Slater Haters: Are we undervaluing STs?

[signbabybrady]

I guess at this point so close to the final 53 we should just wait and see. I think his STs play is good enough for him to make it but it wouldn't suprise me if he didn't but IMO if he gets cut it is because of how deep this team is and not because he fumbled a few returns last year and had two preseason penalties. IMO he will be a top STer in this league for years and could develope his return skills albeit on this team or another.

 

[bbabin]

I see two ways to look at this:

1. Yeah he plays special teams a lot but he made two boneheaded plays costing the team 15 yards each and he sucks at safety.

OR

2. Yeah he made a few beginner mistakes in the preseason, but he is a beast on special teams and has the potential to be a great returner.

Personally I'm going with number 2, but they are both true statements and you can look at Slater however you want.

What I saw though was a player who was the first around the returners all the time (3 special teams tackles). Also, though he interfered with the punt returns (stupid and inexcusable) he was the first one there again and caused the fair catch in the first place (good punts not withstanding).

Also check this out from Reiss:

When putting together a 53-man roster, special teams considerations are crucial yet sometimes overlooked. With this in mind, here were the players who appeared on the four core special teams units -- kickoff return, kickoff coverage, punt return, punt coverage:

WR Sam Aiken
LB Eric Alexander
S Brandon McGowan
S Matthew Slater
Slater was credited with a team-high three special teams tackles in the game. He also had a fair catch interference penalty for the second week in a row.

I predict he makes the team and contributes to special teams a lot, with tackles blocks, and possibly some good returns.
Special teams clues - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com

 

[signbabybrady]

-- #1 Gunner.
-- #1 Lead Blocker.
-- #1 Gunner Blocker.
-- A top coverage tackler.
-- His returns suffer from not having a more effective lead blocker. His "average" is affected by squib kicks from short-legged thunder foots, he's picking up enough yardage when he gets a clean kick to make up for the loss of yardage on the dribbler kicks.
-- Ball handling is only an issue if people ignore the short-legged kickers who have dribbled the ball down the field, Slater has actually shown good ball skills and awareness to pick the ball up or cover it vs the situation.

As said elsewhere, Slater is a lock.

Well put BOR.....another thought came to mind about his average seeing as it is such a small sample size how much would the lack of return on the fumbles effect the number....because that is kind of double jeopardy we all saw them and chastise him for the fumbles but people are chastising his average too.

 

[RayClay]

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't it Dexter Reid and Don Davis who were the back up safeties?? speaking of Don Davis a STs guy mainly who switched positions to make his value increase hmmmm....I wouldn't call either that much more experienced than Slater at safety (Reid did it in college so that is worth something and Davis was a Vet but neither was really an experienced pro safety) but if your point is that Chung, Meriweather, Sanders, and McGowan are better safeties I agree.


I call him a STer and back up safety I don't call him a WR anymore because I don't see him there.

He does have a role on kick returns other than returner he is a real good lead blocker

He can catch but I dont see him as any more a viable WR than Slater a Safety.....which is if all else went down hopefully they could do something and each could suprise.

With Harrison and Wilson out, I'm pretty sure Chris Akins and J'errod cherry were forced into action and that's who I was talking about.

Scary finish.

Edit, no Reid and Antwan Harris must have been injured, cause he'snot listed at the SB.

 

[Deus Irae]

Slater is a poor return man who seems to be able to do everything else on special teams, including racking up stupid penalties. He can't play a position, and this is a bad year to be this type of player in New England.

Box has him as a lock, but I think he's on the bubble. I used to think him a lock, but the way they've tried to 'force' him as a returner seemed as if they were trying to justify him in a sense. He's failed at it. Last year, that was more than good enough. Now, in a year where spots are at a premium for every position except linebacker, I don't see how he's locked down a spot.

Of course, I'd suggest that others give any benefit of the doubt to Box on this, rather than to me. He's far better versed in the special teams aspects of the Patriots than I ever care to be.

 

[RayClay]

-- His returns suffer from not having a more effective lead blocker.

We do have the cloning technology, Box. Perhaps in the future he can block for himself.

 

[RayClay]

I'd just like to add the possibility of 31 other teams having a fast special teams guy, perhaps a gunner, who has worked his ass of with no acclaim, avoided mistakes and infested his team with such a positive attitude that his cut will be heartbreaking.

OK, I dramatize. But the fact is, there are other special teams guys who have maximized their abilities, but lose to the numbers game. Something to think about.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Well put BOR.....another thought came to mind about his average seeing as it is such a small sample size how much would the lack of return on the fumbles effect the number....because that is kind of double jeopardy we all saw them and chastise him for the fumbles but people are chastising his average too.

What fumbles? Slater has zero fumbles charged to him in any of the NFL.com box scores for preseason. What people are calling fumbles, including game announcers who should know better, are short kicks that wind up squibbing/dribbling down the field and need to be scooped up and controlled or covered before the coverage unit can recover them. Slater has done an excellent job at shortstop corralling those crappy kicks and making chicken salad out of chicken droppings.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

But the fact is, there are other special teams guys who have maximized their abilities, but lose to the numbers game. Something to think about.

Perhaps, but at the moment I have all four (Aiken, Alexander, Slater, Ventrone) making the roster as core Special Teams players. The other players who have looked good on teams also have strong position arguments, but these four have been the bright lights when you slow down the teams and try to figure out who's getting what done on the play.

 

[signbabybrady]

What fumbles? Slater has zero fumbles charged to him in any of the NFL.com box scores for preseason. What people are calling fumbles, including game announcers who should know better, are short kicks that wind up squibbing/dribbling down the field and need to be scooped up and controlled or covered before the coverage unit can recover them. Slater has done an excellent job at shortstop corralling those crappy kicks and making chicken salad out of chicken droppings.

the two Muffs I guess is a better term from last year was what I was refering to didn't realize the average people were talking about was this preseason. My point was that those two muffs were returns of zero yards bringing his average down but we already chastise him for the muffs.

My real point on Slater is that all other aspects of his special teams play is real good and there is obviously alot more too special teams than the 2 returners (punt and kick).

 

[RayClay]

What fumbles? Slater has zero fumbles charged to him in any of the NFL.com box scores for preseason. What people are calling fumbles, including game announcers who should know better, are short kicks that wind up squibbing/dribbling down the field and need to be scooped up and controlled or covered before the coverage unit can recover them. Slater has done an excellent job at shortstop corralling those crappy kicks and making chicken salad out of chicken droppings.

2008 11 KR 155 yds 2 fumbles.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Oh my goodness, the sins of last season! The kid's rookie season? We'd better cut Sammy Morris then.

 

[signbabybrady]

2008 11 KR 155 yds 2 fumbles.

ok so 155 divided by 9 is still bad so much for that point...but again my main point is that he is a real good STer not as a returner.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

ok so 155 divided by 9 is still bad so much for that point...but again my main point is that he is a real good STer not as a returner.

Watching him this preseason he's done a better job as a returner. My one concern with him is not following his lead blockers, though you can forgive him a little for that given those blockers haven't done the most effective job (LoMo hit no one on the opening KO Friday - compare that to Slater pancaking a man for LoMo).

 

[signbabybrady]

Perhaps, but at the moment I have all four (Aiken, Alexander, Slater, Ventrone) making the roster as core Special Teams players. The other players who have looked good on teams also have strong position arguments, but these four have been the bright lights when you slow down the teams and try to figure out who's getting what done on the play.

Slater might be the best of the four but such a suttle distinction would have to made by the coaches. I think slater is a real good STer and if he doesn't make the squad it is becuase we don't keep all four of these guys not becuase of a couple of muffs as a rookie and 2 preseason penalties.

I have him on the 53 but wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't but if he isn't he will find a job elsewhere I have no doubt becuase he is that good of a STer.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Slater might be the best of the four but such a suttle distinction would have to made by the coaches. I think slater is a real good STer and if he doesn't make the squad it is becuase we don't keep all four of these guys not becuase of a couple of muffs as a rookie and 2 preseason penalties.

I have him on the 53 but wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't but if he isn't he will find a job elsewhere I have no doubt becuase he is that good of a STer.

I'd probably cut Ventrone or Alexander first and ask them to stay on the shadow roster for an early opening.

 

[signbabybrady]

I'd probably cut Ventrone or Alexander first and ask them to stay on the shadow roster for an early opening.

me too. though they could find work elsewhere too.

I am going to leave this argument as I have said enough already.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Of course, I'd suggest that others give any benefit of the doubt to Box on this, rather than to me. He's far better versed in the special teams aspects of the Patriots than I ever care to be.

Way to shift the blame. :enranged:

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

me too. though they could find work elsewhere too.

In a heartbeat, but I'd hope they'd be willing to give BB a couple weeks.

 

[Deus Irae]

In a heartbeat, but I'd hope they'd be willing to give BB a couple weeks.

Dude! Ain't nothing goin' on but the rent! (Ok, and this delicious sea bass that I'm eating for brunch)