So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 2010..

[patsfan-1982]

Re: So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 20

we all redy have fred taylor, to fill the old injury prone. spot on this team.



the pats need to draft a power back. maroney. and a rookie is all this team needs they are only going to have 20 to 25 att. in the running game any ways so no reason to have 4 or 5 RB's on the team.

 

[neuronet]

Re: So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 20

I could consider our needs like this, in order of importance...

1. O-Line
2. WR
3. RB

If we go into 2010 with the same line-up on the right side of the O-Line, Brady will not make it through the season. You can give him a WR corps of Moss, Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, and Wes Welker and it won't matter if he's getting killed while taking the third step in his drop back.

Say it brother. Nail. on. head.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 20

How isnt WR our greatest need on offense right now? Besides the pass rush it is the biggest need on the team. We only have 1 really proven WR on the roster to start the season in Moss. Welker will be lucky to be ready for the opener and Edelman should be around but its tough to already tag him as the teams #2 WR since hes only been playing the position a year. You say the team needs another WR, so wouldnt that make it the biggest need? We already have 4 RBs on the roster for next year (5 if you include Faulk). There isnt really a need at that position. At WR we have Moss, Edleman, Aiken, Stanback, Slater, Tate, Welker (when he gets back). Only 1 guy out of that list you can count on to make an impact. WR is definitely the biggest need on the offensive side of the ball and if it isnt addressed I can see us having the same kind of season as we did this year.

It is pretty simple to me. You say we have one WR we can count on and I don't fully disagree. I say we have one RB we can count on. The WR we can count on is one of the best to ever play the game and the one RB I count on is an over the hill 3rd down Scat back type who is a FA too (though I persume he will be back) granted I still think he is our best back and I still think his role is very important to the team we need a solid everydown back IMO.

IMO (Moss plus anything else at WR with a great running game) is better than (Moss and a 1B type WR and the same group of RBs back for another go)

So as I originally said we need any serviceable WRs better than Aiken to pair with Moss and we need a young potentially pro bowl RB to balance the offense.

I could consider our needs like this, in order of importance...

1. O-Line
2. WR
3. RB

This is a little harder to argue. But I think people have put alot of unjust blame on the O-line the last few years, I don't think it is a coincidence that as the Passing game has been featured more and more that Brady has gotten hit a little more. I think People have been comparing the pressure we see now and comparing it to the pressure that Brady saw when he was running Weiss' quick passing attacke with all the 3 and 5 step drops and short routes.

When I breakdown the O-line I see a lot of talent. Some of which is close to the end of their career but IMO still talented. I think we all agree on the Talents of/Potential of Mankins and Vollmer. That leaves us with Light, Koppen, Neal if he returns, and a whole/Wendell if he doesn't. Lets just assume Neal comes back because I really like him and want him too and if he doesn't I cant argue we need to replace him. I am really good with a young up and coming beast tackle and a Pro bowl guard combined with 2 guys who have been pro bowlers for us who have been with us for a long time (continuity) and Neal who I think is one of the best pulling guards in the league. Is it a need for the future sure but I don't think it isnt as big an immediate need as some think.

Also I think a more than just respectable running game would slow down the pass rush a bit as guys couldn't just pin their ears back

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 20

It is pretty simple to me. You say we have one WR we can count on and I don't fully disagree. I say we have one RB we can count on. The WR we can count on is one of the best to ever play the game and the one RB I count on is an over the hill 3rd down Scat back type who is a FA too (though I persume he will be back) granted I still think he is our best back and I still think his role is very important to the team we need a solid everydown back IMO.

IMO (Moss plus anything else at WR with a great running game) is better than (Moss and a 1B type WR and the same group of RBs back for another go)

So as I originally said we need any serviceable WRs better than Aiken to pair with Moss and we need a young potentially pro bowl RB to balance the offense.

Although we cannot count on any one particular RB to be consistent or stay injury free, we have 5 of them. I think at least one of them can step up and be consistent and really contribute to the team. I feel like they all have the potential to do that, with the exception of BJGE. You say get a "young potentially pro bowl RB", well how many of those do you find in the 4th round or below? We have a first rounder and 3 2nds. We have 4 needs that are greater than the RB position IMO. A pass rusher, CB, OL and WR (not in any particular order). We cannot use one of those top picks on a RB because it isnt as big of a pressing need.

In regards to the WR position, you cant really put the whole passing offense on Moss' shoulders. Lets face it hes 33 years old, he cant do the things that he used to do. He is still one of the best WR's in the game, but you cant depend on him to be your only producing WR. The Pats need to go out and get that #2/1a dependable WR. Welker most likely will not be ready for the start of 2010, if play at all during the year. Tate, Aiken, Stanback, Edelman, unlike the RB position the likelihood and any of those players producing is very slim with the exception of Edelman. We saw this past season how a lack of a 3rd WR really hurt this offense, it wasnt the running game. The biggest key for the offense is to go out and add a quality WR.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 20

It is pretty simple to me. You say we have one WR we can count on and I don't fully disagree. I say we have one RB we can count on. The WR we can count on is one of the best to ever play the game and the one RB I count on is an over the hill 3rd down Scat back type who is a FA too (though I persume he will be back) granted I still think he is our best back and I still think his role is very important to the team we need a solid everydown back IMO.

IMO (Moss plus anything else at WR with a great running game) is better than (Moss and a 1B type WR and the same group of RBs back for another go)

So as I originally said we need any serviceable WRs better than Aiken to pair with Moss and we need a young potentially pro bowl RB to balance the offense.



This is a little harder to argue. But I think people have put alot of unjust blame on the O-line the last few years, I don't think it is a coincidence that as the Passing game has been featured more and more that Brady has gotten hit a little more. I think People have been comparing the pressure we see now and comparing it to the pressure that Brady saw when he was running Weiss' quick passing attacke with all the 3 and 5 step drops and short routes.

When I breakdown the O-line I see a lot of talent. Some of which is close to the end of their career but IMO still talented. I think we all agree on the Talents of/Potential of Mankins and Vollmer. That leaves us with Light, Koppen, Neal if he returns, and a whole/Wendell if he doesn't. Lets just assume Neal comes back because I really like him and want him too and if he doesn't I cant argue we need to replace him. I am really good with a young up and coming beast tackle and a Pro bowl guard combined with 2 guys who have been pro bowlers for us who have been with us for a long time (continuity) and Neal who I think is one of the best pulling guards in the league. Is it a need for the future sure but I don't think it isnt as big an immediate need as some think.

Also I think a more than just respectable running game would slow down the pass rush a bit as guys couldn't just pin their ears back

The team had 466 rushing attempts to 592 passing attempts and yet Brady was the fifth most hit QB in the league. This offense was more balanced than the 2007 and even 2008 offenses.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 20

Although we cannot count on any one particular RB to be consistent or stay injury free, we have 5 of them. I think at least one of them can step up and be consistent and really contribute to the team. I feel like they all have the potential to do that, with the exception of BJGE. You say get a "young potentially pro bowl RB", well how many of those do you find in the 4th round or below? We have a first rounder and 3 2nds. We have 4 needs that are greater than the RB position IMO. A pass rusher, CB, OL and WR (not in any particular order). We cannot use one of those top picks on a RB because it isnt as big of a pressing need.

Not sure what your point here is I think we should use our 1 or at least one of the twos on a RB and that is the crux of our argument so not sure what your point is saying you can't expect to find one in the 4th or below.

In regards to the WR position, you cant really put the whole passing offense on Moss' shoulders. Lets face it hes 33 years old, he cant do the things that he used to do. He is still one of the best WR's in the game, but you cant depend on him to be your only producing WR. The Pats need to go out and get that #2/1a dependable WR. Welker most likely will not be ready for the start of 2010, if play at all during the year. Tate, Aiken, Stanback, Edelman, unlike the RB position the likelihood and any of those players producing is very slim with the exception of Edelman. We saw this past season how a lack of a 3rd WR really hurt this offense, it wasnt the running game. The biggest key for the offense is to go out and add a quality WR.

My plan is not to put all the passing game on Moss' shoulders but that with the attention Moss gets all need out of the other WR positions is someone who is pretty good it does not need to be #1 or even #2 draft pick and it doesn't have to be a Boldin type. If We team Moss & Edelman with a Gafney caliber player to be the split end than you have a great Flanker, decent Split end and a good slot man in Edelman. I think there has been a lot of panic over the WR position that is not justified our problem last year with the position was depth not overall talent. Losing Welker also adds some panic that I think is a little overboard too because we have a replacement for him already in Edelman (sure there is a large drop off but IMO Edelman has shown he can play slot and is still developing). So as I have been saying All we need at WR is a pretty good split end someone close to Gafneys ability. Then by hoping Welker returns and by hoping Tate contributes you fill out your depth and have the potential for a great core but

IMO Moss (flanker), Gafney type (split end), Edelman (slot), Tate and maybe one other FA as back ups is a very good WR group and that doesn't even factor in the possibility of Welkers return at some point.

Where as yes we have 5 RBs who each have good skill sets - there isn't one guy in the group that I suspect would rush for a 1,000 yards. And 1,000 yards is not the same bench mark for a good back that it used to be.

The team had 466 rushing attempts to 592 passing attempts and yet Brady was the fifth most hit QB in the league. This offense was more balanced than the 2007 and even 2008 offenses.

OK so the offense was more balanced this year than in 07 or 08...I still don't think that changed the oppents game plans because we don't have the threat at RB that scares teams. Bottom line is teams that face us game plan the passing game and how to get to Brady because our ground game is not scary and they don't have to worry about. Think about how many draw plays were called this year which is called to trick the pass happy defense.

IMO the best way to protect Brady is to give him a back that teams will have to game plan against. Since 07 the game plan vs the patriots is pressure the QB and we need a RB who can make that game plan moot.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 20

Not sure what your point here is I think we should use our 1 or at least one of the twos on a RB and that is the crux of our argument so not sure what your point is saying you can't expect to find one in the 4th or below.

My point is we shouldnt be using any of our top picks on a RB. It isnt one of our needs right, now we have 4 (Faulk 5) RBs on the roster. Next year would be the off season to address the RB situation.

You said that we dont have a RB that could have a 1,000 yard season, well I think that if Morris, Taylor or Maroney was the feature back taking the majority of the carries then they would each be able to have 1,000 yard seasons. It just cant happen when you have 3 backs getting around 5 carries each week. Personally, I would try and shop Morris and have Maroney as our feature back, Taylor as a short yardage change up back and Faulk as our 3rd down back.

My plan is not to put all the passing game on Moss' shoulders but that with the attention Moss gets all need out of the other WR positions is someone who is pretty good it does not need to be #1 or even #2 draft pick and it doesn't have to be a Boldin type. If We team Moss & Edelman with a Gafney caliber player to be the split end than you have a great Flanker, decent Split end and a good slot man in Edelman. I think there has been a lot of panic over the WR position that is not justified our problem last year with the position was depth not overall talent. Losing Welker also adds some panic that I think is a little overboard too because we have a replacement for him already in Edelman (sure there is a large drop off but IMO Edelman has shown he can play slot and is still developing). So as I have been saying All we need at WR is a pretty good split end someone close to Gafneys ability. Then by hoping Welker returns and by hoping Tate contributes you fill out your depth and have the potential for a great core but

IMO Moss (flanker), Gafney type (split end), Edelman (slot), Tate and maybe one other FA as back ups is a very good WR group and that doesn't even factor in the possibility of Welkers return at some point.

Where as yes we have 5 RBs who each have good skill sets - there isn't one guy in the group that I suspect would rush for a 1,000 yards. And 1,000 yards is not the same bench mark for a good back that it used to be.

I do agree that we would be successful with adding a quality #3 WR but that was before Welker went down. We can not assume that he will play in any games this season, so we need to plan like he wont. You said that we have a "very good" group of WR's with Moss, Edelman and a Gaffney like addition. Well look at the best passing teams in the league, do those WR's compare to them. The Saints, Cards, Colts? Not even close. If you had Welker instead of Edelman then maybe you could consider that. Without being certain on Welker this team needs to go out and get that #2/1 A WR because right now teams can just focus all their attention on Moss and have a good chance of winning. Look at the Baltimore and Jets games this year. I dont think Edelman can go out there and win games for you right now. The WR position is clearly the biggest need on this offense right now, it was evident all of last season and is even more evident now without Welker.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 20

You said that we dont have a RB that could have a 1,000 yard season, well I think that if Morris, Taylor or Maroney was the feature back taking the majority of the carries then they would each be able to have 1,000 yard seasons. It just cant happen when you have 3 backs getting around 5 carries each week. Personally, I would try and shop Morris and have Maroney as our feature back, Taylor as a short yardage change up back and Faulk as our 3rd down back.

The only one who is capable of taking on the role of feature back at this point in their careers would be Maroney and he has proven even when he was featured he cant rush for a 1,000. He does have the potential to do it but at this point I am tired of waiting on his potential, either he doesn't fit our system and wont reach the potential with us or he just flat out wont reach it. The other 2 can't take on the load of a feature back at this point in their careers. Faulk is great but he has his role.

I do agree that we would be successful with adding a quality #3 WR but that was before Welker went down. We can not assume that he will play in any games this season, so we need to plan like he wont.

Everything I said about the position was including the fact we can't plan on him.

You said that we have a "very good" group of WR's with Moss, Edelman and a Gaffney like addition. Well look at the best passing teams in the league, do those WR's compare to them. The Saints, Cards, Colts? Not even close.

I wouldn't say not even close but it certainly isn't better and certainly is a pretty good distance behind but if it were possible to have the very best at each position than I would agree I think we can have a top ten passing attack with what I laid out but it wont be top 5 like the cards, saints, or Colts

If you had Welker instead of Edelman then maybe you could consider that. Without being certain on Welker this team needs to go out and get that #2/1 A WR because right now teams can just focus all their attention on Moss and have a good chance of winning. Look at the Baltimore and Jets games this year. I dont think Edelman can go out there and win games for you right now. The WR position is clearly the biggest need on this offense right now, it was evident all of last season and is even more evident now without Welker.

I think a better rushing attack would be able to take attention off Moss just the same as a 1b WR would but the 1b WR still leaves Brady in the pocket with pass rushers pinning their ears back.

We are in agreement that Moss can't be the only weapon but I think people have greatly exagerated what is needed in WR to have a good passing game. IMO Moss, A gaffney type, and Edelman would be as good as Brown, Patten group or the Branch, Givens, Brown groups.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 20

The only one who is capable of taking on the role of feature back at this point in their careers would be Maroney and he has proven even when he was featured he cant rush for a 1,000. He does have the potential to do it but at this point I am tired of waiting on his potential, either he doesn't fit our system and wont reach the potential with us or he just flat out wont reach it. The other 2 can't take on the load of a feature back at this point in their careers. Faulk is great but he has his role.

To Maroney's defense hes never played a full season, even this year he missed one game. He had 757 yards this year despite being in a rotation for probably 2/3 of the season. He could easily eclipse 1,000 yards if he was the feature back. I am not going to make much of a case for Morris because I would like to see him let go so we can actually have a feature back instead of a rotation. I think Taylor could get 1,000 yards if he was the feature back, he did that 7 times when he was with Jacksonville. While he is 34 years old he has been well rested these past few years and I think has something left in the tank.

I wouldn't say not even close but it certainly isn't better and certainly is a pretty good distance behind but if it were possible to have the very best at each position than I would agree I think we can have a top ten passing attack with what I laid out but it wont be top 5 like the cards, saints, or Colts

Even with what we had this year we were 3rd in total passing offense. The Colts were 2 and the Texas 1. 4 and 5 were the Saints and the Chargers. We could be that much better though, our offense was average by our standards, maybe even below average.

I think a better rushing attack would be able to take attention off Moss just the same as a 1b WR would but the 1b WR still leaves Brady in the pocket with pass rushers pinning their ears back.

We are in agreement that Moss can't be the only weapon but I think people have greatly exagerated what is needed in WR to have a good passing game. IMO Moss, A gaffney type, and Edelman would be as good as Brown, Patten group or the Branch, Givens, Brown groups.

I thought that the OL protected Brady fairly well for the most part this year and the issue was that Brady didnt have anyone to throw to because defenses would focus on Moss and Welker and Brady didnt have that other option he could depend on. The WRs that you mentioned were all quality #2/1 A WR's. You give the advantage to Moss or Branch, but you cant compare Edelman to Troy Brown. Givens/Patten would be much more dependable than any WR that we bring in.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 20

To Maroney's defense hes never played a full season, even this year he missed one game. He had 757 yards this year despite being in a rotation for probably 2/3 of the season. He could easily eclipse 1,000 yards if he was the feature back. I am not going to make much of a case for Morris because I would like to see him let go so we can actually have a feature back instead of a rotation. I think Taylor could get 1,000 yards if he was the feature back, he did that 7 times when he was with Jacksonville. While he is 34 years old he has been well rested these past few years and I think has something left in the tank.

I gave Maroney credit for potential being able to do it but I am tired of waiting on his potential. I guess I should give Taylor a little more respect for his years but I find it hard to believe he is going to be a feature back so that argument is mute.

Even with what we had this year we were 3rd in total passing offense. The Colts were 2 and the Texas 1. 4 and 5 were the Saints and the Chargers. We could be that much better though, our offense was average by our standards, maybe even below average.

See this is exactly my point if even with what we had this year we were 3rd in total passing than I don't see how this is a big need. We certainly need depth at the position as we were way to thin and Welkers injury certainly would mean we will not remain status quo without doing something but if Moss, Welker, a promising rookie (Edelman), and a bunch of below JAGs can take you to number 3 than Moss and any two guys about or better than Edelman plus much better depth should bring you close enough and you never know what you might get from Welker (while you can't count him he is a body that likely will take a roster spot at some point next season).

I thought that the OL protected Brady fairly well for the most part this year and the issue was that Brady didnt have anyone to throw to because defenses would focus on Moss and Welker and Brady didnt have that other option he could depend on. The WRs that you mentioned were all quality #2/1 A WR's. You give the advantage to Moss or Branch, but you cant compare Edelman to Troy Brown. Givens/Patten would be much more dependable than any WR that we bring in.

My point was not to compare Edelman to Brown or even to Patten, My point is that Moss is so much far and above any receiver that we have had that him with any two guys as talented or slightly better than Edelman would be a better group than any Brady had without Moss.

IMO the biggeswt problem with the passing game last year was not overall talent as much as the relationship between Brady and his receivers not named Welker or Moss. Brady never got on the same page with Greg Lewis or Galloway in camp and Edelman was a rookie still developing so even if him Brady were building a repoire he was still learning his position, then you get to guys like Aiken and Stanbeck. So with that said I think the WR position could be better just on the fact recievers not named Moss and Welker will get more reps this offseason than last. Sure if we go for a talent level that I think is enough there is more potential for bust but it also allows us to focus on things I feel are more of a need. I would love to have Boldin or Osgood or another very talented WR but I would rather Chester Taylor or CJ Spiller or Peppers.

My list of needs.

Pass Rush
Pass Rush
Pass Rush
RB
CB (alot depends on Bodden and what you get for pass rush. I might lower this a bit if pass rush is truly satisfied)
TE (I would be OK with Watson again but I think he wants out. A recieving threat here would lesson the need at WR too)
OL (more for the future as some are close to the end. If Neal retires I might move this up)
WR (Depth is very important here but sheer depth doesn't outway the talent needed above)
LB (I think the need here is really for the pass rusher but we could use a run stopping LB to platoon...this need becomes much higher if the pass rusher is a Dlinemen)
QB (only Hoyer as back up seems thin but in BB we trust
DL (Can always use a talented guy here but I dont see a huge need outside of passrush which I kind of think of as more OLB)

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 20

My point was not to compare Edelman to Brown or even to Patten, My point is that Moss is so much far and above any receiver that we have had that him with any two guys as talented or slightly better than Edelman would be a better group than any Brady had without Moss.

IMO the biggeswt problem with the passing game last year was not overall talent as much as the relationship between Brady and his receivers not named Welker or Moss. Brady never got on the same page with Greg Lewis or Galloway in camp and Edelman was a rookie still developing so even if him Brady were building a repoire he was still learning his position, then you get to guys like Aiken and Stanbeck. So with that said I think the WR position could be better just on the fact recievers not named Moss and Welker will get more reps this offseason than last. Sure if we go for a talent level that I think is enough there is more potential for bust but it also allows us to focus on things I feel are more of a need. I would love to have Boldin or Osgood or another very talented WR but I would rather Chester Taylor or CJ Spiller or Peppers.

My list of needs.

Pass Rush
Pass Rush
Pass Rush
RB
CB (alot depends on Bodden and what you get for pass rush. I might lower this a bit if pass rush is truly satisfied)
TE (I would be OK with Watson again but I think he wants out. A recieving threat here would lesson the need at WR too)
OL (more for the future as some are close to the end. If Neal retires I might move this up)
WR (Depth is very important here but sheer depth doesn't outway the talent needed above)
LB (I think the need here is really for the pass rusher but we could use a run stopping LB to platoon...this need becomes much higher if the pass rusher is a Dlinemen)
QB (only Hoyer as back up seems thin but in BB we trust
DL (Can always use a talented guy here but I dont see a huge need outside of passrush which I kind of think of as more OLB)

You are putting too much into Moss, yeah he is a great player but in order to be successful you need to have more than 1 good WR and in most cases you need 3 quality WR's. Hes getting up there in age and just cannot do things that he used to. Look at what happened this year, teams totally took Moss out of games by having their whole secondary focused on him forcing someone else on the Pats to beat them. The Pats simply didnt have anyone that can do that, which creates such a huge need at the WR position.

You admitted that the lack of a 3rd WR was an issue this past season, so why is it your 6th biggest need? It just doesnt make any sense. Our offense will always be a pass oriented offense so why wouldnt a WR be first on that list especially when you see how many RB's we have on the roster. I am not necessarily saying to go out and get a Boldin, 2nd tier FA like Malcolm Floyd or Antonio Bryant would be adequate. Also using a 2nd rounder on a WR that could potentially make an impact would work. We will be doing our "big spending" this off season on the defensive side of the ball possibility Peppers and/or Wilfork. Defense is our biggest need right now.

Your list of needs is way off. How can a RB be our 2nd greatest need? We have so many of them on our roster right now who have plenty of potential. Would really adding a stud RB really benefit our team? It would require us changing our whole approach and turn into more of a run first offense. I just cant see the Pats every choosing to go that route, the NFL as a whole as evolved into a more pass first league. Also, you list 9 needs for this team. I just cant see a team ever addressing 9 needs in one off season there simply isnt enough money/draft picks to go around. A QB is definitely not a need when you have Tom Brady, his replacement is a good 3 or 4 years away.

My list of needs for this offseason (in order):
OLB/DE (pass rush)
CB (Bodden determines how high this is)
WR
OL
TE

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 20

You are putting too much into Moss, yeah he is a great player but in order to be successful you need to have more than 1 good WR and in most cases you need 3 quality WR's. Hes getting up there in age and just cannot do things that he used to. Look at what happened this year, teams totally took Moss out of games by having their whole secondary focused on him forcing someone else on the Pats to beat them. The Pats simply didnt have anyone that can do that, which creates such a huge need at the WR position.

You admitted that the lack of a 3rd WR was an issue this past season, so why is it your 6th biggest need? It just doesnt make any sense. Our offense will always be a pass oriented offense so why wouldnt a WR be first on that list especially when you see how many RB's we have on the roster. I am not necessarily saying to go out and get a Boldin, 2nd tier FA like Malcolm Floyd or Antonio Bryant would be adequate. Also using a 2nd rounder on a WR that could potentially make an impact would work. We will be doing our "big spending" this off season on the defensive side of the ball possibility Peppers and/or Wilfork. Defense is our biggest need right now.

Your list of needs is way off. How can a RB be our 2nd greatest need? We have so many of them on our roster right now who have plenty of potential. Would really adding a stud RB really benefit our team? It would require us changing our whole approach and turn into more of a run first offense. I just cant see the Pats every choosing to go that route, the NFL as a whole as evolved into a more pass first league. Also, you list 9 needs for this team. I just cant see a team ever addressing 9 needs in one off season there simply isnt enough money/draft picks to go around. A QB is definitely not a need when you have Tom Brady, his replacement is a good 3 or 4 years away.

My list of needs for this offseason (in order):
OLB/DE (pass rush)
CB (Bodden determines how high this is)
WR
OL
TE

Calling it a needs list was wrong as I went thru every position more just a state of the team list.

I think I have found more about why we are not on the same page. You think it is important to get the passing attack back to where it was in 07 and considering the success that season I can see why. I am trying to get back to more of an 04 team which was extremely well balanced that year and despite 1600 out of Corey I don't think that was a run first team.

You admitted that the lack of a 3rd WR was an issue this past season, so why is it your 6th biggest need?

It is my my sixth biggest need because we are talking about a 3rd wide receiver. When I listed pass rush I was hoping to fill it with a stud like a Peppers or a first RDer, when I listed CB it was to replace or retain Bodden the #1 corner on the team this year, TE to replace or retain the #1 TE, RB was to find someone who would be a feature back (I hate RB by commitee), OL was the only position where I wasn't looking for an imediate starter but IMO OL is so much more important than WR, Than we get to 3rd WR (doesn't seem to crazy to me).


I will admit the one hole in my logic is that in the NFL these days 3rd WR and Nickel backs are very close to Starters by talent level but I just think finding a young starting RB who can carry us to 12,000 plus yards and balance the offense is more important.


The last point to my argument which I already made a little bit but if Tom can take an offense with Caldwell as your best WR to the AFC Championship game than he can do the same and/or better with Moss and anybody about equal in talent as caldwell for 2nd and 3rd WRs.

in the end I think we have to agree to disagree.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 20

Calling it a needs list was wrong as I went thru every position more just a state of the team list.

I think I have found more about why we are not on the same page. You think it is important to get the passing attack back to where it was in 07 and considering the success that season I can see why. I am trying to get back to more of an 04 team which was extremely well balanced that year and despite 1600 out of Corey I don't think that was a run first team.

I see where we differ. You would like to see more of an emphasis on the running game. I like where we are at. This year we ran the ball 496 times and threw 592, fairly balanced for recent year. In 2004 it was 524 rush 485 pass. I dont think we will ever get back to running the ball more than we throw. If you look at the league at a whole the more successful teams throw the ball more than they pass. Look at the teams that advanced in the playoffs with the exception of the Jets they were a pass first offense. They only way you can get away with being a rush first offense is if you have a dominant defense, our defense isnt dominant so we cannot do that. Look at how good the 2004 defense was, thats why they could be more run dominant. We cannot change our whole offensive approach.

It is my my sixth biggest need because we are talking about a 3rd wide receiver. When I listed pass rush I was hoping to fill it with a stud like a Peppers or a first RDer, when I listed CB it was to replace or retain Bodden the #1 corner on the team this year, TE to replace or retain the #1 TE, RB was to find someone who would be a feature back (I hate RB by commitee), OL was the only position where I wasn't looking for an imediate starter but IMO OL is so much more important than WR, Than we get to 3rd WR (doesn't seem to crazy to me).


I will admit the one hole in my logic is that in the NFL these days 3rd WR and Nickel backs are very close to Starters by talent level but I just think finding a young starting RB who can carry us to 12,000 plus yards and balance the offense is more important.


The last point to my argument which I already made a little bit but if Tom can take an offense with Caldwell as your best WR to the AFC Championship game than he can do the same and/or better with Moss and anybody about equal in talent as caldwell for 2nd and 3rd WRs.

in the end I think we have to agree to disagree.

I do see where you are coming from, we disagree because our approaches are different. I agree to disagree.

 

[muzz]

Re: So Westbrook isn't getting 100% positive vibes that he'll be back in Philly in 20

Nope, no thanks