Slater Haters: Are we undervaluing STs?

[mayoclinic]

Sounds like you should see a doctor.

I am one, thanks. I do all trauma work so I'm used to blood and gore and very little upsets my stomach, but the combination of Slater and Alexander does the trick. Congratulations.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I am one, thanks. I do all trauma work so I'm used to blood and gore and very little upsets my stomach, but the combination of Slater and Alexander does the trick. Congratulations.

My baby bro is an ER-PA with a Masters in Emergency Med, you trauma & ER guys can have the fun. EMT was enough for me.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Maybe it's worth two this year, but in the past it's been worth at least FOUR on the 45-man roster, let alone the 53.

And remember that BB felt that a guy like Ventrone offered enough in his limited play on STs that he was active for every game for which he was healthy.

Again, that's not to say that the past is predictive (after all, BB never cuts third-rounders in their second year. . . .), but it's worth considering.

 

[fgssand]

Washington is not an option.

We need two gunners. IMHO, we need two special team specialists who block and tackle on all the special team units. Your position is that Ventrone, Slater and Alexander don't meet your high standards. You say this knowing that these these three have been integral to our special team over the past three years. I agree with regard to Ventrone. I do expect Lenon to beat out Alexander. I am fine if another special teamer beats out Slater.

So, who do YOU choose? If not these three, perhaps one of Jones or Ciurciu is your choice. Both were top special teamers for other teams.

The roster is tight with most of us agreeing that we will keep at least THREE develpmental players: Edelman, Wheatley and Crable. I would opt for only.

However, we still need special teamers more than the 9th LB or the 5th RB or the 4th TE.

If it comes down to a final choice between Slater and Alexander, I go with Slater all the way. The guy is fast, has a nose for the ball (except when he lets it hit him in the nose as he returns or he hits the returner in the nose on a F/catch call), beats the double coverage nearly all the time as a gunner and remember, he is only in his second year. The kid will get better and better I think as he truly has plenty of upside potential. Alexander is a known commodity at this point, not bad - not great, but what we see is all we will get.

 

[BradyFixesEverything]

Slater makes me uneasy. I can seriously live without that feeling...but...in Bill I trust...

 

[Synovia]

4 things plus he backs up safety as much as aiken backs up WR. 4 things being kick coverage, punt coverage (his two best strengths) - KR and PR (not the punt returner but I am pretty sure he is on this unit one of the vice guys I believe) and the KR unit he is a real good lead blocker if he doesnt wind up the returner, he has the instincts of a returner and If I remember correct I think Hobbs praised him for this last year saying it made his job easier knowing the lead blocker thought like him. (may have been BB)

He's the lead blocker. And its amazing how good he is at that.


Its also amazing how little people know about this team, and the game of football in general, and yet proclaim themselves to be huge fans.

 

[mgteich]

We'll have our four. We've added Banta-Cain, Lewis, McGowan and Chung. We have Aiken continuing. We will have Lenon or Alexander (who was injured much of last year). We may even have Slater or Ventrone or even Ciurciu or Jones.

Actually a special team player is much more likely to be active than the #4 WR or the #4 RB or many others, even though they are the "bottom" of the 53 man roster.

Maybe it's worth two this year, but in the past it's been worth at least FOUR on the 45-man roster, let alone the 53.

And remember that BB felt that a guy like Ventrone offered enough in his limited play on STs that he was active for every game for which he was healthy.

Again, that's not to say that the past is predictive (after all, BB never cuts third-rounders in their second year. . . .), but it's worth considering.

 

[AzPatsFan]

We'll have our four. We've added Banta-Cain, Lewis, McGowan and Chung. We have Aiken continuing. We will have Lenon or Alexander (who was injured much of last year). We may even have Slater or Ventrone or even Ciurciu or Jones.

Actually a special team player is much more likely to be active than the #4 WR or the #4 RB or many others, even though they are the "bottom" of the 53 man roster.

Why do y'all forget listing Woods as a great STer? He only led the Team in ST tackles for two years or was it three?

In this game he was the one who saved the TD, and finally tackled the Skins returner on their one long return.

BTW, no one is mentioning that Chung almost had another FG block. After his block, he has come close twice more, and has hurried both kickers into missing their kicks...

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

-- #1 Gunner.
-- #1 Lead Blocker.
-- #1 Gunner Blocker.
-- A top coverage tackler.
-- His returns suffer from not having a more effective lead blocker. His "average" is affected by squib kicks from short-legged thunder foots, he's picking up enough yardage when he gets a clean kick to make up for the loss of yardage on the dribbler kicks.
-- Ball handling is only an issue if people ignore the short-legged kickers who have dribbled the ball down the field, Slater has actually shown good ball skills and awareness to pick the ball up or cover it vs the situation.

As said elsewhere, Slater is a lock.

His returns are pretty bad and not just because of the blocking. He makes poor decisions on where to run IMO. He also goes down almost every time on first contace... he just stinks are breaking tackles. I also do not trust his instincts on adjusting for the ball as he is trying to field the return. I don't think his hands are that bad, but he seems to misjudge where the ball is going to come down.

On the play this week where he hit the player who called fair catch, it looked to me like he had plenty of time to see the fair catch signal and was trying to get very close to the returner to intimidate him. A lot of players do that. However, when the returner misjudged the ball and started to sidestep to get it, slater was in the way and was unable to vacate the area. It was a bonehead play by him. He seems to have a lot of those.

I agree that he is a great blocker on returns and most of the time is very good on the coverage. I am really on the fence with this guy. He makes really great plays and really boneheaded horrible plays. Do the positives outweigh the negatives enough to give him a spot over someone else that can play similar roles? I don't know, but I definitely think he is on the bubble.

 

[Bostonian1962]

I'll start by saying I like Law Firm and would love to see him make the team. Lately I've seen other BJGE supporters suggest him to be more valuable than Slater. That absolutely cannot be true.

Even watching Friday's game in a distracted manner you had to notice that MS was CONSTANTLY in on the play on STs. Even his fair catch interference call was a minor issue, which can be fixed.

I get that we usually monitor guys for their value across the team, and in a major pinch Matt could play WR or S, but there's no need for him there and we'd have to have a serious visitation of the angel of football death to need him for that.

Still, it's been said over and over how important this guy is to special teams and after a few PS games, it's pretty clear that's true.

I think I left Slater off an earlier roster projection, but at this point, with some closer viewing of what he brings, it's awfully hard for me to do that.

What do you guys think? Is Slater REALLY on the bubble? I personally can't see how he would be replaced.

I haven't yet done the drill of going through the roster and doing the math. However, this is a really tough one to answer. The Patriots really see the importance of Special Teams. To them "offense, defense, and special teams" is not something they say for lip service.

Slater and Aiken could be our best ST players, and maybe they'll both make the team. Again, I need to do the math to give an intelligent answer. It's a great question though.

 

[Mack Herron]

I haven't yet done the drill of going through the roster and doing the math. However, this is a really tough one to answer. The Patriots really see the importance of Special Teams. To them "offense, defense, and special teams" is not something they say for lip service.

Slater and Aiken could be our best ST players, and maybe they'll both make the team. Again, I need to do the math to give an intelligent answer. It's a great question though.

Slater has been a disappointment as a returner. But if the season started today Slater would play every kick and every punt. BJGE plays only if a bunch of guys get hurt.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Why do y'all forget listing Woods as a great STer? He only led the Team in ST tackles for two years or was it three?

In this game he was the one who saved the TD, and finally tackled the Skins returner on their one long return.

BTW, no one is mentioning that Chung almost had another FG block. After his block, he has come close twice more, and has hurried both kickers into missing their kicks...

FWIW, when I was talking about "four players," I was talking about the fact that the Pats, last year, had four players, beyond K/P/LS, who basically only played STs.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Slater has been a disappointment as a returner. But if the season started today Slater would play every kick and every punt. BJGE plays only if a bunch of guys get hurt.

The key thing, though, is that every one automatically assumes a "ST specialist" is a returner. If you go back and look at what BB had to say about Slater back when he was drafted, he never implied that they picked Slater specifically to be a return man.

 

[mgteich]

No, I didn't forget Woods. He is one of our best special teams players, as he has been for years.

I made a list of player who weren't on the team last year, who are expected to be backups, and who I expect to take a major role on our special teams. I listed Banta-Cain, Lewis, McGowan, and Chung. As I have said, we also brought in Lenon who may or may not make the team over Alexander. Even if we still need a special team specialist (and I think we do), Slater still has competition from Ciurciu, Jones and Ventrone. I alos might have mentioned Butler who could also be a significant contributer on special teams.

I certainly believe Belichick and his new Special Teams coach wanted to upgrade our special teams units and appropriately brought in players to do so.

Why do y'all forget listing Woods as a great STer? He only led the Team in ST tackles for two years or was it three?

In this game he was the one who saved the TD, and finally tackled the Skins returner on their one long return.

BTW, no one is mentioning that Chung almost had another FG block. After his block, he has come close twice more, and has hurried both kickers into missing their kicks...

 

[FilPats]

Slater has been a disappointment as a returner. But if the season started today Slater would play every kick and every punt. BJGE plays only if a bunch of guys get hurt.

Good Point. Go Pats:singing: