Some scary stats on Pats secondary

[WinstonSmith]

I can’t think of a Patriot going into a season who added more utility to a unit than Bodden. I thought going into preseason that Bodden was one of 3 Pats that they could least afford to lose to injury. He might not be an all star - but his importance to the Pats has been on prominent display over the first 3 games.

 

[condon84]

Nothing to see here.

All is well.

We have young guys.

This year is a rebuilding year for our defense.

Next year, we'll be scary.
















That about sums it up for all the excuses.

 

[captain stone]

I blame it on those horrible drafts from 05 to 09.

To be specific, it was the horrible drafts of 2004, '06, '07 & '08.

And not only are the results for throws outside the numbers bad, but so too are the results for those in the middle of the field, which has been open against us all f**king year long.

The fact that Mayo & Spikes cannot cover NFL-calibre TEs is exacerbated by their dependance on 3rd-string crap like Stinkovich & Banta-Cain't to provide pressure.

Marshall & Fasano will have 15 catches/200 yds combined by halftime.

 

[Marqui]

Pats really need to use a high 1st rounder on an elite pass rushing OLB next draft. Our defenses' future is in Oaklands' hands. I don't know if that's good or bad. :bricks:

 

[Ring 6]

To be specific, it was the horrible drafts of 2004, '06, '07 & '08.

And not only are the results for throws outside the numbers bad, but so too are the results for those in the middle of the field, which has been open against us all f**king year long.

The fact that Mayo & Spikes cannot cover NFL-calibre TEs is exacerbated by their dependance on 3rd-string crap like Stinkovich & Banta-Cain't to provide pressure.

Marshall & Fasano will have 15 catches/200 yds combined by halftime.

It's shameful how much this organization has created its fan base from its God given right to win the SB every year.
They will be lucky to be 2-14 this year.

 

[TB=TD]

It's shameful how much this organization has created its fan base from its God given right to win the SB every year.
They will be lucky to be 2-14 this year.

Three is only a number. Infinite should be the goal.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

It's shameful how much this organization has created its fan base from its God given right to win the SB every year.
They will be lucky to be 2-14 this year.

No, after the Pats won the super bowl in '04, this team had few concerns on both sides of the ball. The only glaring issues with the team were OLB, CB, and then MLB when Bruschi had his stroke and Ted Johnson retired.

6 years later, it's still an issue.

We have such high expectations because when you have arguably the best QB of all time, best coach of all time (it doesn't look like it right now) and had a great core of players, the Pats had it easy to rebuild.

But they're still rebuilding.

 

[Ring 6]

Three is only a number. Infinite should be the goal.

Yeah, I guess the team just became satisfied and gave up trying.
Too bad their goals weren't as high as yours, that would guarantee a SB ever year.

 

[Ring 6]

No, after the Pats won the super bowl in '04, this team had few concerns on both sides of the ball. The only glaring issues with the team were OLB, CB, and then MLB when Bruschi had his stroke and Ted Johnson retired.

6 years later, it's still an issue.

We have such high expectations because when you have arguably the best QB of all time, best coach of all time (it doesn't look like it right now) and had a great core of players, the Pats had it easy to rebuild.

But they're still rebuilding.

Every team is always rebuilding.
From the 2004 SB Brady, Light, Koppen, Neal and Wilfork are the only remaining starters. That means there were 17 starting positions and a whole team of reserves to rebuild up until now.
Along the way, we have won the division every year except the one Brady was out, when we only tied for first, had a 16-0 season, and made the playoffs 4 of 5 seasons.
The defense was 2nd in points scored from 2006-2009 only 15 points behind 1st. That sounds like they did a pretty good job of filling the glaring holes you thought they had.

 

[WhiteWesWelker88]

I am not surprised by these horrendous numbers.


The Secondary will suffer w/ the lack of a rusher on our D...... The QB has more time and completes the play.

 

[Michael]

Outside the numbers hurting Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston



And this is against mediocre to bad passing teams. Frightening.

I definitely didn't need numbers. It's obvious every week.

 

[skinnydog]

Yeah, I guess the team just became satisfied and gave up trying.
Too bad their goals weren't as high as yours, that would guarantee a SB ever year.

Ah, the straw man. No one expected a Superbowl every year. A fourth would've been nice. Don't you understand the window probably closes when Brady retires or, in his late 30's, just isn't that effective anymore? And I think a lockout is likely next year

 

[convertedpatsfan]

The first week of the season was really misleading and set up some unrealistic expectations for this defense. We're re-building, the kids need to play, and they're going to be up and down for a while.

The team we're facing this week knows that better than anyone, as they had to throw rookies Vontae Davis and Sean Smith into the fire due to injuries. Davis had the highest burn percentage amongst AFC East CBs who faced at least 50 passes. Smith fared pretty well in that area, but gave up the most yards per catch in his coverage area. Both look much better this season so far though, and I think you'll notice that on Monday.

I know everyone is down on Butler but just remember how awful we felt about McCourty after the Rams pre-season game. But he was able to turn it around and become our best corner. Butler is similar to Davis, where they were both tremendous athletes and relied on their athleticism more than technique. As Davis studied more film and played more, he got better. But he played way more last season due to injuries than Butler did. I still have high hopes for Butler.

 

[Ring 6]

Ah, the straw man. No one expected a Superbowl every year. A fourth would've been nice. Don't you understand the window probably closes when Brady retires or, in his late 30's, just isn't that effective anymore? And I think a lockout is likely next year

How could my comment be a straw man when the post I was responding to said 3 is no good, and the goal is an infinite number?
Regardless of whether the window closes soon, is already closed or is broken, the success of this era of the franchise is unquestionable.
Certainly I want more, I want a SB every year, but there is a big difference between appreciating the success we, as fans, have been handed, and still wanting more, and to trash everyone involved because of having unrealistic expectations after the fact.
Anyone who can say they exepcted more out of the BB era than we have already gotten, when BB was hired, is lying.
The problem is when every single expectation has been exceeded, fans decide to rip the franchise for the moves they made which have resulted in what we'v gotten...a tremendous amount of success, more than could be expected and a team that is still a contender.
I have no real issue with someone voicing their opinion about the quality of the team. But I have a huge issue picking and choosing decisions and villifying the decision maker who has produced what we've been given, without acknowledging the inordinate amount of success that the team has had.
Here is an example:
There was an article posted by the CHFF moron essentially saying the PAts defense has been easy pickings since 2006. This board, or some posters at least, jumped on that bandwagon. There have been pages and pages of posts about how the system sucks, how positions were neglected, how the defense has been so bad.
And guess what?
From 2006-2009 the Patriots allowed the 2nd fewest points in the NFL (15 more than #1). 22 teams were behind the Patriots every one of those seasons. None were better more years than not. Yet, this board rips into what the defense has done during that time. However, when this happens, it is called 'realistic' while the facts are called 'homerism'.
Somehow this board has adopted the belief that anything negative (even if the facts contradict it) is realistc and anything less than 100% negative is homerism.

 

[Ring 6]

The first week of the season was really misleading and set up some unrealistic expectations for this defense. We're re-building, the kids need to play, and they're going to be up and down for a while.

The team we're facing this week knows that better than anyone, as they had to throw rookies Vontae Davis and Sean Smith into the fire due to injuries. Davis had the highest burn percentage amongst AFC East CBs who faced at least 50 passes. Smith fared pretty well in that area, but gave up the most yards per catch in his coverage area. Both look much better this season so far though, and I think you'll notice that on Monday.

I know everyone is down on Butler but just remember how awful we felt about McCourty after the Rams pre-season game. But he was able to turn it around and become our best corner. Butler is similar to Davis, where they were both tremendous athletes and relied on their athleticism more than technique. As Davis studied more film and played more, he got better. But he played way more last season due to injuries than Butler did. I still have high hopes for Butler.

What happened in week 1 meant nothing in week 2, good or bad. And that continues throughout the season. Rarely are the teams that are best in the first half of the season the best in the second half and the playoffs.Teams evolve. Once, duringour SB years, BB discuss this topic and basically said that the best team in the NFL in week 3 has to improve or it will be a bad team by the end of the year (I am paraphrasing) with the point being that every team improves throughout the season.
The talent level of the players doesnt change much, but there are so many factors that add to the evolution of a team. Experience, players learning technique and the system better, the coaching staff knowing its players better and most of all the way the team executes the plays it wants to run.
Rarely does a team resemble its week 2 version by week 15.
Anything that happened on the field in these 3 games means nothing in the remaining 13. What is known to a degree is the amount of improvement necessary, but beynd that, teams will evolve very differently.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

How could my comment be a straw man when the post I was responding to said 3 is no good, and the goal is an infinite number?
Regardless of whether the window closes soon, is already closed or is broken, the success of this era of the franchise is unquestionable.
Certainly I want more, I want a SB every year, but there is a big difference between appreciating the success we, as fans, have been handed, and still wanting more, and to trash everyone involved because of having unrealistic expectations after the fact.
Anyone who can say they exepcted more out of the BB era than we have already gotten, when BB was hired, is lying.
The problem is when every single expectation has been exceeded, fans decide to rip the franchise for the moves they made which have resulted in what we'v gotten...a tremendous amount of success, more than could be expected and a team that is still a contender.
I have no real issue with someone voicing their opinion about the quality of the team. But I have a huge issue picking and choosing decisions and villifying the decision maker who has produced what we've been given, without acknowledging the inordinate amount of success that the team has had.
Here is an example:
There was an article posted by the CHFF moron essentially saying the PAts defense has been easy pickings since 2006. This board, or some posters at least, jumped on that bandwagon. There have been pages and pages of posts about how the system sucks, how positions were neglected, how the defense has been so bad.
And guess what?
From 2006-2009 the Patriots allowed the 2nd fewest points in the NFL (15 more than #1). 22 teams were behind the Patriots every one of those seasons. None were better more years than not. Yet, this board rips into what the defense has done during that time. However, when this happens, it is called 'realistic' while the facts are called 'homerism'.
Somehow this board has adopted the belief that anything negative (even if the facts contradict it) is realistc and anything less than 100% negative is homerism.

Stats shmats .....I think a lot of Patriot fans already know the Pats ranked high on stat sheets the past few years but when it came down to playing defense at crucial times in the playoffs,those high stat,high ranked defenses have sh!t the bed in do or die playoff games the past few years.

The champion vets got older and eventually left us in the dissaray we are currently in on that side of the ball, our defenses in the recent past and into 2010 seem to lose steam late in games and even today with a much younger group the team still looks weary in the 4th,I really haven't seen this team look energetic and flying around the ball late in the game in quite awhile.

Is it a leadership problem?,bad coaching decisions on defensive plans? or simply a lack of talent in some areas? or something else?

 

[Ring 6]

Stats shmats .....I think a lot of Patriot fans already know the Pats ranked high on stat sheets the past few years but when it came down to playing defense at crucial times in the playoffs,those high stat,high ranked defenses have sh!t the bed in do or die playoff games the past few years.

The champion vets got older and eventually left us in the dissaray we are currently in on that side of the ball, our defenses in the recent past and into 2010 seem to lose steam late in games and even today with a much younger group the team still looks weary in the 4th,I really haven't seen this team look energetic and flying around the ball late in the game in quite awhile.

Is it a leadership problem?,bad coaching decisions on defensive plans? or simply a lack of talent in some areas? or something else?

Points allowed is not a meaningless stat. The defense that allows the fewset points does the best job, regardless of what anecdotal examples you want to give.
During that 4 year period, the team was 4-3 in the playoffs.
They allowed more than 21 points 2 times in those 7 games.

If your standard is perfection, then they fall short, just as every team does.
For some reason, there appears to be a need to defend a team that went 49-15, went to 2 AFCC games, and 1 SB in four years, to its own fans which is ridiculous.
What team set the standard you are looking for in that time period?

 

[convertedpatsfan]

What happened in week 1 meant nothing in week 2, good or bad. And that continues throughout the season. Rarely are the teams that are best in the first half of the season the best in the second half and the playoffs.Teams evolve. Once, duringour SB years, BB discuss this topic and basically said that the best team in the NFL in week 3 has to improve or it will be a bad team by the end of the year (I am paraphrasing) with the point being that every team improves throughout the season.
The talent level of the players doesnt change much, but there are so many factors that add to the evolution of a team. Experience, players learning technique and the system better, the coaching staff knowing its players better and most of all the way the team executes the plays it wants to run.
Rarely does a team resemble its week 2 version by week 15.
Anything that happened on the field in these 3 games means nothing in the remaining 13. What is known to a degree is the amount of improvement necessary, but beynd that, teams will evolve very differently.

I meant in terms of fan expectations, sorry if that was unclear. The week one game made me think we had progressed way beyond what I expected, which is a way of saying my expectations were going to be quite low over the first half of the season due to the inexperience of the kids.

The last few weeks were more or less what I expected. I'm frustrated by the defense, but not necessarily shocked or disappointed. And I expect them to get better as the season progresses. But that week 1 performance gave me such unrealistic hopes.

I'm still very high on Butler. But I'd expect our young defense to continue to struggle for a bit as they gain experience the hard way.