Solder and McCourty?

[Miguel]

Of course not. Though, I'm not sure how that's relevant?

Exactly. McCourty's extension will not be based on what he did for the Patriots in 2010/2011 but what they think that he will do for them in the future.

 

[Spiral]

Guy just has a hatred hard-on for McCourty, pay him no mind.

The fact that McCourty is considered by a lot of the national sports media as a top safety says all you need to know. National sports media doesn't fluff Patriot players if they aren't good.

What the national sports media thinks isn't important to the Patriots. Brandon Meriweather and Lawyer Milloy will both selected to the pro bowl, and then let go before the start of the next season.

 

[Spiral]

Exactly. McCourty's extension will not be based on what he did for the Patriots in 2010/2011 but what they think that he will do for them in the future.

Yes, I quite agree. My point is that you can't assume that McCourty's performance will improve from one year to the next. It hasn't.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes, I quite agree. My point is that you can't assume that McCourty's performance will improve from one year to the next. It hasn't.

You seem to be looking for a SS. The Patriots weren't. They've wanted McCourty to be a centerfielder.

 

[JackBauer]

Yes, I quite agree. My point is that you can't assume that McCourty's performance will improve from one year to the next. It hasn't.

You'd have a point were it not that his performance at safety has been entirely consistent.

 

[JMC00]

What the national sports media thinks isn't important to the Patriots. Brandon Meriweather and Lawyer Milloy will both selected to the pro bowl, and then let go before the start of the next season.

Never have heard the national media consider Brandon Merriweather a top safety. Also national media doesn't pick the Pro Bowl.

Milloy was released because he refused to take a paycut and they had Harrison.
History shows the Pats made the right decision. Harrison was an All-Pro in '03 and '04 and the Pats won two SB

 

[supafly]

I don't think he has any position flexibility. He's playing FS because he was terrible at CB in 2012 and for the first part of 2013. His poor play at CB was one of the main reasons why the Patriots traded for Talib.

That actually isn't true at all.

McCourty switched between CB and S in subpackages just this past year in a couple/few games that were pointed out here and in the media articles. I know that MIA was one of them, but I don't remember which one. I want to say the 1st matchup, but I could be wrong.

We all saw him give us a decent chance at winning the last SB46 by doing the exact same thing was a rag-tag group in the secondary just as well. McCourty's versatility, particularly in the postseason was "the" reason why our 2011 secondary got as far as it did with no talent whatsoever.

On top of that, the want/need for Talib had just as much, if not more to do with our horrible play and options at the S position in 2012 vs. blaming DMcC.

 

[JMC00]

On top of that, the want/need for Talib had just as much, if not more to do with our horrible play and options at the S position in 2012 vs. blaming DMcC.

Yep.


Had there been a very good safety available at the trade deadline for a 4th round pick maybe Belichick trades for a safety.

 

[Spiral]

You seem to be looking for a SS. The Patriots weren't. They've wanted McCourty to be a centerfielder.

At 195 lbs, he'll never be a SS.

If the Patriots want their FS to play deep and be a centerfielder, as you say, is that position really worth $8-9M a year?

 

[JMC00]

McCoury making an AAV of $8m would be $3m more than he is making this year.

Yes it is worth it.

6 years/$48m ($23m guaranteed)

 

[JackBauer]

At 195 lbs, he'll never be a SS.

If the Patriots want their FS to play deep and be a centerfielder, as you say, is that position really worth $8-9M a year?

The market says yes.

 

[pctronics0072]

I think we can all agree that 2011 was Dmac's worst year. Look at the safeties we had that year. From Wiki:

Defensive backs
24 Kyle Arrington CB
31 Sergio Brown FS
25 Patrick Chung FS/SS
44 James Ihedigbo SS
23 Nate Jones CB/FS
32 Devin McCourty CB/FS
27 Antwaun Molden CB
29 Sterling Moore CB/FS
41 Malcolm Williams CB

Who exactly in that list at safety scares an offense? No one? The way I see it, they lost the better safeties they had in 2010 that allowed DMac to take some chances knowing he had help over the top. Therefore, in 2011 he had to play more of a hybrid role which he is not really good at. I see him as a great safety and a above average corner, but a bad hybrid.

 

[Deus Irae]

At 195 lbs, he'll never be a SS.

If the Patriots want their FS to play deep and be a centerfielder, as you say, is that position really worth $8-9M a year?

Whether he's worth $8m a year or not, my point was about your complaints regarding him. You're judging him as if he were supposed to be a SS. That's not the role he's been playing. We don't judge Brady because he's a lousy cornerback. Let's not grade McCourty on the things he's not being asked to do either.

McCourty's a guy who doesn't belong at corner because, too often, he loses his man when he flips and turns. That's not a problem when he plays safety. There, he keeps the play in front of him and uses his ability to range with general success.

 

[Spiral]

Whether he's worth $8m a year or not, my point was about your complaints regarding him. You're judging him as if he were supposed to be a SS. That's not the role he's been playing. We don't judge Brady because he's a lousy cornerback. Let's not grade McCourty on the things he's not being asked to do either.

McCourty's a guy who doesn't belong at corner because, too often, he loses his man when he flips and turns. That's not a problem when he plays safety. There, he keeps the play in front of him and uses his ability to range with general success.

Agree 100% with your assessment of him as a corner. But I'm not trying to judge him as a SS--he's not a hitter. As just about everyone on this thread has said, he's a centerfielder. My point is, why pay $8M or $9M for someone to do that job? There's no value there, and the Patriots are all about value. You could get a Charles Woodson, a Champ Bailey or some other decent corner who's lost half a step to come in and play that position for far less money. Let me put it this way--McCourty at whatever his new contract is (say $8-$9M), plus a veteran JAG defensive end would be around $10-$11M. For $10-11M in 2015, you could have next year's Jared Allen (whoever that will be), plus some veteran corner to play centerfield. I'll pay the money to the guy who can get to the QB, and take my chances at FS.

 

[Deus Irae]

Agree 100% with your assessment of him as a corner. But I'm not trying to judge him as a SS--he's not a hitter. As just about everyone on this thread has said, he's a centerfielder. My point is, why pay $8M or $9M for someone to do that job? There's no value there, and the Patriots are all about value.

So your point is an inaccurate statement about value? There is obviously value in paying top FS money in that range, because that's the new market point.

You could get a Charles Woodson, a Champ Bailey or some other decent corner who's lost half a step to come in and play that position for far less money. Let me put it this way--McCourty at whatever his new contract is (say $8-$9M), plus a veteran JAG defensive end would be around $10-$11M. For $10-11M in 2015, you could have next year's Jared Allen (whoever that will be), plus some veteran corner to play centerfield. I'll pay the money to the guy who can get to the QB, and take my chances at FS.

That is the kind of thinking that you can use at every position, and for every player making decent money:

"You can cut Brady, bring in a JAG for a couple of million, and sign pass rushers!"

At some point, you have to accept that better players cost more money after their rookie deals.

 

[Spiral]

That is the kind of thinking that you can use at every position, and for every player making decent money:

"You can cut Brady, bring in a JAG for a couple of million, and sign pass rushers!"

At some point, you have to accept that better players cost more money after their rookie deals.

If you cut Brady and signed a great pass rusher, you'd be saying that a great pass rusher has more value than a great QB. In most instances, that would be a bad value judgment. My point is that a good pass rusher has more value than a centerfielder-type FS.

 

[mgteich]

The market matters, not our personal opinions. And yes, stud DE/OLB pass-rushers earn more than stud free safeties.

If you cut Brady and signed a great pass rusher, you'd be saying that a great pass rusher has more value than a great QB. In most instances, that would be a bad value judgment. My point is that a good pass rusher has more value than a centerfielder-type FS.

 

[Dexter]

From Mike Reiss chat:

Do you see Devin McCourty getting an extension this offseason?

Yes. And if not this offseason, during the regular season. Just a matter of "when" not "if" IMO, unless there is simply a difference of opinion on value that leads to a stalemate.
Chat: Chat with Mike Reiss - SportsNation - ESPN

 

[Marinlik]

Agree 100% with your assessment of him as a corner. But I'm not trying to judge him as a SS--he's not a hitter. As just about everyone on this thread has said, he's a centerfielder. My point is, why pay $8M or $9M for someone to do that job? There's no value there, and the Patriots are all about value. You could get a Charles Woodson, a Champ Bailey or some other decent corner who's lost half a step to come in and play that position for far less money. Let me put it this way--McCourty at whatever his new contract is (say $8-$9M), plus a veteran JAG defensive end would be around $10-$11M. For $10-11M in 2015, you could have next year's Jared Allen (whoever that will be), plus some veteran corner to play centerfield. I'll pay the money to the guy who can get to the QB, and take my chances at FS.

You talk about FS as if it was something that everyone can play and be equally good at. That's not true at all. A good FS forces the offense to think twice before going deep. There are loads of value in a FS that can make sure that the offense doesn't want to go over the middle.

 

[JackBauer]

From Mike Reiss chat:

That's been my reading all along. BB found the guy he's been looking for since...well...Geno, I guess. No way he lets him get away.