Should the Pats bring Brandon Lloyd back?

[Froob]

Sorry....but fitzgerald wouldn't be another ochostinko...

True but, I can almost guarantee first time he drops a pass someone here will claim he is and will say we'd be much better off with Tiquan Underwood.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

True but, I can almost guarantee first time he drops a pass someone here will claim he is and will say we'd be much better off with Tiquan Underwood.

the person who says that would either be A: a moron or B: a pink hat

 

[mgteich]

If the poll didn't include the word "absolutely" the numbers would limey be different.

It's interesting that only 1 out of every 6.2 or so posters definitely don't want him back. I expected it to be a bit higher than that.

I think a major concern is that there aren't many realistic options, and out of those few options the money is going to be more. It's definitely a gamble of sorts.

 

[ALP]

Sorry....but fitzgerald wouldn't be another ochostinko...

That's nice, that's part 1

Part 2?....back it up

 

[tonyto3690]

That's nice, that's part 1

Part 2?....back it up

I'm not sure what your point is, but ignoring the fact Fitz is a completely unrealistic target, there is no way Fitz would do anything but have success here. Fitz is one of the premier WRs in the NFL and is in his prime.

It's really a shame he signed that behemoth contract with the Cardinals. Could have had something special here in New England and still likely made the same amount of money with the unending publicity he'd get here as a demi-god and a significantly better chance at the HOF with Brady throwing him the ball as opposed to the wasteland of Arizona where his prime is being thrown away.

 

[SwedishPat]

Lets say this: what are the chances that a reciever (any WR in the league) comes in here and can learn the system in one offseason? Lloyd did it pretty well, Ocho couldn't learn anything.....and when was the last time a rookie WR produced for us?

My point being, eve. If we signa Wallace, or a Fitz, or draft the best WRs in the draft, they may all be another Ochocinco

Bring back Lloyd, no matter how the Wes situation results...and use him properly, which the staff really did not

If Fitzgerald became another Ocho here, then that would be much more of a sign that the system is crap than anything else. I'm not saying that it is crap. But if a very good receiver would get less than 20 catches in it, then that would be a very bad system.

 

[supafly]

I don't even know if Fitz or C.Johnson would be realistic options here even if they were available.

Paying a WR 15 million dollars a season tends to really limit you in other key areas of your team building process.

Notice how neither Fitz or C.Johnson don't really make their teams all that successful as a whole? That's the biggest reason.

 

[supafly]

Sorry....but fitzgerald wouldn't be another ochostinko...

I get what the poster is concerned about as many good WRs tend to be a gamble of sorts coming into this system, but I also agree with you that Fitz certainly doesn't fall into that category.

He is one of those special WRs that offers the full package. They don't come around very often. The problem is that they are just so inaffordable that you can't even really give it all that much thought. He'd have to agree to come here for about 9 million dollars, and that probably won't ever happen.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I don't even know if Fitz or C.Johnson would be realistic options here even if they were available.

Paying a WR 15 million dollars a season tends to really limit you in other key areas of your team building process.

Notice how neither Fitz or C.Johnson don't really make their teams all that successful as a whole? That's the biggest reason.

problem is Fitz has had ****ty RBs and Qbs throwing to him as of late

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

He knows the system. He makes difficult catches. He comes at a reasonable price. Of course, he has his flaws. But unless BB is certain he can find someone better at a price that will not break the bank, Lloyd should stay.

And did I mention, he is the only WR other than STer Slater under team control. Too many WRs needed to discard the one known quantity.

 

[supafly]

problem is Fitz has had ****ty RBs and Qbs throwing to him as of late

Even if Fitz would have had the season that C.Johnson just had, that really wouldn't have made their team that much better. It's insanely hard to build a team around a 15+ million dollar per year wide receiver and a franchise QB. There's just too much money locked up in that duo alone. You're looking at more than 1/4 of the salary cap on one connection of 2 players. C.Johnson just set records for a WR this year...but his team as a whole only won a handful of games all season. They may be able to go to the playoffs at some point, but it's going to be very hard for them to do it on a consistent basis.

I'm not saying Fitz isn't a great WR. I think he's possibly once in a lifetime and maybe the best to currently play right now. What I'm saying is that I'm not 100% convinced that he'd even be an option if he were a FA this year, based on the fact that he's so insanely expensive. I think the only way Belichick would actually pursue Fitzgerald is if he agreed to come here for around 10 million or so, and then Belichick may not be able to pass it up. Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen.

You just can't effectively build a solid roster in the salary cap era with a WR like that due to cost. You may go far in the playoffs once out of luck (on a 9-7 record), but you won't have the room for a consistent winner like we currently do now. It's one of the reasons why the best CB in the game (arguably Revis) will be putting the same limitations on his team. It's hard to pay someone 14-15 million per year, especially if they aren't your QB who is going to cost the same if not more. I actually think that SF may be able to pull it off, but that's simply because they lucked out and developed a low cost rookie pact franchise QB via the draft. That will change when Kaepernick's deal is up.

Again, this is just my opinion and you may feel differently, but I can tell you that we've discussed this issue plenty of times in the past and the capologists on this forum agree with me entirely. I'd love to have a player like that, but he'd have to come on a reasonable deal. It's all about the value. That is Belichick's formula. Hopefully we see him stick to that while still addressing our needs this offseason.

 

[ALP]

I'm not sure what your point is, but ignoring the fact Fitz is a completely unrealistic target, there is no way Fitz would do anything but have success here. Fitz is one of the premier WRs in the NFL and is in his prime.

It's really a shame he signed that behemoth contract with the Cardinals. Could have had something special here in New England and still likely made the same amount of money with the unending publicity he'd get here as a demi-god and a significantly better chance at the HOF with Brady throwing him the ball as opposed to the wasteland of Arizona where his prime is being thrown away.

Back it up as in prove it, as in use some type of evidence of your opinion, for example: why would Fitz absolutely work in our system is the question, and some of us need more than "just because" to accept an argument

 

[JoeSixPat]

He knows the system. He makes difficult catches. He comes at a reasonable price. Of course, he has his flaws. But unless BB is certain he can find someone better at a price that will not break the bank, Lloyd should stay.

And did I mention, he is the only WR other than STer Slater under team control. Too many WRs needed to discard the one known quantity.

Some seem stuck on the "better than Lloyd but at the same or lower price"

Belichick won't be stuck on that - if there's a chance to upgrade he will consider using Lloyd's $3 million plus some of Brady's cap savings if he thinks it's worth it

Caldwell was our #1 WR costing a whopping $1 million. Belichick brought in more expensive but better players and replaced him. He could do the same thing with Lloyd

 

[supafly]

Some seem stuck on the "better than Lloyd but at the same or lower price"

Belichick won't be stuck on that - if there's a chance to upgrade he will consider using Lloyd's $3 million plus some of Brady's cap savings if he thinks it's worth it

Caldwell was our #1 WR costing a whopping $1 million. Belichick brought in more expensive but better players and replaced him. He could do the same thing with Lloyd

I agree. The problem I see is that there don't seem to be too many realistic candidates out there that would fall between the Llyod salary and that of something reasonable. I don't think we're going all the way up to the top tiers of WR FA's, do you? This is also all taking into acct the fact that we re-sign Wes Welker.

 

[Raymond]

Even if Fitz would have had the season that C.Johnson just had, that really wouldn't have made their team that much better. It's insanely hard to build a team around a 15+ million dollar per year wide receiver and a franchise QB. There's just too much money locked up in that duo alone. You're looking at more than 1/4 of the salary cap on one connection of 2 players. C.Johnson just set records for a WR this year...but his team as a whole only won a handful of games all season. They may be able to go to the playoffs at some point, but it's going to be very hard for them to do it on a consistent basis.

I'm not saying Fitz isn't a great WR. I think he's possibly once in a lifetime and maybe the best to currently play right now. What I'm saying is that I'm not 100% convinced that he'd even be an option if he were a FA this year, based on the fact that he's so insanely expensive. I think the only way Belichick would actually pursue Fitzgerald is if he agreed to come here for around 10 million or so, and then Belichick may not be able to pass it up. Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen.

You just can't effectively build a solid roster in the salary cap era with a WR like that due to cost. You may go far in the playoffs once out of luck (on a 9-7 record), but you won't have the room for a consistent winner like we currently do now. It's one of the reasons why the best CB in the game (arguably Revis) will be putting the same limitations on his team. It's hard to pay someone 14-15 million per year, especially if they aren't your QB who is going to cost the same if not more. I actually think that SF may be able to pull it off, but that's simply because they lucked out and developed a low cost rookie pact franchise QB via the draft. That will change when Kaepernick's deal is up.

Again, this is just my opinion and you may feel differently, but I can tell you that we've discussed this issue plenty of times in the past and the capologists on this forum agree with me entirely. I'd love to have a player like that, but he'd have to come on a reasonable deal. It's all about the value. That is Belichick's formula. Hopefully we see him stick to that while still addressing our needs this offseason.

Excellent post Supa.

 

[nzahir]

I think the pats should bring lloyd back if they start to use him in the right way, I was watching a lot of his highlights today and wondered why he barely ever threw him any deep routes because he can make some spectacular catches(though his speed is just above average). The only way I think we let him go is if the pats can get a guy like heyward bey if he is cut. I really think drafting tavon austin and a wr like da rick rodgers and keeping lloyd and then spending the money on defense would be much better than lloyd and welker and drafting a guy like rodgers.

 

[DocHoliday]

Should the Pats bring Lloyd back?

I think the pats should bring lloyd back if they start to use him in the right way, I was watching a lot of his highlights today and wondered why he barely ever threw him any deep routes because he can make some spectacular catches(though his speed is just above average). The only way I think we let him go is if the pats can get a guy like heyward bey if he is cut. I really think drafting tavon austin and a wr like da rick rodgers and keeping lloyd and then spending the money on defense would be much better than lloyd and welker and drafting a guy like rodgers.

Thing is Brady doesn't want to throw the low percentage highlight catches. He rightly prefers high percentage boring throws because that's the best way to avoid INTs

 

[supafly]

Thing is Brady doesn't want to throw the low percentage highlight catches. He rightly prefers high percentage boring throws because that's the best way to avoid INTs

Yep. It's also the best way to get rid of the ball quickest, take advantage of that small time frame where Welker has a step in the first grouping of seconds, milk the clock and TOP in a small ball/running style game, and it also can hide any weaknesses on the offensive line. As you said it lowers the turnover rate, and he doesn't have to force the ball into any one player (memories of Moss in his later yrs).

 

[supafly]

I think the pats should bring lloyd back if they start to use him in the right way, I was watching a lot of his highlights today and wondered why he barely ever threw him any deep routes because he can make some spectacular catches(though his speed is just above average). The only way I think we let him go is if the pats can get a guy like heyward bey if he is cut.

They'll have to make that decision before March 16th as he is due a 3 million dollar bonus. Once they pay that they'll be committing to 2/3rds of his pay for the entire year, so he'll be staying if they pay that.

That would in theory give them 3-4 days of free agency before they'd have to decide.

I really think drafting tavon austin and a wr like da rick rodgers and keeping lloyd and then spending the money on defense would be much better than lloyd and welker and drafting a guy like rodgers.

So you'd rather take your chances with unproven rookies than continue the success of the record setting offense with Wes Welker? Hmmm...

Let me guess, you are one of those guys who thinks our inability to win the SB lately is due to having a field stretcher, right?

One thing to keep in mind is that Tavon Austin is a quick rising prospect who's ability to run a 4.34 last week helped him tremendously. He'll never be around when we pick at #29. He probably won't make it out of the early 20's, so you can pretty much cross him off your list.

 

[chevss454]

Thing is Brady doesn't want to throw the low percentage highlight catches. He rightly prefers high percentage boring throws because that's the best way to avoid INTs

Yep. It's also the best way to get rid of the ball quickest, take advantage of that small time frame where Welker has a step in the first grouping of seconds, milk the clock and TOP in a small ball/running style game, and it also can hide any weaknesses on the offensive line. As you said it lowers the turnover rate, and he doesn't have to force the ball into any one player (memories of Moss in his later yrs).

Everything you're both saying is true and it's a great way to move the ball down the field methodically to a score. But it's a front running mentality. It works very well so long as the Pats are winning or not behind too much. The problem I see is the Pats don't have the explosive quick strike threat to score quickly when needed the most. Opponents know the formula to beat the Pats is to play nickel, pack the middle and give Lloyd single coverage. Lloyd couldn't pull additional coverage his way to help open the middle. That to me is his biggest failing.

Many here want to point to Lloyd's production as the reason to keep him. It should be pointed out that Lloyd had 1/2 his total production for the year in just 4 games. All were losses. What I saw was that when good defenses packed the middle with the lead, when the Pats needed him most, he wasn't able to lead them to victory.

The Pats need an X receiver with speed as an outside threat to pull coverage for the short passing game to continue to be successful. (And with a healthy Gronk, it would be wildly sucessful.)

They'll have to make that decision before March 16th as he is due a 3 million dollar bonus. Once they pay that they'll be committing to 2/3rds of his pay for the entire year, so he'll be staying if they pay that.

That would in theory give them 3-4 days of free agency before they'd have to decide.

Plus the additional 3 days before free agency begins of legal tampering.
edit: Negotiations w/ FAs can begin on March 9th.