Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by ctpatsfan77, Feb 27, 2013.
Mods: feel free to merge with one of the other threads, but I figured I'd ask the question.
to me, it would depend on a few things:
- if welker is re-signed, then take a step in the 'no' direction
- if lloyd is as much a bummer in the locker room as being publicised, another step in the 'no' direction.
but if the pats are resigning welker and are looking at someone like wallace, then it's already over
I have no idea how bad the issues are with him but i hope he comes back. If he is gone it leaves us kind of thin.
I buy the argument that the release is related to attitude and work ethic and don't think he should be in NE if that is the case.
I went with "Absolutely Not" though that's a little bit of a strong position for a guy who caught 74 passes and isn't costing a lot of money.
Although I was much more interested in Wallace as a deep threat last year, outside of these troubling reports of Lloyd as a poor locker room presence, I don't consider him a failure, given the low cost.
But when you have a guy as cheap as Lloyd and hear these reports - and you have Brady freeing up $15 million to "win now" - you have to feel a strong need to provide Brady with what he's lacked for the last several seasons - a strong vertical threat.
Ironically that may wind up being someone like Wallace - who's dollar value dropped over last season and will no longer require the additional loss of draft picks.
So if they're going to swap Lloyd for a true deep threat, then I'm all for him being let go - and I get the strong sense that's exactly what Belichick has planned.
If it does wind up being Wallace, there's a lot of folks here who will be eating crow over the Lloyd/Wallace debate last year and about the Patriots not needing a deep threat - but from my perspective it's clear that Belichick knows Brady's game would benefit with someone who will stretch the field more than Lloyd did.
If the reports about him not being a good guy in the locker room is correct, then absolutely not bring him back. If they aren't correct, bring him back. He isn't too expensive and 900+ yards is not bad. It's not like we are loaded at the wr position either.
Let me understand the folks who absolutely want Lloyd back. Presume that we re-sign Welker and Edelman in the next couple of weeks and expect to use one of our top 2 draft picks on a wide receiver.
Why is Lloyd worth $5M of new money (and $3M next year). Is there no one else who MIGHT stretch the field better, have a higher YAC average and/or fit our needs better for $4M a year or for a bit more?
Please look over the current FA list. Then get back to us with the names of all the players on it that you think will be better than Lloyd, for no more than the $5 million.
I leave the choice of "better" to Belichick. If he can't find someone in the first week who is a better fit than Lloyd, then he'll pay Lloyd's option. It is by no means automatic.
Also, Belichick is not restricted to paying only $5M: a couple of more in AAV works fine. After all, I presume that Welker's is essentially a 2 year contract. The additional WR's contract could be structured so that the near term cap impact is small.
In fact, if Belichick is willing, a top wide receiver could be signed with an acceptable cap hit. Much can be said for signing a 5 year contract with a top receiver.
The question is whether Belichick is willing to sign long-term help at this key position.
So you bagged on people who looked at the current landscape and said absolutely, and you did it without any real alternate plans. Seems your position is far more questionable than theirs at this stage.
Bring back the beast!
Welker has to be re-signed or the Pats have real problems. I think Lloyd
should be retained until the Pats have a better alternative talent wise.
I'm surprised that so many people do not know the current value of WRs.
Deon Branch signed a 5 mil./yr. contract back in 2006. Pierre Garcon signed
a 8.5 mil./yr. last year. Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, and Vincent Jackson are in the 14-18 mil. catagory.
I voted maybe because absolutely yes is a bit too strong for how I feel. I lean that way because he proved he can produce in our system, something that has been increasingly rare lately. Without him the patriots are potentially dangerously thin at the position. So assuming the locker room issue is overblown I want him back. If they aren't overblown and he really is impossible to work with then no I want his money to go to somebody else. So without being in the locker room and knowing how that dynamic actually works I can not give an honest opinion.
Reject my plan if you must.
A) Sign Welker.
B) Sign Edelman.
C) Make a few dozen calls in the first week of free agency and then make a decision on Lloyd. Of course, this has already been done (but that would be illegal).
D) Sign a WR to replace Lloyd if we decide not to pay his option, which option may be a major upgrade or simply a better fitting wide receiver.
E) Bring in a dozen WR's for camp competition.
F) Draft a wide receiver or two.
I guess it depends on what's going on behind the scenes, which we just don't know at this point. It will be virtually impossible to replace his production for what he makes, so the only way that dropping him makes sense is if he's such a headache that the team views it as addition by subtraction.
Seems strange that that would be the case, since it's not like he was an unknown quantity when he came here. He and McDaniels aren't exactly strangers - you'd think that McD would know that he was a headcase, if in fact he is one.
i want him back..where are you going to find that production for that cheap? Won't find it this FA for that $$...sucks
I don't know how easy it will be for him to get another job. He might be willing to renegotiate eliminating the 3 mil. bonus. This would eliminate any
risk for the pPatriots.
Lloyd already signed below market, and after his performance this year someone will pay if the Pats won't.
The whole point is that his issues must be pretty f-ing bad if they'd drive the team to make a decision that isn't football smart on the surface... I'll say let him go.
Do we have any idea when the option bonus is due? Because don't forget this year the NFL added a 3 day period before official start of FA at4pm on March 12. That teams can negotiate with free agents just can't sign until 4pm on the 12th.
Again, unless you've got names, you've got nothing and your plan is garbage. It's easy to say "replace X in free agency". The question is who you replace him with.
Should the Pats bring Lloyd back?
I have a question, where is stallworth going, he provided the deep threat on the Texans and cashed in a TD?
OK, your position is simply ignorant or obtuse. To believe that looking for an upgrade during the first week is a non-starter because I don't know who Belichick will want is simply ridiculous. Personally, I think arguing about specific free agents may be fun for some, but not for me. I am interested in which positions we should upgrade and how much we are willing to spend, and the timing of when we must make decisions. I take the same position with regard to the draft. I usually don't discuss players; rather I focus on positions and trading picks.
There are at least a dozen players who will be available who Belichick may believe is a substitute for Lloyd and who might be willing to sign at an amount within Belichick's budget. Just go to any list and take the top twenty. Obviously, some will not be available. Obviously Belichick will judge that some will not be a good fit.
I do NOT know the seriousness of the team's issues with Lloyd. If they are serious, he's gone, period. I do NOT know who will be available when free agency starts. There will be tags and re-signs in the next couple of weeks. I do NOT know who will be willing to sign at a within-budget/value contract. I do NOT know who will fit best.
What I do know is that we should sign Welker and Edelman, draft a top receiver or two, and bring in a dozen low-level free agent wide receivers.
THE LLOYD DECISION IS NOT ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE UNTIL BELICHICK CHECKS OUT THE MARKET.
No, what was ignorant or obtuse was your response towards those who voted "absolutely", when there was no regular "yes" option. I was just pointing out one reason why. That reply led to to reject your plan, not Belichick's.
Yet you can't name a single one that fits your own criteria and is currently available.....
Welker and moss were trades, so.....
When was the last time the BB era Patriots brought in a free agent who had a more productive season than lloyd? How many such players have there been in the BB era?
Right on MG.
People here act like Lloyd has the midas touch or something. Foolishness. Brandon Gibson would be worth a look and theres always surprise cuts around the NFL.
Brandon Gibson Brandon Gibson, WR, Free Agent
Steve Breaston Steve Breaston, WR, Free Agent
Josh Cribbs Joshua Cribbs, WR, Free Agent
Would you give a 1st for Cruz? No more deep threat issues.
Victor Cruz Victor Cruz, WR, New York Giants
Brian Hartline if he ever comes down from his crack high.
Brian Hartline, WR, Free Agent
Mohamed Massaquoi Mohamed Massaquoi, WR, Free Agent
Kevin Ogletree Kevin Ogletree, WR, Dallas Cowboys
How about a 3rd for Emmanuel Sanders?
Emmanuel Sanders, WR, Pittsburgh Steelers
KFFL - 2013 NFL Free Agents
This isn't a reasonable post Deus. It seems to me that you're on the warpath of late.
Whilst I agree that having an identified replacement by name is preferential, mgteich's forwarding of a plan is reasonable. Filling it out with the details as they come to light isn't a difficult task.
If Lloyd is so productive then why is he packing his bags?
Should the Pats bring Lloyd back?
Relatively speaking? David patten
But then again, they never really tried
I think there's more to it though......4 of his 5 best games were losses.....he average 40 ypg in wins and most of the time was invisible. Ocho would have done as much if they threw to him that many times.
There's a reason he's been with 5 teams.....
Bring in breaston and get more for less
I'm not on the warpath at all, and his "plan" was in response to his bashing those who'd voted absolutely when there was no simple "yes/no" option in the poll. His "plan" has a provision for which he can not give one example.
It's easy to say "Just replace Lloyd with someone who'll be better for the same price". That's not really a plan. That's a wish. They're still trying to replace Samuel, Seymour, Moss etc....
Separate names with a comma.