Silver on the Pats @ CNNSI -- who's the source?

[ClevTrev]

He was willing to be quoted only saying positive things. You think he has only positive feelings about the team after how it let him go?

1. The article says nothing about Willie wanting to say only positive things.
2. The "anonymous source" is someone else.
3. If I were Michael Silver, I could pick up the phone and have a former Patriot player in an interview in 5 minutes. If he didn't want to be quoted, I'd protect his identity and assure him that he would not be identified. In other words, I wouldn't need to write an article with only one former player to quote and play the game of calling him "Willie" and "anonymous".

 

[kolbitr]

Actually, this kind of juxtaposition is a *very* common practice in reporting interviews. If the person being interviewed is foolish enough to say "this is off the record", that part of what they said will of course still be reported, especially if it's controversial and interesting, but will be attributed anonymously.

Well, I am very familiar with the concept known as off the record, but I disagree that what Silver does here is all that common, when done in this particular way. What would be more common, in my opinion, is for the writer to be less specific about his source(s)--so the first anonymous snippet might be attributed to a "former player" and the reporter might then ascribe other tidbits to unnamed sources "around the league", rumours, "grumblings out of the locker room", etc, even though they all come from the same player, in actuality. That makes sense.

What I can not remember seeing before is this sort of anonymous/attributed quotation table-tennis match. I think the confusion of many on the board is evidence of its confusing nature.

As I said before, it will probably be cleared up soon enough, if someone asks Willie about it. At least, we'll know if he lays claim to the whole, which I strongly doubt.

 

[ClevTrev]

What I can not remember seeing before is this sort of anonymous/attributed quotation table-tennis match. I think the confusion of many on the board is evidence of its confusing nature.

As I said before, it will probably be cleared up soon enough, if someone asks Willie about it. At least, we'll know if he lays claim to the whole, which I strongly doubt.

Silver's hastily written article was hard to follow. He did mix quotes from "anonymous" among McGinest's quotes. I can see how some suspect that it was all Willie.

I can assure you it wasn't. Silver wouldn't play that game, and McGinest will retire as a Patriot. He's not the type to slam his former team. The others identified in my earlier post would.

 

[psychoPat]

1. The article says nothing about Willie wanting to say only positive things.
2. The "anonymous source" is someone else.
3. If I were Michael Silver, I could pick up the phone and have a former Patriot player in an interview in 5 minutes. If he didn't want to be quoted, I'd protect his identity and assure him that he would not be identified. In other words, I wouldn't need to write an article with only one former player to quote and play the game of calling him "Willie" and "anonymous".

Hey there, ClevTrev and everyone else !

Please show us where the author ever, even once, refers to an "anonymous source".

It is one and the same source.
Silver identifies him repeatedly.
It is McGinest.
He only refers to "the former Patriots player" and other circumlocutions for variety in his prose.

Wherefore art thou, o reading comprehension?

 

[Mike the Brit]

Hey there, ClevTrev and everyone else !

Please show us where the author ever, even once, refers to an "anonymous source".

It is one and the same source.
Silver identifies him repeatedly.
It is McGinest.
He only refers to "the former Patriots player" and other circumlocutions for variety in his prose.

Wherefore art thou, o reading comprehension?

No, pp -- it's as clear as it can be from the following paragraphs that there are two sources here. Moreover, the tone of voice between Willie and the anonymous source are quite different (Willie says that he understands them trading for Randy in a way that outsiders won't and that the Patriots can "convert" him; the "anonymous source" says that it makes him mad with the organization because, in fact, the organization doesn't have more high-character guys than any other):

'"I'm not mad that they did this," the former Patriots player said. "I'm mad that for all these years, when everyone wrote that their values were different, they ate it up. They're no different than anyone else, and they never were. We had a run, and the rest is just propaganda.

"I bought into all that stuff about the 'Patriot Way,' and then when I went to [a new team], I was blown away by how loudly guys outside of the organization shot it down. They'd say, 'You guys don't do s--- different -- you've just got Tom Brady.' I argued with them at first, but looking back, there was no lower percentage of jackasses there than on any other team. Some of the guys they drafted, even in early rounds, were selfish and unreliable and horrible to have around."

Those are three adjectives, based on Moss's nine-year body of work (and numerous conversations with those who've been around him), that I'd use without hesitation to describe the Pats' new deep threat. Yet when people I respect as much as I do McGinest tell me they think the move was a positive one, I have to at least consider that viewpoint.

"It was odd, them trading for Randy," he conceded. "I only get it because I was there. If I'm looking at it from the outside, no, I don't get it. Since I've been there and I understand how they can convert guys like Randy, I understand it, but I can see how others wouldn't."

I hear you, Willie. And I also believe the high-ranking Patriots official who told me that if Moss makes one false move, "He'll be gone -- period." Cool. Good for them. But, in the end, I can't sign off on the notion that the conversion of Moss will be as seamless as everyone appears to believe it will.'

Now for the identification. I agree that the tone of voice and sense of resentment could easily be that of a former kicker who is dead to me. It has to be someone with more than one ring and who is still in the league. What's more, I wouldn't be surprised if the Colts were to shoot the Patriots down loudly.

However, look at the highlighted sentence. Would a bunch of Colts say to him "look, you guys didn't win because you had a better organization or better character players; you just had Tom Brady (and we didn't -- we only had Peyton Manning)"? If that's what the Colts were saying to our former kicker, it's quite funny ...

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

I'm ruling out Willie. I'm also ruling out Patten given that prior to BB giving him a chance to compete for a spot on the team, he was loading 50 lbs coffee bags on trucks for a living. Besides, the guy always struck me as the polite, gracious sort.

To me, the leading candidates are Law, Branch, Givens and maybe even Lawyer.

 

[TealSox]

The irony is that the media created this image and the media is mad that the the Patriots are perceived this way.

In the end they will be judged by wins and losses. Everybody loves a winner and doesn't like a loser.

If Randy produces he'll be loved, but in the end who cares if the Pats are perceived to be on a high morale ground. In the end they will be judged by if they won the superbowl or not. This is not the first team to have a prior malcontent on the team.

Pay no mind to the media.

I think you hit the nail on the head with how ridiculous this backlash is. It is true that the Patriots were less inclined to sign, draft or trade for low character players. It is true that they didn't tolerate low character players or players that were working toward the goals of the team (Terry Glenn and recently Doug Gabriel). But the Pats didn't go out and design a shirt that said.... "COMMITTMENT TO CLASS" did they?

No. The media built the Patriots to whatever image they wanted, just like they do with all other teams that make their way into the spotlight and created labels. Geez, they pretty much made the Mission Statement for the Patriots organization without a Patriot in the room.

I want to sit here and say that the media is filled with haters. I am sure that to a certain degree, they want the under dogs because it makes for better stories, but I am sure they aren't sad about having to write about the end of the Patriots moral obligations.

And no Silver, I am not drinking the Patriots Kool aid and making excuses for Moss or Meriweather. Have a field day with their reputations, but cut the Pats some slack for "embodying the American spirit of second chances".

 

[Dirtywater]

I'd agree.
What about Corey Dillon?

Another reason I think it is AV, is that he talks about once he was on the other team, meaning he played there (IMHO) for at least a season.

Dillon has not been to another team yet to make that statement true.

 

[Bostonian1962]

The irony is that the media created this image and the media is mad that the the Patriots are perceived this way.

In the end they will be judged by wins and losses. Everybody loves a winner and doesn't like a loser.

If Randy produces he'll be loved, but in the end who cares if the Pats are perceived to be on a high morale ground. In the end they will be judged by if they won the superbowl or not. This is not the first team to have a prior malcontent on the team.

That exactly right? Somebody show me just one quote, just one quote, where one of the Patriots brass says they only take saints to the exclusion of all others. It's such a media thing, it makes me sick.

This clown implies that the Patriots always claim the moral high ground when it comes to players, and then in the same article discusses all the less than character players the Patriots have had.

You can't say that signing Moss takes away the moral high ground that they've always had, and then show 15 other examples of where they obtained less than desirable players. I need to write this fool.

 

[thesmee1]

I bet it's Andruzzi, whom I feel is still bitter about the way he left NE, and let his brothers do the talking for him. He knows he's about to be cut yet again, and the venom spews forth. He felt his worth to the pats was great, when obviously BB and Pioli thought otherwise. The kicker who shall be nameless has no reason to *****, he got his payday and is on a SB winning team. Andruzzi got his payday, on a losing franchise, and never made the difference to back up his brothers' mouths.

 

[ClevTrev]

No. The media built the Patriots to whatever image they wanted, just like they do with all other teams that make their way into the spotlight and created labels. Geez, they pretty much made the Mission Statement for the Patriots organization without a Patriot in the room.

I want to sit here and say that the media is filled with haters. I am sure that to a certain degree, they want the under dogs because it makes for better stories, but I am sure they aren't sad about having to write about the end of the Patriots moral obligations.

And no Silver, I am not drinking the Patriots Kool aid and making excuses for Moss or Meriweather. Have a field day with their reputations, but cut the Pats some slack for "embodying the American spirit of second chances".

Excellent points. And this is the essence of the phenomena that's going on with some in the local and national media. Their feigned taking of the "moral highground" now that they detect a change in Patriots' philosophy is only so much BS. There are many in the media today who write sports stories. There are not that many original stories to go around. This is an opportunity to take a completely different slant on a team that many would love to see fail (so they can write stories about why they failed).

Have the Patriots' sold their souls to the devil? Come on! They just signed Randy Moss and drafted Meriweather. The bottom line with BB and SP is to win. They feel that these guys will be productive team members, even if for Moss it ends up being for one year.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Silver wouldn't know how to reach Andruzzi. He was looking to poll former core players who were part of what he thought the magic formula was. Willie went on record. Others may have declined comment. One was willing to "get real" provided Silver didn't identify him.

It's either Lawyer or Ty. My first thought was Ty is too self absorbed to be bothered commenting. Both had "system" labeling issues. Lawyer was vocal about those concerns even then, and it's part of the reason he was jettisoned (potential to become a "negative" leader). So in a way Lawyer never fully bought in, he just sipped the koolaid for 2000-2001. But when Lawyer left he went to a team that had just had a parade for Bledsoe believing we kept the wrong QB, so hearing in Buffalo the it's all Brady comments would be almost as bizarre as if they were uttered in Indy. And he wasn't here past 2002 to see high draft picks behaving like jerks (although he's remained close enough to players here to hear scuttlebutt to that effect). Besides being on a team currently fronted by the herpes spreading fan flipping animal abuser I doubt Lawyer would be in a mood to comment on NFL character assessments.

Ty on the other hand went to a JETS team that had a fragile QB with suspect arm strength (drafted around 190 slots ahead of Brady in 2000) who even before his 2005 injury was struggling to live up to his first round billing. They had talent and Herm Edwards at the helm, and a pre existing NY media fed anti BB bias, so I'm sure many of them believed the only difference between them and us had to be Brady - who by then had 3 rings. Had to be. And Ty has stayed away even after being courted to come back. Obviously money was an issue, but the underlying issue is also said to be Ty's desire to disprove the theory that BB's system made his talent look more valuable than it actually was. And he's been unable to do that. So to him it's become pretty obvious after 2 miserable seasons with 2 talented teams that the system stuff and the character stuff was always just smoke and mirrors. The only appreciable difference between the other teams he's played on and his former team was BB had Tommy.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

In my opinion, it was Ty Law.

Sounds like him.

I could see him saying all that with a grin on his face and a chucke.

He is a rascal.

The part about the high draft picks in particular sounds like something he would say. His style of phrasing, and calling them horrible. Plus he had to be there through out the run, and he was.

Just sounds like him to me. His gift for overstating things. A man has to eat.

The rookies didn't slander the rookies, in my opinon. Branch and Givens wouldn't focus on calling fellow draft picks horrible. They don't talk like that, and neither does Andruzzi or Adam Vinateri.

Lawyer wasn't around for the draft picks.

Ty law. And his gift for gab.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

You guys are missing some likely suspects.
Christan Fauria
Monty Bissel
Ted Washington
The turd D-Back who played for the Colts last year

The secret is to find a name who won but wasn't retained. Maybe Keith Trailor? Maybe Bethel Johnson?

My guess is that Ty Law or Lawyer Malloy wouldn't care that their names were used in the story, so this guy wants to cover his ass in case he gets a chance to come back someday, or has friends on the team still. Reading the story I believe that the "source" wasn't a starter, or lost his position to somebody else. The thing is, not many people leave here with bad feelings. Drew Bledsoe is a possibility, but he doesn't stike me as a guy who would throw bombs when he doesn't have to. Pro Football Talk will find out who it was eventually and post his name.

The thing is, even if it is fiction, the players on the Patsies are better behaved than most other teams, and they know how to win better than any other team in the league.

My personal guess is Bethel, but who knows.

 

[Dragda]

My bet is it's the whiney ex-Patriot kicker

If it is the kicker, the Manning vs. Brady debate is finished. They quote him saying they do the same thing as other teams they just have Tom Brady. If Manning's teammates are saying that, then the debate is over.

I don't think its him.

 

[Wretch]

Personally I think it was Zeke Mowatt

 

[threepeater]

what about Vinatieri?

 

[Hoodie]

I think it was Christian Fauria. he was articulate and always ready with a comment for the media.

 

[Danny Boy®]

It was #28 locker.

Scratch that...I just read the whole thing.

 

[marty]

It was the Pepsi machine!