Specter: Goodell's explanations don't pass scrutiny

[SVN]

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

Florio's update:



We are getting closer and closer to this "league wide evidence" rumor coming to the forefront. If thats the type of investigation Congress wants to bring, I'm all for it. Should shut up the "CHEATERS!1!" morons just a bit.

I don't understand why Florio and Specter are freaking out about the "destroying evidence" though. No one broke any laws. No one destroyed any evidence of a crime. It was a rule. This lawyer did nothing wrong.

as much i would like to believe it i think florio is just talking what other people are speculating. i dont know what evidence BB would have of other teams spying and if he did the fines wouldnt have been so heavy. it was funny of the commish on SB week to say that teams regularly change signals and one of the tapes showed the opposing coach wave his hand presumably knowing what was going on. No one asked which opposing teams staff it was that waved hands. He made it sound like common practice.Still he levied the heaviest fine in NFL history.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

It's not the Boston patriots it's the New England patriots. The pats have never been a Boston team. in fact they were close to moving to Connecticut. The simple fact is Boston would like to claim this team, but the Pats have always been all of New England. The stadium isn't even located in Boston.

Actually, at one time they were the Boston Patriots and he's referring to the Greater Boston Metropolitan area which encompasses parts of Maine, NH, Mass. RI, and Connecticut. As a native Mainah, I don't mind being associated with Boston in this context. The only time I refer to them as from away is when they infest my state as tourists. This is when we release our selectively bred swarms of black flies that will eventually drive them back to the big city, force them to spend all their money and not want to stay longer than a 3-day weekend.

 

[PromisedLand]

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

Actually, at one time they were the Boston Patriots and he's referring to the Greater Boston Metropolitan area which encompasses parts of Maine, NH, Mass. RI, and Connecticut. As a native Mainah, I don't mind being associated with Boston in this context. The only time I refer to them as from away is when they infest my state as tourists. This is when we release our selectively bred swarms of black flies that will eventually drive them back to the big city, force them to spend all their money and not want to stay longer than a 3-day weekend.

I bet you don't mind the money the tourists pump into your local economy though!

 

[shmessy]

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

You mean so we can wade through 10,000 posts on a single thread to get the insight we want?

I'm quite sane enough to determine what threads I want to read, and which I want to ignore.

Reading War And Peace is bad enough. Don't do this to us.

Exactly. Which is why I won't do it. If another Mod feels differently, then that will be done.

However:

1) Spygate is not ONE story. There are too many distinct parts to it. BB, Kraft, Specter, Comcast, Goodell, Marshall Faulk, Don Shula, Mangini, Easterbrooke, etc. etc. This is not a discussion on Rodney Harrison's hammy. We have, and will definitely continue, to consolidate multiple threads into one if there are multiples of "Specter is a jerk" or BB needs to say something" threads.

2) The forum board is organized in a thread list fashion. All people need to do is use their cursor to go down the list of subjects if they want to avoid having to read about Spygate. I understand we live in an age of unparalelled comfort with remote control house lights and such, but really how much effort need expend to use a computer cursor.

 

[BPF]

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

Exactly. Which is why I won't do it. If another Mod feels differently, then that will be done.

However:

1) Spygate is not ONE story. There are too many distinct parts to it. BB, Kraft, Specter, Comcast, Goodell, Marshall Faulk, Don Shula, Mangini, Easterbrooke, etc. etc. This is not a discussion on Rodney Harrison's hammy. We have, and will definitely continue, to consolidate multiple threads into one if there are multiples of "Specter is a jerk" or BB needs to say something" threads.

2) The forum board is organized in a thread list fashion. All people need to do is use their cursor to go down the list of subjects if they want to avoid having to read about Spygate. I understand we live in an age of unparalelled comfort with remote control house lights and such, but really how much effort need expend to use a computer cursor.

On WEEI's Big Show they are discussing the different angles on this case right now. Mostly they are focusing on the Comcast angle.

Ordway made the point of saying this is a non-issue because no law was broken and the NFL rule that was violated was that the camera was in the wrong spot, because you can tape defensive signals just not from the field. So of course other teams are spying but just not spying and taping from the sideline. Specter saw how much attention the other Senators received the other day on the steroid scandal and knows the attention this will receive. He is trying to hold the NFL's feet to the fire so they bend on his real issues, Comcast and anti-trust exemption.

They are wondering out loud if your going to look into this why not then look into subpoening each coach on how they run their operations (salary cap mgmt, injury reports, talking to FA's early, etc.) If the point is to uncover wrong doing and ensure competitive balance then why not. Why not subpoena the Colts sound guy?? etc, etc.

 

[Pats726]

What can be done now???

I have been away all day..and with this have wondered who on the committee is supporting Leahy and Spector? I am going to write leahy in any event and would like to know who else supports the witch hun..or who on the committee might oppose it all.
In writing, I have mentioned 1---the whole Comcasy Spector connection and how with HIM driving this, it's a real conflict of interest and totally unethical. 2---I have also pointed out how unfair the timing was of Spector's grandstanding 2 days before the Superbowl and making an analogy with an opponent in an election making severe allegations a day before an election. Neither is fair in my book 3---Wanting the committee to not only widen the view of the NFL, but to being in all sides on taping, from ex-coaches to other like Steve Sabol and to look into other practices by teams...from removing the 15 second blackout from helmet to coach communications, (which is many many times worse), piping in fake crowd noise, to looking at the officials and some games that they may have pushed the outcomes with their calls. Seems fair to me IF they do that..
I do think letters better than e-mail and other on the committee should also know what a travesty this all is. Ideas??

 

[DropKick Flutie]

No, the largest fine because a brand new NFL Commissioner came in with a "new Sheriff in town" mentality and got media kudos for his harsh response to the Pacman and Vick situations. He figured he would be a hero on this one too, but something tells me when he dug a bit further he found the real truth. Many, many teams do it and he got dragged into a border war between BB/Mangini. Nothing more.

100% correct.

If you knew the slightest thing about football, you would know that Defensive signal stealing goes on at every level. Hell, I coach in HS and my HC/DC has another guy give dummy signals because he knows the OC is looking right at him and trying to grab his calls. IN HIGH SCHOOL. Do you really think that in the NFL, with a coach's existance and millions at stake, no one is doing that now? And the bottom line is WHO CARES. Change your signals. It's a non-issue.

No kidding, my problem is with video taping walk thru. The rules are clear, video taping is not condoned. I want it to stop, league wide I want it to stop.

I remember a game years ago when the Pats played Miami (I believe) and Todd Collins picked off a pass and went yard. It came out later that the Pats LB's(under Carroll?) had figured out the other team's audibles. There are backup QB's in this league that are only still in football because they are good at picking off signals. You are naive if you deny it.

Go back and watch the Raiders/Bucs Super Bowl. I have no doubt that the Bucs were jumping routes and scoring on the strength of Gruden picking off the audibles.

Your holier than thou attitude betrays your ignorance.

Your persecution complex betrays your literacy... in my original post I said it was league wide, but the Pats are going to take the fall because they were the first to get caught.

This is brainless. It'll never stop. How are you going to police it. I can just as easily steal those signals with my own two eyes. Stop being a crybaby and a whiner. Your team sucks. Live with it.

How are you going to police it... hmmmm. STOP VIDEO TAPING!!!
Name calling and insulting my team...you make a very compelling argument. At least TripleOption has an argument to go along with his insults.

Please go eat some Flutie Flakes and leave this forum alone. It's time for you to suspend hopes that your Bills can improve their lot in the AFC East other than on the football field.

A Flutie Flakes crack is the best you got? I don't know if the second line was even an insult, because it made no sense.

 

[TripleOption]

No kidding, my problem is with video taping walk thru. The rules are clear, video taping is not condoned. I want it to stop, league wide I want it to stop.

First of all, the allegations about the walkthrough are unproven and were made by an evasive scumbag that was fired from the Pats. They have never been substantiated.

As far as stopping the taping, why do you care? It's been going on forever. What difference does it make?

 

[Tunescribe]

A Flutie Flakes crack is the best you got? I don't know if the second line was even an insult, because it made no sense.

But you do eat Flutie Flakes, don't you? Seeing you don't understand that "spygate" is much ado about BB's interpretation of a league rule addressing videotaping from the sidelines (hence, "rule infraction") helps explain your confusion re., the second point in my post. You just don't get it.

 

[PatsFanJess]

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

If that's true then they never should have hammered the Pats with fines and created this ****storm in the first place. They should have said, "no big deal, happens all the time" and given the Pats a slap on the wrist.

Goodell is an incompetent moron.

Ditto. I'm glad that Goodell's overwhelming need to feed his selfish ego and be a wannabe bad ***** is catching up with him. Way to go roger!

 

[DropKick Flutie]

First of all, the allegations about the walkthrough are unproven and were made by an evasive scumbag that was fired from the Pats. They have never been substantiated.

Not yet, but I'll give you this one. Maybe when Walsh finally shows what he has or doesn't have, we'll pick this back up.

As far as stopping the taping, why do you care? It's been going on forever. What difference does it make?

Because it's against the rules for a reason. If one team is doing it, it has to stop. 10 teams, 20, all of them... doesn't matter. It has to stop.

But you do eat Flutie Flakes, don't you?

Yes, I'm addicted to Flutie Flakes... I can't stop eating them. Morning, noon, and night. It's a compulsion really. I'm eating them right now. In fact it's getting hard to type, for the spaces in my keyboard are filled with sweet delicious Flutie Flake crumbs, because I'm constantly shoving them in my face.

Seeing you don't understand that "spygate" is much ado about BB's interpretation of a league rule addressing videotaping from the sidelines (hence, "rule infraction") helps explain your confusion re., the second point in my post. You just don't get it.

Even you don't believe that... besides, ignorance of a rule is no excuse for not following the rule. Try that BS with a cop the next time you get pulled over.

 

[TripleOption]

Even you don't believe that... besides, ignorance of a rule is no excuse for not following the rule. Try that BS with a cop the next time you get pulled over.

Uhhh...There's huge difference between state laws and NFL rules.

 

[Tunescribe]

Yes, I'm addicted to Flutie Flakes... I can't stop eating them. Morning, noon, and night. It's a compulsion really. I'm eating them right now. In fact it's getting hard to type, for the spaces in my keyboard are filled with sweet delicious Flutie Flake crumbs, because I'm constantly shoving them in my face.

I thought as much. Too much sugar does weird things to a person's sanity.

Even you don't believe that... besides, ignorance of a rule is no excuse for not following the rule. Try that BS with a cop the next time you get pulled over.

You are further proving your own ignorance. HAVE YOU READ THE FREAKIN' RULE? I have, and BB's interpretation is entirely plausible. In the league's Constitution & Bylaws, it reads: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

Now, don't sit there and try to tell me that the rule is not open to being interpreted as: prohibiting videotaping applied to use during the game in which the video is shot.

 

[bpeter17]

Now, don't sit there and try to tell me that the rule is not open to being interpreted as: prohibiting videotaping applied to use during the game in which the video is shot.

depends what the definition of "a" is.

 

[Tunescribe]

depends what the definition of "a" is.

I'm sure Dropkick Flutie will appreciate you pointing this out for him, so he can begin to absorb the concept that this rule is open to more than one interpretation.

 

[Evil Tom]

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

You might have a valid point if boston was actually larger then Indianapolis to bad you are way out in left field here. Here is the rankings on infoplease.com 13. Indianapolis Indiana 785,597 22. Boston Massachusetts 590,763 and lucas oil filed is owned by Indianapolis. and what nascar or indycar series race makes more money than ours a bigger city hosting nascar nope your point is moot. Get facts before you make yourself look stupid Dallas and New York might benefit but boston sure as hell would not.

This may be the most ignorant post I've seen in months. Let's look at market sizes by amount of TV households. http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/MarketTrack/US_HH_by_DMA.asp

Boston is the 7th largest market, Indy is the #26 market. A couple of other things to take into account, they're only counting Eastern Mass and Southern NH in the Boston Market. If they added Maine, Vermont, RI and half of CT the market size would move up.

Do you have an explanation of how you could come up with such an uniformed post when for decades Boston has been described as a "big market" team?

 

[Evil Tom]

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

It might help to take the heat off the Patriots but it might also help Specter remove the the NFL's anti-trust exemption which won't be good for anyone.

The NFL's anti-trust exemption is limited to allowing them to sell TV rights as a single entity and to share the revenue among the teams equally. If this gets revoked it will be popular with no voters and will be extremely unpopular with a large minority of voters.

Ask yourself - How many politicians will vote for a law that will gain him no votes but cost him 10% of the votes in the next election?

 

[PatsFan24]

the government should stay the **** out

 

[juny]

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

So CUF:
a. In this multi-billion dollar league where each team employs hundreds of people in terms of coaches, players, personnel, etc. you mean to tell me that BB's 7 year stretch of videotaping from a wide open sideline with a handheld video camera, by a member of the Patriots organization was so well shrouded, it was not found out about until 2007?

If so, BB should quit and go work for the Joint Chiefs of Staff running spec ops.

b. If Superbowl walk throughs were so secretive, how did an unidentified member of the Patriots gain access to the Rams practice mere months after 9/11 when security was at an all time high?

c. Why have other coaches come out and said this is no big deal?
d. Why have former players come out and said it goes on all over the league?


Are we truly to believe that 7 years of taping in the above mentioned fashion was so well guarded that no team in the NFL was able to catch them? Kind of makes you wonder if they even cared, huh?

Why change signals if you're not being watched right?


I don't agree with Goodell destroying the tapes, simply because of the ****storm it has created, but I really hope this investigation blows up to league wide proportions. I'm so sick of naive fans thinking it's a one team infraction.

I wish they'd investigate blatantly poor officiating in certain games that would seem to jibe with 'league interests.' i.e. Superbowl 40, 2007 AFCCG, 2006 Steelers/Colts game, etc.

Nice post Chris!

Also to add to the thought of : Why change signals if you're not being watched right?

Why cover your face with cardboard when calling in plays if you're not being watched? Why have decoy play signalers if you're not being watched?

 

[pheenix11]

You know I hope Specter does hold Congressional hearings and I hopes he calls BB and I hope BB drops a nuclear bomb on these azzholes and exposes the entire league. That is the only way this POS story will ever end.