Welcome to PatsFans.com

Terrence Cody?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by patsfan-1982, Jan 17, 2010.

  1. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    4,045
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +7 / 1 / -0

    if terrence cody, is there at pick #22 do the pats take him.


    wilfork has shown he can play seymour, spot at DE cody at NT and warren at the other DE that would realy beef up the run D


    or put terrence cody, at DE like the ravens do with Haloti Ngata, cody at 6.5 360lbs playing DE would be sick



    what do you guys think ?
  2. BritPat

    BritPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Messages:
    4,494
    Likes Received:
    55
    Ratings:
    +135 / 2 / -2

    #54 Jersey

    Re: terrence cody ?

    1. Wrong forum ;)

    2. Ngata plays at DE because he has unbelievable athleticism, and runs like a LB. Terrence Cody makes Ted Washington look like Usain Bolt.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2010
  3. Taxed in Maine

    Taxed in Maine Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    NO. Too many other needs. NT isn't one of them.
  4. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,639
    Likes Received:
    163
    Ratings:
    +366 / 0 / -1

    This has been discussed in detail on the draft board, in multiple threads. Opinions range from Ochmed Jones, who believes Cody is NFL ready and is better than Vince Wilfork right now, to those that believe that Cody is just an overweight big body who won't translate well to the pro game.

    Some comments:

    1. If Wilfork leaves, then NT becomes a priority. Hopefully, that doesn't happen, or at worst we get high draft picks to draft someone to fill that spot. Most people aren't comfortable with the idea of Ron Brace as our starting NT in 2010.

    2. If Wilfork is franchised then things could get better, and drafting a replacement may make some sense. But we have other, more pressing needs.

    3. Wilfork did play some 3-4 DE this year, so there is some sense to drafting Cody at 22 and putting Wilfork at DE. It would certainly create a DL that would be hard to run on.

    4. Cody is pretty much a pure 3-4 NT. If you want someone with a bit more athleticism who might have the versatility to play different fronts and even some 3-4 DE, consider Tennessee's Dan Williams. 6'3", 327#, has drawn some comparisons to Baltimore's Haloti Ngata, though I think he lacks Ngata's almost unique athleticism.
  5. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,434
    Likes Received:
    93
    Ratings:
    +222 / 17 / -2

    I agree that Williams has more flexibility than Cody, but then so does Wilfork. I would be fine with trading up for any top talent DL that Pepper and Belichick thinks will help the DL. I would think that Williams gives us the most flexibility. This would be esoecially important if the Wilfork situation is still in doubt on Draft Day.

    For me, if we draft Williams or Cody, we will not draft a pure 3-4 DE early, although a DE/OLB replacement for Thomas is clearly still needed.

    For me, it always comes down to choosing the best strategy to secure a top talent DL, DE/OLB and OG. Unfortunately, we need to hit on three positions in this draft, and get solid contributions from them (as someone said, at least what we got out of Butler).

  6. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    5,750
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +14 / 2 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    No doubt Mt. Cody is a pure 3-4 NT and provides NO position versatility whatsoever.

    However what you get with Mt. Cody is a guy that can not be moved off the LOS. He eats double teams as easily as anybody I have ever seen. He frees up LBers to roam unmolested sideline to sideline.

    Mt. Cody is an instance upgrade over Pro bowl NT Wilfork as a run blocker because Mt. Cody anchors naturally and Wilfork tends to play on skates. (See first play of Ravens game for excellent definition of what play on skates means.)
    Yes Wilfork is the better "pass rusher", but let's get real,we are talking about the NT position. Hello?

    BB has a real dilemma on his hands with Wilfork.

    1.) Does BB shell out the huge dollar contract to keep him. (Wilfork is happy and his play considerably due to the phat contract.)
    2.) Does BB franchise him and sign him to a one year deal. (Wilfork considers this antagonistic and entrenched warfare results in hurt feelings on both sides. Plus NO Mt. Cody in the 2011 draft.)
    3.) Does BB franchise him and trade him after securing Mt. Cody via the draft. (Why would a team trade for Wilfork knowing we have to do something now that we drafted Cody. Side Note: Mt. Cody and Wilfork side by side in a permanent big nickel defense would be my ideal situation,if BB would ever figure out how to draft OLBs.))
    4.) Does BB franchise Wilfork and hope Miami and BP are willing to cough up two first round picks for a NT in the prime of his career.
    5.) Does BB let him walk and pocket the comp pick.

    I am hoping BB spends the next couple of weeks hiring real NFL coordinators and adds a few more position coaches that can teach. Then he needs to resolve the Wilfork situation, the longer it lingers the more potential for entrenched warfare.
  7. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,639
    Likes Received:
    163
    Ratings:
    +366 / 0 / -1

    Here are two recent reviews of Terrance Cody and Dan Williams by KC Joyner at the Draftlab for ESPN Insider.

    First, Cody:


    The NFL scouting combine has a wide variety of drills to gauge a player's proficiency in many physical areas -- the bench press measures strength, the vertical jump and broad jump grade short-area burst capabilities and the 20- and 60-yard shuttle drills rank a player's ability to start and stop quickly.

    As valuable as these training methods are, after looking at game tapes of Alabama Crimson Tide nose tackle Terrence Cody, it is clear there is one physical attribute the combine doesn't measure that it badly needs to.

    That attribute is endurance. Look at Cody's relative lack of playing time in a key, four-game SEC stretch that the Crimson Tide recently went through (at Kentucky, at Mississippi, vs. South Carolina, vs. Tennessee).

    Alabama faced 116 rushing plays in those games and Cody was on the field for only 68 of them, or 58.6 percent. Nick Saban's defense also faced 165 pass plays and Cody was in the game on but 54 of those plays, or 32.7 percent. Add the two together and Cody was in the Alabama defensive lineup on only 122 of 281 plays -- or only 43.4 percent of the time. To look at it another way, he was on the field for approximately 30 out of 70 plays per game.

    That sounds like a low number, but a key element in the Draft Lab series is that any collegiate totals have to be compared to NFL totals to see how they contrast. The expectation is that a draft prospect should be able to post totals against the lower level of competition in college that are appreciably better than a pro player's totals against NFL talent.

    In Cody's case, a perfect comparison would be how his playing time matches up against that of NFL nose tackles. I don't have those numbers available, but I do have a reasonable facsimile in a 2007 study I did on playing time for three top 4-3 defensive tackles the previous season: Albert Haynesworth, Cory Redding and Kevin Williams.

    At the time of the study, Redding and Williams were both noted for their ability as every-down players, but Haynesworth had the same knock on him about his inability to stay on the field that he has today. If Cody's collegiate playing time doesn't even match Haynesworth's it cannot be seen as a good sign, but there is a caveat: Alabama has a deep defensive line rotation. It is possible that Cody could play more, but without a way of measuring endurance, NFL teams will have a tough time determining if that is the case.

    That isn't the only caveat, however. Cody reportedly weighed more than 400 pounds as a juco player, and the first thing the Crimson Tide coaching staff told him when he transferred to Alabama was that he would have to lose a good deal of weight in order to get on the field. He certainly accomplished that, with his reported weight now at 354 pounds, but it very well could be that the Bama coaching staff still lacks faith in his ability to stay on the field for longer periods of time.

    The Haynesworth comparison is also not entirely apt because Cody's performance metrics in these four games come nowhere close to matching Haynesworth's totals. Cody did draw a higher rate of double-teams (63.6 percent to Haynesworth's 2007 double-team mark of 51.3 percent) but he notched only five Point of Attack (POA) blocking wins in 22 POA runs, or a win rate of 22.7 percent. In the three full seasons of run metrics I have completed on Haynesworth over the years, his POA win rates were 43.4 percent (2005), 32.3 percent (2007) and 23.8 percent (2008). Haynesworth's metrics are a high bar to reach, but if Cody cannot exceed those totals against college blockers, it stands to reason that he might struggle to equal those numbers at the pro level.

    Cody also was basically nonexistent as a pass-rusher. He relied heavily on the bull rush and sometimes got into a very bad habit of doing a one-armed bull rush. That move didn't work for him in these games and it absolutely won't cut it at the next level.

    His pass-rushing metrics also reflect a lack of success. He made three splash plays in these four games and one of them was a borderline call that I decided in his favor (splash plays being defined as when a defensive player does something that impacts a passing play -- sacks, passes knocked down and offensive holding penalties being three examples). Good NFL nose tackles tend to generate six to eight splash plays a year and Cody is barely on track to reach that total.

    The last item of note is that Cody's draft prospects seemed to get a bit of a shot in the arm when he blocked two critical field goals in Alabama's win over Tennessee. As impressive as those were on their face, in both cases Cody was part of a double-team. He didn't defeat either blocker on his own, so the blocks should be seen as more of a collective effort than a singular effort. That he took his helmet off after the second field goal while the play was still live (something that should have cost the Crimson Tide a penalty) also indicates that he may have a bit of the bad part of Leon Lett in him.


    TFS Lab Result: Cody's size, strength and ability to draw a double-team are impressive, but his subpar metric performance and the overriding concerns about his endurance give him a qualified TFS overhyped grade. If a team takes him in the second round with the idea that he is a two-down space-eater who can plug run gaps, he's a good fit. If a team takes him in the first round with the idea that he will be an every-down nose tackle, that would be a mistake.


    In summary, Cody is an effective 2 down space eater who will eat up double teams and who will be hard to move off the line. He won't penetrate much, has no positional versatility, and is questionable as a 3 down player.

    Now Williams:


    One of the most difficult scouting projects is grading an inconsistent player. When a player alternates between performing well and performing poorly, the issue is no longer a matter of whether or not he has professional-level potential. The question that has to be answered at that point is why there is a performance variance and whether or not the issue causing the inconsistency can be corrected.

    I bring this up because Tennessee senior defensive tackle Dan Williams (#32 in Todd McShay's Mock Draft 1.0 and #18 on Mel Kiper's latest Big Board) may be the most inconsistent player I have reviewed in the Draft Lab series.

    I graded six games of Williams' 2009 season (at Florida, vs. Auburn, vs. Georgia, at Alabama, vs. South Carolina, at Ole Miss). He has a reputation of being a run-stuffer, but in the first two contests, Williams won only one of the seventeen Point of Attack (POA) run blocks he faced. It wasn't a matter of his being double-teamed, as he faced only one blocker on twelve of the seventeen blocks. In addition, it is worth noting that the runners gained 70 yards on the runs, so it also wasn't a case where Williams plugged the holes without beating the blocker.

    Now contrast that performance to the Week Six game against Georgia. Williams faced seven POA blocks and won three of them. Georgia runners also gained only 11 total yards on those carries and five of them resulted in a gain of two or fewer yards.

    The scouting eye and metric eyes were in agreement that Williams was hustling much more in that contest. Proof for this can be found in that all three of his wins came when he defeated a blocker on the backside of the run and then pursued the ballcarrier down. That is a rare and very valuable trait that shows just how good Williams can be when his motor is running.

    One surprising finding was how good Williams did in the splash play department (a splash play being when a defender does something to negatively impact a pass). His 11 splash plays in six games isn't in Ndamukong Suh territory but it does rank quite well with the Draft Lab findings for Gerald McCoy (10 splash plays in five games) and beats the marks posted by Marvin Austin (three in five games) and Terrence Cody (three in four games).

    Williams' high splash play total was generated in part because he has a very effective swim move. He also has a superb spin move that he wasn't able to get much success out of because the Volunteers faced so much zone pass blocking. If he gets with an NFL team that can put him into more man-blocking situations, Williams should be able to get more than a few splash plays with this move.

    For all of the positives listed above, my scouting eye was consistently reminded of the inconsistency issue and it led me to ponder the question posed at the beginning of this article -- what is causing this issue and can it be corrected when Williams gets to the next level? Williams realizes his habits weren't what they should be. He also realizes that he does better when paired with a coach who will stay on his case on a consistent basis.

    The Football Scientist Lab Result: Williams may be a high-maintenance coaching project but the on-field upside is tremendous and makes it worth the effort. He gets a TFS seal of approval as long as he is picked up by a team that has a fire and brimstone motivator ready to work with him from day one.


    In sum, Williams isn't quite the immovable space eater that Cody is but has better athleticism and agility, and more ability to disrupt plays and make big plays. He is also very inconsistent, and is a boom or bust kind of prospect. He compares more as an Albert Haynesworth or Haloti Ngata type of talent - perhaps not quite at the elite level of those guys, but not far off when he is on.
  8. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    Joyner have anything on any of the other DL types likely to be available in the mid-to-late first/early second?
  9. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,639
    Likes Received:
    163
    Ratings:
    +366 / 0 / -1

    So far the only recent DL profile is on Derrick Morgan. I'll keep an eye out and will post any that come up. They are interesting evals.
  10. carolinatony

    carolinatony Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    In summary, Cody is an effective 2 down space eater who will eat up double teams and who will be hard to move off the line. He won't penetrate much,
    has no positional versatility, and is questionable as a 3 down player.

    Cody also was basically nonexistent as a pass-rusher. He relied heavily on the bull rush and sometimes got into a very bad habit of doing a one-armed bull rush. That move didn't work for him in these games and it absolutely won't cut it at the next level



    Righ again Mayo. Living in the south I have seen Bama play a lot.
    What Cody did in collage won't work in the Pros. He just overpowered most OL but he was just so Big he could do it.
    I have seen him look winded a lot and if he happens to gain that 25/30 lbs will just be a big rock in the middle of the line. Yeah; you can't move him but he can't move either.
  11. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    5,043
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    I'm glad someone with some knowledge can douse the Mount Cody to the Pats fire. I agree with you he is solely a 2 down player, and even that is suspect since he is practically immobile in there. IMO, he is more situational/goal line DT which is not the type of guy you want to draft early. Maybe 3rd round where another situational player was taken last year (Michael Johnson - Bengals). He is certainly not a viable replacement for Wilfork.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>