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some Jets reasoning

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by eifmp, Jan 5, 2007.

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  1. eifmp

    eifmp Rookie

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    I must say first that I am a JETS fan...

    I see that people want to talk about how the Jets only beat one team that ended up with a record over .500. (Teams that are 8-8 don't count in my humble opinion because they aren't winners, they're just average.) Well, the Patriots only beat two teams that ended up better than 8-8: the Jets and the Bears. The latter of the two being road weary playing thier third road game in a row.

    Some Pats fans want to talk about the sloppy field conditions that hindered the Patriots in the week 10 game @ Gillette Stadium. My question is: Why would the same field conditions not be a hindrance to the Jets as well? Do the Jets have special cleats or something? You guys lost to the team that was playing better that week that's just the truth.

    "But what about when the playing field was even in Giants Stadium and the Pats won 24-17 in a game where the score wasn't even that close?"

    I'm glad you brought that up...here is my resoning behind why I think the Jets have a good chance to win on sunday:

    Every other team in the playoffs in the AFC had something SET coming into the season:
    Colts: Manning + Harrison + Wayne Passing attack
    Patriots: Brady, Belichick, Dillon, TONS of experience
    Chiefs: Larry Johnson & Trent Green
    Ravens: Dominant defense & Jamal Lewis
    Chargers: LaDanian Tomlinson & Antonio Gates

    But the Jets had a new everything: a rookie Head Coach, Offensive & Defensive Co-ordinators, new 3-4 defense installed, a new offense to learn, mismatched personell, a rehabbing quarterback, no rushing attack, no superstar on either offense or defense, two rookies on the offensive line, only 1 player (Vilma) out of 22 players on the starting offense & defense had been to a pro bowl and he was an alternate. The Jets only pro bowler this year is a freakin kick returner. Not one team, not even the Titans, has improved so much from game 1 to game 16 and I dont care how many "good" teams the Jets played or have beaten. The Jets are a very good team that has a legit chance of coming out of the AFC. But then again so does every other team.
    The Jets team that lost 24-17 in week 2 is not the as good as the Jets team that won 17-14 in Gilette and that Jets team is not as good at the one that'll show up on Sunday. Anyone who has seen both games will agree somewhat with me on this? Will there be a Patriots fan who'll tell me how the Patriots have improved over the season?
  2. borg

    borg Rookie

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    The Pats have scored 104 points in their last three games including a pair of 40 pointers. The offense is peaking and the D line should be healthy on Sunday. The Jets just don't have the offense to outscore this team. Remember, the Pats give up only 14 points a game.
  3. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    I love when Jets fans come in and try and make excuses.

    1) Tom Brady and Chad Pennington were not on the same spots on the field. So, while the entrie field was sloppy as a whole, you can't deny it played a factor. Brady slipped and fell a couple of times because of the field. You want to deny that, it shows your blinging yourself.

    2) The Patriots were without Ty Warren. Arguably the Pats best D-lineman against the run. Richard Seymour didn't play much that game because his Elbow was hurting from being injured the week before. It was James Sanders 1st game as a starter this year. The Pats were without their staring RG. He's back too. I'd mention Rodney, but that scumbag Bobby Wade made sure that Harrison wouldn't be playing this week with his hit at Harrison's knee.

    3) The Jets were coming off a bye week AND the Pats were playing on a short week. Has a lot to do with it.

    How have the Patriots IMPROVED over the season?

    1) Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, Laurence Maroney, and David Thomas are all much more in sync with their QB and the team game plan. Reche Caldwell has been getting open on a regular basis, despite being covered by the other team's #1 CB. Laurence Maroney is lethal as a runner and could break one any time. David Thomas has great hands and runs very good routes. It also seems that he's taken a page out of Graham's book and has become a much better blocker.

    2) The defense has James Sanders in at Strong Safety and he's been learning from the best, Rodney Harrison. He's more than capable to handle things back there.

    3) Tom Brady is finally getting into a rhythm. Something that wasn't there earlier in the season. Its an improvement.

    Now, about your claim that the Jets team that won 17-14 being better than the one that lost 24-17, yes they are better. But I think it is a HUGE stretch to say that they have improved from there and that is why they will beat the Patriots. Especially when you consider the major pieces of the Patriots team that were available at the time.

    Your boast that NO TEAM has improved as much as the Jets from game 1 to game 16 is a bunch of homer BS. But you will sit there and deny it until the cows come home because your green and white glasses won't allow you otherwise. OH, the Titans improved a helluva lot more than the Jets did.
  4. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    2nd ranked Defense.

    Least point allowed in FRANCHISE HISTORY.



    the real thing is this: who cares about stats? I can bring you other stats like Assante Samuel leading the league in INTs.....or crazy things like 1.8 yards per play given up by our D in the red zone ..... till the cows come home...


    but this game will be won on the field. This game will be won by the more focused team. This game will be won by leaders who limit mistakes and pounce on turnovers. WHO CARES ABOUT STATS? Give me the heart of a champion anyday. The last time I looked, the only champions on the Jets roster are former Patriots.


    enjoy the game.
  5. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Since the Jets beat the Pats on 17-14, here is what the Jets have done.

    Jets: 5-2.
    Scored: 139 points (19.9 per game)
    Allowed: 88 points (12.6 points per game)

    Jets 1st 8 games: 4-4
    Scored: 160 points (20 points per game)
    Allowed: 193 points (24.2 points per game)

    Patriots: 6-1
    Scored: 184 points (26.3 points per game)
    Allowed: 106 points (15.1 points per game)

    Pats 1st 8 games: 7-1
    Scored: 187 points (23.4 points per game)
    Allowed: 114 points (14.5 points per game)

    Now, I see one thing that you will try and say is the major difference. And that is that the just almost cut in half their points allowed. Well, that looks great, until you look at WHO the Jets actually playerd in their last 7 games. The Jets played Chicago, Houston, Green Bay, Buffalo, Minnesota, Miami and Oakland. Only Chicago has an offense that has scored better than 20 points a game. After Chicago's offense, the next highest is Green Bay at #22 with 19.1 pts per game. So, forgive me if I am not impressed.
  6. eifmp

    eifmp Rookie

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    You guys all make good points...but...

    Da Bruinz...the titans improvement is over the jets improvement is well taken... and I may be wrong in that regard. You also listed who the jets have played the last eight games. But here is who the pats have played the last 7 games.
    Nov 19 @Green Bay
    Nov 26 Chicago
    Dec 3 Detroit
    Dec 10 @Miami
    Dec 17 Houston
    Dec 24 @Jacksonville
    Dec 31 @Tennessee

    wow what a schedule that is.... oh man that's a toughie. So, maybe you'll forgive me if I am not overly impressed. Yea you beat road weary chicago but got shut out by miami? Yikes? The Pats let Joey Harrington...who played so bad against the Jets he got benched for Cleo Lemon...outplay Tom Brady!!!! Yikes!!!

    And yea brady did slip on the field..but your "not on the same spots on the field" excuse is lame. When the Pats played the Raiders in the '01 playoffs it was a freakin blizzard. No Raider used the sloppy field excuse. Neither the Colts in '03 when it was a mess in Gillette. So I don't want to hear it.

    Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, Laurence Maroney, and David Thomas are all good recievers but the Jets have better recievers. Are you telling me you'd rather have Caldwell than Coles? Caldwell's stats aren't as good as Cotchery's? And you guys have the BETTER quarterback.

    Holy Diver... would you put Assante Samuel, as great as he is...one on one with Coles for the entire game? I'm not so sure he's a shutdown yet... soon maybe.

    Listen...either team can win this sunday, I just think it'll happen to be the Jets who win.
    -Chris
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Huh ?

    Chicago ? @Miami, @Jax, @Ten ? Sure that's a viable schedule.

    The reality is the Patriots are piquing right now. Since the Miami debacle they've won 104-61 and Jacksonville was the best home team in the league at the time and Tennessee had won 6 in a row. This is despite holding out Wilfork and Maroney longer than maybe they needed to. And getting Watson back.

    Have we improved ? Man, the strongest part of our defense was killed last time. Warren was out. Seymour was hurt and playing the wrong side. Take out 2/3 of our DL and, yes, we're hurt.

    Other than Harrison being out the team is primed and ready to go. Can it beat SD and Balt back to back on the road ? I don't know. But I know damn well it will beat The Jest. Maroney and Dillon are fresh. Brady hasn't thrown an INT in 3 games. The WR are getting better (but still a weakness overall). The TE are a strong pair whichever 2 we have in.

    Oh well, enjoy your last 36 hours of trash talking, then look forward to next year. Of course, we're the ones with two #1s this year.
  8. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    I'd go a step further and put Samuel and Hobbs on Coles and Cotchery - then I'd let loose with a ruthless pass rush.
  9. JetsWillRule

    JetsWillRule Rookie

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    Brady slipped a few times? I remeber him being helped to the muddy ground by some green and white. Pennington looked pretty clean after that mud bowl and Brady looked like.. well mud.

    all this aside, it's a good thing we play the game instead of duking it out on partesan forum.

    I think the Jets will do better then the spread - and with some key turn overs and special team action, could win. I don't think it will be lopsided. Magenius is to smart for that - and knows the pats system.

    Either way, the Pats dynasty is over. :bricks:

    The new kid will lead the AFC east next year. But don't feel bad Pats fans, your team will still be superior to the leaderless dolphins and LOSSMan Bills.
  10. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Totally agree. Very fair, and your best point.
  11. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    There's no reason to actually believe that. The Patriots core is just as young as that of The Jest. And, yes, we're the ones with two #1s next year.
  12. JetsWillRule

    JetsWillRule Rookie

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    How many #1 picks have made an impact - usually the best players are deeper in the draft....
  13. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Actually, no they aren't. Maybe people tend to notice the surprise successes from later and the surprise failures from earlier, but only a fool would thing "the best players are deeper in the draft".
  14. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    I'm sure there will be plenty. I'm too lazy, but if your argument is that the Patriots HAVEN'T improved over the season, you're going to get smoked here. The rest of your post is decent and fair, though.
  15. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Richard Seymour, Daniel Graham, Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, Ben Watson, Logan Mankins and Lawrence Maroney say hi. Good Lord.
  16. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    And except for, probably, Watson, they'll all be saying "hi" on Sunday too :)
  17. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    Yeah, but how many of those guys really made an impact?
  18. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    I almost started to develop a better image of Jest fans. eifmp, you come to debate with spirited dialog and facts. And yet you're a Jest fan:confused:

    But then I read the posts of that troll who shall remain nameless....:trolls:

    eifmp, the Jest out-hussled, out played and outcoached a very injured and taped together Pats team in November. Do NOT expect that to happen again. BB will NOT be outcoached by Mangina on Sunday. The D, minus Rodney is back and healthy. The offense has finally jelled. If you had visited here in November, you would have read that it was commonly believed that the Pats were not game planning the way they normally do in order to get work in and coordination with the new crop of receivers. The thought was how would they play in December.....
  19. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Was that a rhetorical question ?
  20. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    It won't happen. BB is ultra conservative especially in the playoffs. The essence of bend but don't break is make the oppostion go through a 9 play drive to earn points and they get only 3. There is too much of a chance for a big play for an all out blitz.
  21. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    Joke. Sorry if it didn't come across.
  22. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Man. You have no concept, do you?

    1) The Titans were the hottest team in the LEAGUE when we faced them, having won 7 in a row.

    2) I love your BS claim of Chicago being road weary.

    3) Miami is always tough because they are a division rival. But, of course, you know that. So is Buffalo.

    4) Jacksonville is another team on the rise.

    Hell, lets just look at the overall records of the teams.
    Chicago - 13-3
    Green Bay - 8-8
    Detroit - 3-13
    Miami - 6-10
    Houston - 6-10
    Jacksonville - 8-8
    Tennessee - 8-8
    Buffalo - 7-9
    Minnesota - 6-10
    Oakland 2-14

    The common opponents over the last 7 games were GB, Chi, MIA, and Hou.

    The Pats 3 remaining opponents had a record of 19-29.
    The Jets 3 remaining opponents had a record of 15-33.

    Neither case is good, and both teams went 3-1 agaist the common opponents in that span.

    Also, the Field at Gillette in 03 wasn't a mess. But you wouldn't know that. It was hard as a rock.

    As for the Raider game in 01, you're right, they didn't use the excuse that the field was a mess. Because the field wasn't a mess. It had SNOW on it. OH, and it wasn't even the SAME FIELD. At least know wtf you are talking about if you are going to make a rebuttle.

    The Jets may have better receivers, but their QB isn't in the same league as Brady, no matter how much you Jets fans want to tout him as being so.
    Now, as to your other stupidity. Yes, it is stupidity first of all. Second of all, you didn't ask me originally who I would rather have. You asked what the improvement were. I told you what they were. Just because the Pats were already that much farther ahead of the Jets doesn't mean that the Pats didn't improve. And it also doesn't mean that the Jets big improvements mean all that much. They had that much farther to go to begin with.

    Yes, I know you think the Jests will win. That's all fine and dandy. But don't come in here touting how "great" the Jests are when they aren't that great.
  23. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    WOW. You are deluded. The dynasty isn't over. The Pats have won their 5th division title in 6 years and are starting to peak as they enter the play-offs.

    And, nimrod, the reason the Pats didn't get a good pass rush is that 2 of our 3 starting D-linemen either weren't playing (Warren) or were playing out of position and attempting to play through an injury (Seymour).

    And, I suggest you go back and watch the game because 2 of the sacks were because Brady slipped and fell without a Jet touching him.
  24. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Seymour, Warren, Watson, Graham, Wilfork, Maroney, Mankins. Those are the 7 1st round picks that the Patriots have made under Belichick. ALL of them had big impacts, with Warren, Graham, and Watson taking a year longer to make it so.

    OH, the Patriots do pretty well deeper in the draft also.
  25. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    I know you're too knowledgeable to actually ask the question you did but it kind of read as a real question :eek:
  26. PatsSteve1

    PatsSteve1 Rookie

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    * Warren, Wilfork, Seymour, Watson, Marooney, Mankins and Graham were all round 1 picks.
  27. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    Last 2 opponents:

    15 Sun, Dec 17 Houston W 40-7 -12 10-4 Brady 109 Dillon 61 Faulk 46
    16 Sun, Dec 24 at Jacksonville W 24-21 2½ 11-4 Brady 249 Maroney 48 Thomas 83
    17 Sun, Dec 31 at Tennessee W 40-23 NL 12-4 Brady 225 Maroney 73 Caldwell 134



    Detroit isn't in the mix.

    Combined record is better
  28. PatsFanInVa

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    First, I want to say, and sincerely, you guys enjoy the hell out of this week! Who among us doesn't remember the one-appearance-in-three-years types of seasons? Seriously folks... why begrudge the fine city of NY their moment in the football sun?

    Okay, second point: statistically, roster-wise, health-wise, experience-wise, etc., you'd be nuts to pick the Jets to win this game. However, as has been pointed out, they play the game on Sunday... not in a computer, not in a health clinic where they check who's most injured, on a football field.

    To wax philosophical: I'm glad we can theoretically lose Sunday. Otherwise it would all be boring as hell, not to mention not what the NFL is all about. We CAN lose this game. I feel pretty good about winning it, of course; I think that's by far the more likely outcome. But the triumphalism is a little premature. SOMEBODY goes home Sunday feeling like crap... I do believe it will be the Jets. But until then, both teams are in the same position as Schrodinger's cat - half alive, and half dead.

    Oh and by the way, monkies COULD theoretically fly out of my *****.

    Just had to throw that in.

    PFnV
  29. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    Firstly...if all that you remember is green and white and not Brady slipping..you have a great imagaination...keep that in your memories..you MAY NOT see that all that much tomorrow... but dream all u want to..delirious dreams are just fine.. The Jets MAY do better...they may not...
    and yes they COULD win..there is no question about that..and u are right they WILL need some special team plays AND turnovers to do that..I think that your admitting that you will need that you ARE basically saying that the Patriots are far better and that you NEED the breaks to win... VERY true..no turnovers, no ST break..the Jets are toast!!! So Mangina is going to go out and tackle players and stop the Pats from running it up?? the fat pieman can't do CRAP, my friend... To say the dynasty is over just shows u are smoking some good wedd. DREAM on!! you aren't the first or last to say that..Mangina is this year's Saban...mark those words!!
  30. eifmp

    eifmp Rookie

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    Dont know why some of you don't take the Jets seriously enough, but the Patriots do, and I don't think it's all just political correctness.

    The primary running backs for the upcoming game (Cedric Houston & Leon Washington) were not the primary backs the Jets used in the first two games (Barlow & Blaylock). While not spectacular, they are a part of the Jets offense that is unusual to the Patriots.

    I've heard things like: If the Jets and Patriots both play flawless games the Patriots should win. Well that is the most stupid thing I have heard in a while. Part of playing a flawless game is preventing the other team from playng flawless. Impossible for two teams to be flawless.

    In the first Jets/Pats game the Patriots defensive line dominated the line of scrimmage the whole game and it was very embarrasing. Two things that I take into consideration when I think about that game:

    Veteran & talented defensive line together for 3 years vs Newly put together offensive line with minimal cohesion with two rookies playing in thier second game missing key offensive lineman Pete Kendall...

    Of course the Patriots would win that matchup...but in the second game the Pats could only manage one sack in the muck and slop. I just want to illiustrate to some patriots fans a part of the improvement I am referring to about the Jets. 1st game 4 sacks...2nd game 1 sack and I don't want to hear the Ty Warren was absent stuff. Was he the defensive player of the month in the AFC? Yes... is he Aaron Schobel? No! No way is Ty Warren a three sack diffrerence maker.

    Another think I noticed in the first game: on a couple of pass plays that Tom Teriffic made against the jets, the secondary looked confused and were pointing fingers at each other and players were WIDE OPEN. Blown coverages and uncovered players and I could go on an on and on.

    There was none of that in the second game. The recievers were well covered in that game and most of Brady's passing yards came in garbage time (damn prevent defense). The real scary part: All the sacks on Brady were by defensive lineman and weren't all on the blitzes. If the d-linemen get pressure again like that...forget it. I don't know if any offensive lineman were missing from that second game who could have made a difference but....

    The Jets were one of three teams (broncos & dolphins) that prevented the Patriots from getting in the endzone twice in a game. I guess that means the defense is prettyy good no matter what type of field it is nor who we play.

    GO JETS
    -Chris
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