some Jets reasoning

[averywhitehall]

I must say first that I am a JETS fan...

I see that people want to talk about how the Jets only beat one team that ended up with a record over .500. (Teams that are 8-8 don't count in my humble opinion because they aren't winners, they're just average.) Well, the Patriots only beat two teams that ended up better than 8-8: the Jets and the Bears. The latter of the two being road weary playing thier third road game in a row.

Some Pats fans want to talk about the sloppy field conditions that hindered the Patriots in the week 10 game @ Gillette Stadium. My question is: Why would the same field conditions not be a hindrance to the Jets as well? Do the Jets have special cleats or something? You guys lost to the team that was playing better that week that's just the truth.

"But what about when the playing field was even in Giants Stadium and the Pats won 24-17 in a game where the score wasn't even that close?"

I'm glad you brought that up...here is my resoning behind why I think the Jets have a good chance to win on sunday:

Every other team in the playoffs in the AFC had something SET coming into the season:
Colts: Manning + Harrison + Wayne Passing attack
Patriots: Brady, Belichick, Dillon, TONS of experience
Chiefs: Larry Johnson & Trent Green
Ravens: Dominant defense & Jamal Lewis
Chargers: LaDanian Tomlinson & Antonio Gates

But the Jets had a new everything: a rookie Head Coach, Offensive & Defensive Co-ordinators, new 3-4 defense installed, a new offense to learn, mismatched personell, a rehabbing quarterback, no rushing attack, no superstar on either offense or defense, two rookies on the offensive line, only 1 player (Vilma) out of 22 players on the starting offense & defense had been to a pro bowl and he was an alternate. The Jets only pro bowler this year is a freakin kick returner. Not one team, not even the Titans, has improved so much from game 1 to game 16 and I dont care how many "good" teams the Jets played or have beaten. The Jets are a very good team that has a legit chance of coming out of the AFC. But then again so does every other team.
The Jets team that lost 24-17 in week 2 is not the as good as the Jets team that won 17-14 in Gilette and that Jets team is not as good at the one that'll show up on Sunday. Anyone who has seen both games will agree somewhat with me on this? Will there be a Patriots fan who'll tell me how the Patriots have improved over the season?

 

[borg]

The Pats have scored 104 points in their last three games including a pair of 40 pointers. The offense is peaking and the D line should be healthy on Sunday. The Jets just don't have the offense to outscore this team. Remember, the Pats give up only 14 points a game.

 

[DaBruinz]

I must say first that I am a JETS fan...

I see that people want to talk about how the Jets only beat one team that ended up with a record over .500. (Teams that are 8-8 don't count in my humble opinion because they aren't winners, they're just average.) Well, the Patriots only beat two teams that ended up better than 8-8: the Jets and the Bears. The latter of the two being road weary playing thier third road game in a row.

Some Pats fans want to talk about the sloppy field conditions that hindered the Patriots in the week 10 game @ Gillette Stadium. My question is: Why would the same field conditions not be a hindrance to the Jets as well? Do the Jets have special cleats or something? You guys lost to the team that was playing better that week that's just the truth.

I love when Jets fans come in and try and make excuses.

1) Tom Brady and Chad Pennington were not on the same spots on the field. So, while the entrie field was sloppy as a whole, you can't deny it played a factor. Brady slipped and fell a couple of times because of the field. You want to deny that, it shows your blinging yourself.

2) The Patriots were without Ty Warren. Arguably the Pats best D-lineman against the run. Richard Seymour didn't play much that game because his Elbow was hurting from being injured the week before. It was James Sanders 1st game as a starter this year. The Pats were without their staring RG. He's back too. I'd mention Rodney, but that scumbag Bobby Wade made sure that Harrison wouldn't be playing this week with his hit at Harrison's knee.

3) The Jets were coming off a bye week AND the Pats were playing on a short week. Has a lot to do with it.

"But what about when the playing field was even in Giants Stadium and the Pats won 24-17 in a game where the score wasn't even that close?"

I'm glad you brought that up...here is my resoning behind why I think the Jets have a good chance to win on sunday:

Every other team in the playoffs in the AFC had something SET coming into the season:
Colts: Manning + Harrison + Wayne Passing attack
Patriots: Brady, Belichick, Dillon, TONS of experience
Chiefs: Larry Johnson & Trent Green
Ravens: Dominant defense & Jamal Lewis
Chargers: LaDanian Tomlinson & Antonio Gates

But the Jets had a new everything: a rookie Head Coach, Offensive & Defensive Co-ordinators, new 3-4 defense installed, a new offense to learn, mismatched personell, a rehabbing quarterback, no rushing attack, no superstar on either offense or defense, two rookies on the offensive line, only 1 player (Vilma) out of 22 players on the starting offense & defense had been to a pro bowl and he was an alternate. The Jets only pro bowler this year is a freakin kick returner. Not one team, not even the Titans, has improved so much from game 1 to game 16 and I dont care how many "good" teams the Jets played or have beaten. The Jets are a very good team that has a legit chance of coming out of the AFC. But then again so does every other team.
The Jets team that lost 24-17 in week 2 is not the as good as the Jets team that won 17-14 in Gilette and that Jets team is not as good at the one that'll show up on Sunday. Anyone who has seen both games will agree somewhat with me on this? Will there be a Patriots fan who'll tell me how the Patriots have improved over the season?

How have the Patriots IMPROVED over the season?

1) Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, Laurence Maroney, and David Thomas are all much more in sync with their QB and the team game plan. Reche Caldwell has been getting open on a regular basis, despite being covered by the other team's #1 CB. Laurence Maroney is lethal as a runner and could break one any time. David Thomas has great hands and runs very good routes. It also seems that he's taken a page out of Graham's book and has become a much better blocker.

2) The defense has James Sanders in at Strong Safety and he's been learning from the best, Rodney Harrison. He's more than capable to handle things back there.

3) Tom Brady is finally getting into a rhythm. Something that wasn't there earlier in the season. Its an improvement.

Now, about your claim that the Jets team that won 17-14 being better than the one that lost 24-17, yes they are better. But I think it is a HUGE stretch to say that they have improved from there and that is why they will beat the Patriots. Especially when you consider the major pieces of the Patriots team that were available at the time.

Your boast that NO TEAM has improved as much as the Jets from game 1 to game 16 is a bunch of homer BS. But you will sit there and deny it until the cows come home because your green and white glasses won't allow you otherwise. OH, the Titans improved a helluva lot more than the Jets did.

 

[Holy Diver]

2nd ranked Defense.

Least point allowed in FRANCHISE HISTORY.



the real thing is this: who cares about stats? I can bring you other stats like Assante Samuel leading the league in INTs.....or crazy things like 1.8 yards per play given up by our D in the red zone ..... till the cows come home...


but this game will be won on the field. This game will be won by the more focused team. This game will be won by leaders who limit mistakes and pounce on turnovers. WHO CARES ABOUT STATS? Give me the heart of a champion anyday. The last time I looked, the only champions on the Jets roster are former Patriots.


enjoy the game.

 

[DaBruinz]

Since the Jets beat the Pats on 17-14, here is what the Jets have done.

Jets: 5-2.
Scored: 139 points (19.9 per game)
Allowed: 88 points (12.6 points per game)

Jets 1st 8 games: 4-4
Scored: 160 points (20 points per game)
Allowed: 193 points (24.2 points per game)

Patriots: 6-1
Scored: 184 points (26.3 points per game)
Allowed: 106 points (15.1 points per game)

Pats 1st 8 games: 7-1
Scored: 187 points (23.4 points per game)
Allowed: 114 points (14.5 points per game)

Now, I see one thing that you will try and say is the major difference. And that is that the just almost cut in half their points allowed. Well, that looks great, until you look at WHO the Jets actually playerd in their last 7 games. The Jets played Chicago, Houston, Green Bay, Buffalo, Minnesota, Miami and Oakland. Only Chicago has an offense that has scored better than 20 points a game. After Chicago's offense, the next highest is Green Bay at #22 with 19.1 pts per game. So, forgive me if I am not impressed.

 

[averywhitehall]

You guys all make good points...but...

Da Bruinz...the titans improvement is over the jets improvement is well taken... and I may be wrong in that regard. You also listed who the jets have played the last eight games. But here is who the pats have played the last 7 games.
Nov 19 @Green Bay
Nov 26 Chicago
Dec 3 Detroit
Dec 10 @Miami
Dec 17 Houston
Dec 24 @Jacksonville
Dec 31 @Tennessee

wow what a schedule that is.... oh man that's a toughie. So, maybe you'll forgive me if I am not overly impressed. Yea you beat road weary chicago but got shut out by miami? Yikes? The Pats let Joey Harrington...who played so bad against the Jets he got benched for Cleo Lemon...outplay Tom Brady!!!! Yikes!!!

And yea brady did slip on the field..but your "not on the same spots on the field" excuse is lame. When the Pats played the Raiders in the '01 playoffs it was a freakin blizzard. No Raider used the sloppy field excuse. Neither the Colts in '03 when it was a mess in Gillette. So I don't want to hear it.

Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, Laurence Maroney, and David Thomas are all good recievers but the Jets have better recievers. Are you telling me you'd rather have Caldwell than Coles? Caldwell's stats aren't as good as Cotchery's? And you guys have the BETTER quarterback.

Holy Diver... would you put Assante Samuel, as great as he is...one on one with Coles for the entire game? I'm not so sure he's a shutdown yet... soon maybe.

Listen...either team can win this sunday, I just think it'll happen to be the Jets who win.
-Chris

 

[BelichickFan]

Nov 19 @Green Bay
Nov 26 Chicago
Dec 3 Detroit
Dec 10 @Miami
Dec 17 Houston
Dec 24 @Jacksonville
Dec 31 @Tennessee

wow what a schedule that is.... oh man that's a toughie. So, maybe you'll forgive me if I am not overly impressed.

Huh ?

Chicago ? @Miami, @Jax, @Ten ? Sure that's a viable schedule.

The reality is the Patriots are piquing right now. Since the Miami debacle they've won 104-61 and Jacksonville was the best home team in the league at the time and Tennessee had won 6 in a row. This is despite holding out Wilfork and Maroney longer than maybe they needed to. And getting Watson back.

Have we improved ? Man, the strongest part of our defense was killed last time. Warren was out. Seymour was hurt and playing the wrong side. Take out 2/3 of our DL and, yes, we're hurt.

Other than Harrison being out the team is primed and ready to go. Can it beat SD and Balt back to back on the road ? I don't know. But I know damn well it will beat The Jest. Maroney and Dillon are fresh. Brady hasn't thrown an INT in 3 games. The WR are getting better (but still a weakness overall). The TE are a strong pair whichever 2 we have in.

Oh well, enjoy your last 36 hours of trash talking, then look forward to next year. Of course, we're the ones with two #1s this year.

 

[BelichickFan]

Holy Diver... would you put Assante Samuel, as great as he is...one on one with Coles for the entire game? I'm not so sure he's a shutdown yet... soon maybe.

I'd go a step further and put Samuel and Hobbs on Coles and Cotchery - then I'd let loose with a ruthless pass rush.

 

[JetsWillRule]

Brady slipped a few times? I remeber him being helped to the muddy ground by some green and white. Pennington looked pretty clean after that mud bowl and Brady looked like.. well mud.

all this aside, it's a good thing we play the game instead of duking it out on partesan forum.

I think the Jets will do better then the spread - and with some key turn overs and special team action, could win. I don't think it will be lopsided. Magenius is to smart for that - and knows the pats system.

Either way, the Pats dynasty is over. :bricks:

The new kid will lead the AFC east next year. But don't feel bad Pats fans, your team will still be superior to the leaderless dolphins and LOSSMan Bills.

 

[patsox23]

Some Pats fans want to talk about the sloppy field conditions that hindered the Patriots in the week 10 game @ Gillette Stadium. My question is: Why would the same field conditions not be a hindrance to the Jets as well? Do the Jets have special cleats or something? You guys lost to the team that was playing better that week that's just the truth.

Totally agree. Very fair, and your best point.

 

[BelichickFan]

Either way, the Pats dynasty is over. :bricks:

The new kid will lead the AFC east next year.

There's no reason to actually believe that. The Patriots core is just as young as that of The Jest. And, yes, we're the ones with two #1s next year.

 

[JetsWillRule]

How many #1 picks have made an impact - usually the best players are deeper in the draft....

 

[BelichickFan]

How many #1 picks have made an impact - usually the best players are deeper in the draft....

Actually, no they aren't. Maybe people tend to notice the surprise successes from later and the surprise failures from earlier, but only a fool would thing "the best players are deeper in the draft".

 

[patsox23]

Will there be a Patriots fan who'll tell me how the Patriots have improved over the season?

I'm sure there will be plenty. I'm too lazy, but if your argument is that the Patriots HAVEN'T improved over the season, you're going to get smoked here. The rest of your post is decent and fair, though.

 

[patsox23]

How many #1 picks have made an impact - usually the best players are deeper in the draft....

Richard Seymour, Daniel Graham, Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, Ben Watson, Logan Mankins and Lawrence Maroney say hi. Good Lord.

 

[BelichickFan]

Richard Seymour, Daniel Graham, Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, Ben Watson, Logan Mankins and Lawrence Maroney say hi. Good Lord.

And except for, probably, Watson, they'll all be saying "hi" on Sunday too

 

[Oswlek]

Richard Seymour, Daniel Graham, Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, Ben Watson, Logan Mankins and Lawrence Maroney say hi. Good Lord.

Yeah, but how many of those guys really made an impact?

 

[shirtsleeve]

I almost started to develop a better image of Jest fans. eifmp, you come to debate with spirited dialog and facts. And yet you're a Jest fan

But then I read the posts of that troll who shall remain nameless....:trolls:

eifmp, the Jest out-hussled, out played and outcoached a very injured and taped together Pats team in November. Do NOT expect that to happen again. BB will NOT be outcoached by Mangina on Sunday. The D, minus Rodney is back and healthy. The offense has finally jelled. If you had visited here in November, you would have read that it was commonly believed that the Pats were not game planning the way they normally do in order to get work in and coordination with the new crop of receivers. The thought was how would they play in December.....

 

[BelichickFan]

Yeah, but how many of those guys really made an impact?

Was that a rhetorical question ?

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I'd go a step further and put Samuel and Hobbs on Coles and Cotchery - then I'd let loose with a ruthless pass rush.

It won't happen. BB is ultra conservative especially in the playoffs. The essence of bend but don't break is make the oppostion go through a 9 play drive to earn points and they get only 3. There is too much of a chance for a big play for an all out blitz.