State Of The Franchise

[Ring 6]

I think there are a lot of enigmatic characteristics about this franchise.
It seems even with a fan base that seems to enjoy criticizing it, each year, the team reaches the point where the majority expect a SB title, and they have fallen short. How many times have we hit the 'I can't believe that would ever happen to the Patriots" stage?
2006- How could we lose to the Colts, or blow a lead.
2007- How could a BB team ever lose a SB
2009- How could we lose a home playoff game?
2010- How could we lose to a team that we destroyed a few weeks earlier, or lose in the divisional round with a 14-2 record
2011- How could we lose another SB?
2012- How could we lose an AFCCG at home/

It looks like a run of falling short and underachieving, but I think it is the opposite.
I think the Patriots have overachieved, raised the bar and that has led to expectations being too high.

Look at this year. We lost at home to a bad Arizona team, and almost lost at home to the Jets and Buffalo. We lost to the Ravens. We were almost blown out of our own stadium by the 49ers. Yet were were 12-4 and hosting the AFCCG. I think there is every reason to believe that this is and has been a very average team elevated by Tom Brady and Bill Belichick that can dominate lesser teams and when we face talented teams thiose advantages make us a toss up.

Have they been good enough to get to 2 SBs 2 more Conf Champ games, win 6 of 7 AFCE titles, have the best overall record, come within a play of 2 Championships and a bad day from 2 more SB trips?.
Have they been not good enough to be better than 8-7 in the post season, not win a title, lose playoff games at home and fall short?

That is what I see. Clearly Brady and Belichick give this team a huge advantage. The smart play, situational football, and team attitude that gets so mich publicity clearly allows the team to exceed the sum total of its talent.

I think the stability, system, intelligence of the team and Tom Brady gives them a substantial advantage against teams with equal talent.

I do not think an 8-7 record since 2005 in the post season, 4 AFCCGs (2-2) and 2 SB trips and losses is a bad run unless you believe their is an entitlement to winning the SB every year.
I think the solid foundation, and steady success sets fans up to feel disappointed by the results.
Of course winning the SB is what matters most. I would very likely trade every success in those 8 years for 1 ring, but GIVEN NO RING it is awfully impressive.

We tend to believe the result define the talent, but I don't think that is entirely accurate. This team without BB would not come close to what it has done, nor would it without Brady.

If you really break down the team, there are many areas that are not outstanding.
With the GOAT at QB no matter where you place your assessment of Welker the combination has been great, and Gronk is a beast. Otherwise?
OL- We start 2 players who would struggle to find starting jobs elsewhere, yet we plug in scrubs and until we lose a playoff game no one even feels the OL is any kind of issue. L
RB- Ridley did his job, but in an offense where teams dare you to run, he isn't exactly dominating the league. The RBs before him struggled to average results with those advantages.
WR- Lloyd is a sold WR. We have used Branch, Edelman, 85, Underwood, Slater, Aiken, etc over the years.
All of these areas are OK when you have a decisive advantage at QB and HC, not so great when the opponent is equally or more talented.
Hernandez is lauded as a stud, but without Brady he may just be a small TE with good RAC that barely gets noticed. The drops do not help in tight games.

Defensively, we have on the DL, Vince who is amazing vs the run but is not an effective pass rusher. Nothing else of any value at DT. A rookie at one DE who was invisible the 2nd half of the year and a guy on the other side who struggles play to play with not getting swallowed up by blockers, but becomes a hero when he makes 10 plays in a season. Depth? We use a 260 34 OLB at DT.
At LB, we have now built a strong group. They do have their weaknesses though, and when the depth is a DE, Mike Rivera and Tracy White, WTF?
The secondary, more than any other part of team has been good enough (paired with the highest scoring offense in the NFL) to win many games, but gets exposed in tight spots in big games.

The reality is that this is most likely an average collection of talent plus Tom Brady and Bill Belichick which results in being able to dominate many teams, but is in a dog fight and roughly a 50/50 shot vs the cream of the crop.

That, over the long haul is better than just about any franchise out there, but in the short haul needs some things to go right to get all the way.

In a league where there have been 11 different teams representing the NFC in the SB in 12 years, I don't know that this assessment should be depressing, but it certainly is more realistic than saying they are the greatest ever except they choke, are ****ies, have no leaders, etc, etc.

 

[thenepatsrule]

As many people including me have observed the PATS are like the Yankees, Everyone expects us to make the post season every year, and anything short of a SB victory is considered a failure.

 

[Ring 6]

As many people including me have observed the PATS are like the Yankees, Everyone expects us to make the post season every year, and anything short of a SB victory is considered a failure.

Agreed and when you dig deeper, the qualities that elevate them THAT far lead people to believe they should dominate everyone.

 

[Get it shawtaay]

Good post. Very rational and dispassionate analysis. Its incredible how before the season people will build up every member of the 53 to be some kind of all-pro, and then when their season ends proclaim it to be a band of 53 hobos in pads.

I have a lot of friends who are passionate football fans. They might not represent the average football fan, because I choose not to associate with idiots. But after that loss, any irrational disappointment I felt was tempered by all the texts from my friends, about how great our season was and how impressive the team was in victory and defeat. They watch the Chargers, the Browns, the Chiefs, the Jets. They know that losing in the AFCCG does not need to be followed up by some kind of witch hunt or house-cleaning. People need to have some perspective.

 

[aluminum seats]

Of course winning the SB is what matters most. I would very likely trade every success in those 8 years for 1 ring

The reality is that this is most likely an average collection of talent plus Tom Brady

Good question, maybe poll-worthy. If the choice was one Super Bowl and years of crap vs. sustained excellence, which would you choose. Hmm.

Disagree with the average collection of talent line.

 

[Brady2Moss]

I'd take the Super Bowl, the sustained excellence has brought a lot of fun, but a lot of pain with it with every kick in the jewels every January for the last 8 years (including 2 super kicks delivered in feb 08 and feb 12)

 

[Tunescribe]

Great and logical perspective, Andy. Sure beats "Is Brady a Choker?" and "BB is the Problem," etc., nonsense we've seen posted today.

 

[1%er]

I think there are a lot of enigmatic characteristics about this franchise.
It seems even with a fan base that seems to enjoy criticizing it, each year, the team reaches the point where the majority expect a SB title, and they have fallen short. How many times have we hit the 'I can't believe that would ever happen to the Patriots" stage?
2006- How could we lose to the Colts, or blow a lead.
2007- How could a BB team ever lose a SB
2009- How could we lose a home playoff game?
2010- How could we lose to a team that we destroyed a few weeks earlier, or lose in the divisional round with a 14-2 record
2011- How could we lose another SB?
2012- How could we lose an AFCCG at home/

It looks like a run of falling short and underachieving, but I think it is the opposite.
I think the Patriots have overachieved, raised the bar and that has led to expectations being too high.

Look at this year. We lost at home to a bad Arizona team, and almost lost at home to the Jets and Buffalo. We lost to the Ravens. We were almost blown out of our own stadium by the 49ers. Yet were were 12-4 and hosting the AFCCG. I think there is every reason to believe that this is and has been a very average team elevated by Tom Brady and Bill Belichick that can dominate lesser teams and when we face talented teams thiose advantages make us a toss up.

Have they been good enough to get to 2 SBs 2 more Conf Champ games, win 6 of 7 AFCE titles, have the best overall record, come within a play of 2 Championships and a bad day from 2 more SB trips?.
Have they been not good enough to be better than 8-7 in the post season, not win a title, lose playoff games at home and fall short?

That is what I see. Clearly Brady and Belichick give this team a huge advantage. The smart play, situational football, and team attitude that gets so mich publicity clearly allows the team to exceed the sum total of its talent.

I think the stability, system, intelligence of the team and Tom Brady gives them a substantial advantage against teams with equal talent.

I do not think an 8-7 record since 2005 in the post season, 4 AFCCGs (2-2) and 2 SB trips and losses is a bad run unless you believe their is an entitlement to winning the SB every year.
I think the solid foundation, and steady success sets fans up to feel disappointed by the results.
Of course winning the SB is what matters most. I would very likely trade every success in those 8 years for 1 ring, but GIVEN NO RING it is awfully impressive.

We tend to believe the result define the talent, but I don't think that is entirely accurate. This team without BB would not come close to what it has done, nor would it without Brady.

If you really break down the team, there are many areas that are not outstanding.
With the GOAT at QB no matter where you place your assessment of Welker the combination has been great, and Gronk is a beast. Otherwise?
OL- We start 2 players who would struggle to find starting jobs elsewhere, yet we plug in scrubs and until we lose a playoff game no one even feels the OL is any kind of issue. L
RB- Ridley did his job, but in an offense where teams dare you to run, he isn't exactly dominating the league. The RBs before him struggled to average results with those advantages.
WR- Lloyd is a sold WR. We have used Branch, Edelman, 85, Underwood, Slater, Aiken, etc over the years.
All of these areas are OK when you have a decisive advantage at QB and HC, not so great when the opponent is equally or more talented.
Hernandez is lauded as a stud, but without Brady he may just be a small TE with good RAC that barely gets noticed. The drops do not help in tight games.

Defensively, we have on the DL, Vince who is amazing vs the run but is not an effective pass rusher. Nothing else of any value at DT. A rookie at one DE who was invisible the 2nd half of the year and a guy on the other side who struggles play to play with not getting swallowed up by blockers, but becomes a hero when he makes 10 plays in a season. Depth? We use a 260 34 OLB at DT.
At LB, we have now built a strong group. They do have their weaknesses though, and when the depth is a DE, Mike Rivera and Tracy White, WTF?
The secondary, more than any other part of team has been good enough (paired with the highest scoring offense in the NFL) to win many games, but gets exposed in tight spots in big games.

The reality is that this is most likely an average collection of talent plus Tom Brady and Bill Belichick which results in being able to dominate many teams, but is in a dog fight and roughly a 50/50 shot vs the cream of the crop.

That, over the long haul is better than just about any franchise out there, but in the short haul needs some things to go right to get all the way.

In a league where there have been 11 different teams representing the NFC in the SB in 12 years, I don't know that this assessment should be depressing, but it certainly is more realistic than saying they are the greatest ever except they choke, are ****ies, have no leaders, etc, etc.

All very true Andy.. My only objection would be I do feel Ridley is a dominating RB and would be on any team. He in my opinion is one the most undervalued members of the Patriots.

Overall this franchise is the very best in the NFL top to bottom. We are very lucky to be fans of it.

 

[Bella*chick]

I find it less difficult each year actually.

In the beginning, it felt like we just couldn't lose and we didn't so when we did (2006) it was really tough to take.

2007 remains to this day such a huge defining moment for me. I'll never care that much again. I just won't.

The more stuff like this happens, the more I realized, this is the norm. Making the Superbowl is HARD. It is not easy to win a championship every year, or most years or even any year. I'm not sure I really believed that in, say, 2004.

What I'm most tired of is supposed fans turning on the team, the coaches, whatever when a week ago it was all love and kisses. I expect that crap from opposing fans but when its our own I just get really sick of it.

 

[1%er]

As many people including me have observed the PATS are like the Yankees, Everyone expects us to make the post season every year, and anything short of a SB victory is considered a failure.

I think what we need to understand is the Yankees have a financial advantage and the Patriots compete while playing within the rules and boundaries of the NFL and a salary cap.

 

[jnug]

Brady is not a choker. While I think BB needs to make a few subtle changes in the way he values talent in particular positions...most notably DB and Receiver he is a smart smart coach, stubborn but very smart. If he just makes a few modifications in those areas I think the team will fair much better in post season play.

Hopefully some defensive changes will also add to the physical nature of the defense. Please don't tell me how physical Spikes is...this defense is not very physical and I hate seeing our team beaten from pillar to post by more physical teams.

 

[DocHoliday]

Yup, look at my sig.

Tom Brady's accuracy has allowed this team to 'cheat' with smaller, less physical receivers and retreads for a long time.

The defensive schemes got Edelman slater ihedigbo Arrington and brown to a SB!!

Our talent is not as great as we think it is and it's due to amazing coaching and QB play that we do as well as we do. That and offensive schemes that essentially get us uncontested yards and catches, which when are exposed after a season of study by playoff teams reveals the truth - smoke and mirrors hiding a collection of hardworking players greatly overachieving.

At some point the lack of true speed, strength, height and overall talent and depth gets you.

 

[jnug]

Thank you Doc...Well said.

 

[goheels22002]

I agree with most of what the OP said, but disagree about the defensive line. It is a very good run-stopping defensive line that excelled at making teams one-dimensional. It is not built on height and speed like the NY Giants.

That line did a good job against the Ravens' running game last night, and all season long. Chandler Jones was a great draft pick who will come into his own as he matures as a player and as a man.

It depends on what you want in your defensive line - this group is definitely a strength of this team.

 

[Spiral]

I feel bad today because the season is over. I always feel like winter begins the day the Patriots season ends.

OTOH, I believe this team is on the upswing. This year, the defense went from bad to mediocre. With a lot of first and second-year players, there is room for more improvement in 2013.

In the salary-cap era, there just aren't going to be any truly dominant teams like the Packers or Steelers. The best you can reasonably expect is to be one of the 6-8 teams with a legit SB chance at the beginning of the year, and then to be one of 4-5 teams going into the playoffs with decent chance to win the tournament. The Patriots have been one of those teams for the past ten years, except for the playoffs in 2002 and 2008.

This is the best franchise in the league.

 

[jnug]

The front seven is very "run stop oriented". I would trade a little less of that in the front four for a little more of a pass rush. Even the best pass defending every down linebackers...guys that don't embarrass themselves against the run are just not that great as pass defenders. That is what the strong safety is there for in some defenses and you want your strong side LB to be a decent LB against the pass.

I could even be made to think the front four is fine as is if we had some big physical DB's.

 

[fxkane]

I think what we need to understand is the Yankees have a financial advantage and the Patriots compete while playing within the rules and boundaries of the NFL and a salary cap.

A crucial difference. The Yanks are expected to win every year not because they are a superior baseball team, but because they are RICH, in OUTSPEND even their closest neighbor by 30 million or sometimes much more.

Their position bears no resemblance to that of the Pats, nor really to any other professional sports team because they hold an advantage that no other team has.

 

[Get it shawtaay]

A crucial difference. The Yanks are expected to win every year not because they are a superior baseball team, but because they are RICH, in OUTSPEND even their closest neighbor by 30 million or sometimes much more.

Their position bears no resemblance to that of the Pats, nor really to any other professional sports team because they hold an advantage that no other team has.

I would argue the Los Angeles Lakers are comparable. They cannot outspend their opponents, but the frequency with which bad teams trade them top players for bad ones suggests a degree of entitlement that should bring many championships.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Some people still don't get how hard it is in this league. The last team to go to the super bowl and make it this far the following season was............ you guessed it, us in 2004. Before that it was the Broncos in 1998. And yet this season was a failure and/or drastic change is needed?

 

[jnug]

There is the pro ballplayers mentality of anything less than winning the last game of the year makes the season a failure. It should be difficult for fans to call this season a failure. This franchise is in so much better shape than most NFL franchises. It only needs a tweek here and there....not wholesale changes.