Speaking of taking pulses - Dallas Morning News' Rich Gosslin's Pre-season Rankings

[spacecrime]

Fans can kick and scream all they want but only in revisionist history (post he left us) is AV just a kicker.

I think you misinterpreted what Promisedland said.

It isn't that AV is just a kicker, as he is only average. He meant he is just a kicker, in that kicker is probably the least important position on the team, except long snapper and maybe punter (P and PK are about equal).

It shows in salary. It shows in how sought after they are in the draft. Everyone railed about picking a PK in round four. Why? Because it is just a kicker.

It shows in the difference between a great kicker and a good kicker.

We obviosuly could not have won the SNow Bowl without AV. That was clutch. But that does not make him forever the savior of the Pats.

Wiggins was equally clutch in the SNow Bowl. Redmond. Who points to Redmonds run and WIggins catch as getting us into FG range so a kick could bed made?

He is just a kicker. He has been great for us, but of all the starting 25, he is the most expendable excort for Lonnie Paxton.

He was great for us. But let's not make himout to be Brady or Seymour.

 

[spacecrime]

The foundation on which the dynasty was built was anchored by Brady, Belichick and Vinatieri. That's history.

No, that is selective memory.

AV made a great kick to win the SB against the Rams. But the game was won on defense,not on his foot. His kick would have been meaningless if the score weren't tied (or withing three points).

He made ONE great play in the SB. Terrific. Let's admitthat and honor it.

But others also made onegreat play that was key to winning. Somne players made several GREAT plays.

You talk about disrespecting ADam. WHat are you doing to all the players that made key contgributions on every series of downs when you day that the kicker who came in for one play was the foundation of teh dynasty.

We will see. If AV was the foundation of the dynasty, we can expect to stay out of the playoffs from now on, right?

Of course not. We will be back in teh superbowl hunt because the foundation of the dyanasty is still on the team.

We lost players who contgributed. But you want to talk aobut foundations, how can you say Brady, BB and AV, and leave out WMG who also left. WMG provided more to the dynasty that a few plays. Seymour?

Brady, BB and AV.

Give me a friggin break.

He made the best kick in the history of the NFL. Leave it at that.

 

[primetime]

I think I'd have Carolina, Pittsburgh, NE, and Seattle at the top -- no particular order. Steady, well-rounded year-to-year veteran excellence.

Indy's been weakened. They're in the next tier with Philly, Cincinnati, Miami, Jacksonville, and Denver.

Then there's an intriquing list of maybes: Tampa Bay, Baltimore, Chicago, Dallas, Cleveland, and NY Giants. I won't bet on any of them going far but they at least have balance. That's 6 more teams for a total of 16.

Miami's better than the Giants and Cowboys? No chance.

Indy's still a top tier team, though they have been weakened.

 

[SunnyDenmark]

tarot cards and rankings

Miami is ranked too high - I think we all (Pats fans) will agree. Still - don't forget they have a relatively easy schedule. The Jets are rebuilding and Buffalo - that has just been a mess the last few years. The Bills seem so be heading in the wrong direction. So the Fish could get several wins against those two teams. Plus like our beloved Pats - the fish play the weak NFC North this year (Minn, Bears, Packers). The have a tough openening day match vs. the Steelers - which seems to have suddenly gotten alot easier (Ouchhh Ben - all the best). So while I personally won't rank them in the top 10, I do see them in the top half of the league. Once you are in the top half (in my half-crocked way of thinking), then just alittle thing can make or break a team feks. injuries (especially Suzukis) or a bad bounce, missed critical FG (Vanderjerk) or bad officiating (see Seattle). To sum it up - while the Fish are one of my least favorite teams - I can see them being in the hunt for a wildcard and in the top half of the preseason rankings IF Culpepper is ready to go. Cheers from Copenhagen.

 

[PonyExpress]

Food for thought: In SB XXXVIII Vinatieri missed two easy FGs and cost the team 3 points with an awful Kickoff, turning what should have been a signature blowout into a nail biter. Even his game winner was a makeable kick made possible by a tremendous catch and hold by Branch, who happened to have 10 catches for 143 yards and a TD. If Martin Grammatica had been kicking for the Pats in that game, they would have won by 10 points.

 

[primetime]

By the way, what's with all these rankings acting like Will Allen is the next coming of Mike Haynes? He's nowhere near as good as Sam Madison. I love how he adds all kind of "big play ability" according to Gosselin, which I guess would be true if he didn't have the worst hands in the history of the NFL.

All I know is I live in Giants country and my friends thought he was awful.

 

[PromisedLand]

Fans can kick and scream all they want but only in revisionist history (post he left us) is AV just a kicker. He was a rare kicker in that he was acknowledged as a core leader on the team by his HC and teamates. NFL sidelines are littered with seemingly competent kickers who have been given similar opportunities and invariably choked under pressure or less than ideal conditions. Adam was clutch to the point that a young QB knew he didn't have to do it all, he just had to do enough.

BTW Tedy was not the acknowledged leader he is today in 2001. Lawyer was the so called heart and soul leader of the defense. Seymour was a rookie in 2001 (and we won without him in the playoffs in 2004), Rodney wasn't here until 2003. Branch wasn't here in 2001, just like he isn't here today.

You do disrespect Adam by what you say, but that's just typical fanspeak for he left us who needed him. The foundation on which the dynasty was built was anchored by Brady, Belichick and Vinatieri. That's history. Times change and players and programs evolve, so we will probably be OK with a consistently good kicker if we don't struggle too much in locating one. But that doesn't change history.

MoLewis, I generally respect you as a poster and I have said so on this site, but you and I will have to agree to disagree on this. You can kiss Adam's butt all you want, he is still just a kicker who made one remarkable kick under horrible conditions (the Snow Bowl game tieing kick that took the game into overtime) and two ordinary, indoors, fair-weather kicks at the end of Super Bowls that any competent NFL kicker would make most of the time. And in the second instance (SB38) Adam was only one for three, yet his ballwashers wanted to name him game MVP.

I am insulted by your saying I disrespected him by daring to say he is NOT deserving of the label "the big three". THAT is disrepect, sir.

And if you like (and the archives go back far enough), I will be happy to show you my posts where I said that Adam was overvalued BEFORE he left.

 

[flutie2phelan]

Remember back 4 years ago? It was 2002. We were all still zoomed about that most
improbable Super Bowl.
Remember how warming it was to read all the respectful stories ... about that selfless Patriots TEAM?

As fans, we had never been in that situation before.
Since then we have had a lot of respect shown. (Never quite enough, though, of course
... for some of us!)

But i've come to realize ... that the Pats really do much better under a patina of media disbelief
and disdain.
Now i actually "reverse revel" in their disregard and disrespect.