to productive WRs :bricks:

Vereen is an interesting proposition in the passing game. I wonder if we'll see more screens and dump offs to the RB's in 2013?

 

[upstater1]

Your reading and comprehension skills are limited huh? I clearly said that the role of Welker and expectations exceeded the original that was in place when acquired in 2007. Your entire post just sounds like a ranting man person who doesn't even read before he writes. Nobody is holding anything against Wes I have nothing but love and admiration for him.

Apparently no one can read except you because several other posters had the same reaction to your post that I did.

Frankly, this whole idea that Welker was featured to any detrimental effect or as others have said that Brady relied too much on Wes is batty, to say the least. Who else was Brady going to throw to? Gronk was hurt both postseasons? Branch and Lloyd were unreliable. There literally was no one else. Welker was the focus of the defense, and he still produced. You're going to be shocked at how much the Patriots miss him.

 

[Brady6]

Apparently no one can read except you because several other posters had the same reaction to your post that I did.

Frankly, this whole idea that Welker was featured to any detrimental effect or as others have said that Brady relied too much on Wes is batty, to say the least. Who else was Brady going to throw to? Gronk was hurt both postseasons? Branch and Lloyd were unreliable. There literally was no one else. Welker was the focus of the defense, and he still produced. You're going to be shocked at how much the Patriots miss him.

I didn't say that though I said that was not the intention when originally signing Welker and that the offense and Welker evolved beyond that under O'Brien as the OC.

 

[Patsgofor4]

I trust that BB and co. have a master plan for their WR corps that we can't imagine at this point.

I still think that they will make an offer to Sanders. I doubt that they would have hosted him without making that decision already. He could have said or done something during his visit that turned them off but this seems highly uplikely. I guess that he could have asked for too much money. I agree with those who have speculated that they are just waiting for the right/best time to make the offer, perhaps when Pitt is most vulnerable. Now that the poison pill is not available, a Welker-like trade seems less likely. I hope that another team doesn't ride the Pats wave and make an offer.

Cruz is still a remote possibility but I can't see BB giving up a 1st AND a huge contract. The Sanders scenario seems more palatable.

 

[supafly]

Vereen is an interesting proposition in the passing game. I wonder if we'll see more screens and dump offs to the RB's in 2013?

It was nice to see them go back to that aspect last year, seeing Woodhead catch 40 balls.

Besides the 2011 season (low 30's I believe) they had completed roughly 50-55+ balls to RB's just about every season in the Belichick era (I am unsure of the specifics, but Deus Irae put up some numbers after the 2011 season that proved this), so they did a good job of getting back to that form again.

I'd have to imagine that it will be a key once again, especially with Vereen, Leon Washington, and possibly Demps contributing on those catches. Any combination of those 3 RB's should get us to the usual goal of 50-55 or so.

 

[naF staP]

I bow to your certainty and your close relationships with GMs and coaches. But you are not addressing the argument. The assertion that the Patriots need to "get away from Welker's limitations" is ridiculous. BB wanted Welker and offered him $10 million. Had Welker accepted Belichick's offer, he would still be a Patriot. Welker wanted to see what his value was on the market and BB went to plan B. So for BB, Welker was plan A and Amendola was plan B. Amendola is a promising player, but I'd be surprised if any of your coach and GM friends think Amendola will produce at the level Welker has.

Serious question here, and please correct me if I am wrong.

Didn't word finally come out that Amendola was signed on Tuesday or agreed to a contract on Tuesday before Welker was even given an offer by the Patriots? I believe that's how it went down, so how could Welker have been plan A? It sounds like Amendola was the Patriots plan A.

 

[Paul_Newman]

If they sign Sanders, I think they have much better weapons than '12.

First, let's remember that both Gronk and Hernandez played a total of ONE game together. Just getting them both on the field together instantly makes the offense better.

The problem with the Patriots is that they don't have anyone that puts fear in the corners on the outside. Which is why teams play man to man.

With the roster additions of Sanders, Amendola, and Jones, they seem to be putting together a core that can beat their man, and get open utilizing their speed and agility.

You add that to the potent up the middle passing game, the Patriots pass offense actually becomes as complete since the 2007 season.

Sanders, Amendola, and Jones don't have to be Moss, Welker, and Stallworth from '07. Just their unique skills will mesh really nicely with Gronk and Hernandez.

I think Pats are having a great off-season. They're going to bring in another receiver. They only have like 3 on the roster as it stands! Relax.

 

[supafly]

Serious question here, and please correct me if I am wrong.

Didn't word finally come out that Amendola was signed on Tuesday or agreed to a contract on Tuesday before Welker was even given an offer by the Patriots? I believe that's how it went down, so how could Welker have been plan A? It sounds like Amendola was the Patriots plan A.

That's how it reportedly went down. It's official with the NFL offices that Amendola signed his contract on Tuesday, so they apparently went after him first. That meshes with their reported strong interest in last weekend's legal tampering period also.

It certainly appears as though Belichick had moved on from Welker quite some time ago, based on his offers. Whether they may have really been attempting to assess Edelman's skills (or Hernandez's in the slot) early last year remains to be seen, and we'll likely never really know for sure.

That's why those who say that "Brady must really be pissed" aren't taking into account that Brady had likely realized quite some time ago that it was a very good possibility of moving on from Welker. They somehow think that his contract extension was wrongly tied into the expectation of resigning Welker--specifically.

There was likely a solid understanding that we would be doing everything possible to add some key pieces to the team as a whole, and to improve upon the limitations that plagued the offense and its failures against more physical teams in the playoffs.

 

[supafly]

First, let's remember that both Gronk and Hernandez played a total of ONE game together.

I agree with some of your thoughts, but this statement is not even close to true.

The TE duo played approximately 1/3 of the season together, or about 5-6 games.


Just off the top of my head, we know for a fact that they both played in the first (TEN) and last (MIA) games together, so there's 2. They also played in the span where Hernandez came back in the SEA game through the Nov. 18th game vs INDY when Gronk was injured, so there's at least another 4. I'm counting 6 total.

EDIT: Hernandez may have backtracked in his healing, so he may have missed a game after the SEA one, so it's more likely 5.

 

[Paul_Newman]

Did you make any of these statements while Welker was still a Patriot? Welker is headed to the HOF as the best slot receiver ever to play the game. There is simply no other with fewer limitations.

Stop, he's not a HOF. The dude could barely get into the game before his Patriot years.

There was a really good article on Amendola. Everything he's done pre-Patriot blows away what Welker did.

And as good as Welker was(I'm not saying he was not good), you can't for one second ignore the great system of the Patriots, and you know, the guy throwing him the football.

Welker is up there in age, I have NO problem that they left him go.

I am sorry, the Patriots aren't winning a superbowl by just throwing to the slot, and the tight ends. Defenses have caught on! It doesn't work against the great defensive teams anymore.

It's about evolving the passing game, and not being so one dimensional. Patriots were right for not overpaying for his services, and just moving on.

He's had wonderful seasons here. Time to move on. They moved on fine without Moss, and they'll move on fine without Welker.